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[grahoom]

I maintain that there are certain things that government is incapable of legislating to do. For example, the silly suggestion earlier that government could make it law that we must kill our children.

 

dave, what are you views on the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill ?

[greywolf]

one commentator on these type of things said that we need to beware sleepwalking into a totalitarian state. It does not necessary happen all at once but little by little.The overpowering unions of a few years ago were legislated against to such a extent that strike action is almost impossible now.That they needed curbing to some extent was evident but in such a draconian way?We have no rights in this country that could not be taken away from us were it not for people prepared to fight for them. Not to get to extream , an example of this would be the suggestion that we could be forced to vote in elections,and compulsory savings for retirement. In themselves minor infringements of our liberties but they have been seriously suggested.

[Chertsey]

Yes, really.

 

 

I maintain that there are certain things that government is incapable of legislating to do. For example, the silly suggestion earlier that government could make it law that we must kill our children.

 

OK, this is a very extreme example. But the fact remains that there is nothing legally preventing the government from introducing even a law such as this. The fact that they won't is down to a range of other factors, but entrenched rights and freedoms isn't one of them.

 

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and the greatest threat to it is complacency.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

Yes, really.

 

It is odd that those who seek to prove me wrong here are quick to wheel out examples of things that have been taken away. I never suggested that there was an entrenched right to sit in fields saying NO.

 

I maintain that there are certain things that government is incapable of legislating to do. For example, the silly suggestion earlier that government could make it law that we must kill our children.

 

So, it doesn't matter that our entrenched freedoms have been eroded to the point they're at now because they won't be erroded any more, is that really what I'm getting from you Dave?

 

And it's a silly idea that the government could enforce a one child legislation is it? All it would take is maybe a single generation brought up with the media blaring about overpopulation and the problems it's causing. Raising a scare about food shortages and job shortages and housing shortages before the government could say, "we have an emergency" and people like you would say "by all means save us".

 

Before you lost your right to protest the people thought they'd always have that right. Before you lost your right to privacy the people though they'd always have that right too. Yet here you are. Suddenly the rights you have lost "weren't the entrenched ones".

 

The government can take whatever they please from you if you don't dare disobey.

[grahoom]

But the fact remains that there is nothing legally preventing the government from introducing even a law such as this.

 

Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill ?

[Jason Wilson and Family]

Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill ?

 

From what I understand that bill could have ended democracy in the UK were it not for the number of citizens who stood up against it. The information I'm looking at is from 2006 so all I know at this point is it got much better but still had some problems.

[grahoom]

From what I understand that bill could have ended democracy in the UK were it not for the number of citizens who stood up against it. The information I'm looking at is from 2006 so all I know at this point is it got much better but still had some problems.

 

My main point about the Bill is how this Current Government is working, and how it is essentially trying (as far as I can see) to erode what freedoms we have as a "democracy". I don't think anyone will be suprised at my general lack of trust with the current UK Government (and to be honest any government...)

[Jason Wilson and Family]

My main point about the Bill is how this Current Government is working, and how it is essentially trying (as far as I can see) to erode what freedoms we have as a "democracy". I don't think anyone will be suprised at my general lack of trust with the current UK Government (and to be honest any government...)

 

Absolutely, I'd never heard of it until now but the bill would have given them frightening powers of abuse.

[mayalld]

dave, what are you views on the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill ?

 

Its aims seem fine. I would have to study it in more detail to comment further about whether it has hidden dangers.

[grahoom]

Its aims seem fine. I would have to study it in more detail to comment further about whether it has hidden dangers.

 

 

The original "draft" proposal, thankfully, is quite different to the one that was passed.

[mayalld]

The original "draft" proposal, thankfully, is quite different to the one that was passed.

 

So, the system worked?

[grahoom]

So, the system worked?

 

I am not sure, you tell me.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

So, the system worked?

 

If by system you mean people who didn't accept that the government makes the rules and fought to have it changed or blocked altogether then yes.

 

If you instead mean the government looking out for its people and respecting your 'entrenched' rights then no.

Edited October 24, 2008 by Jason Wilson and Family

[grahoom]

So, the system worked?

 

Really, my main worry is that there seems to be a trend that means that there is less and less debate before a law is passed.

Personally, I feel the little bit of democracy that we pretend to have, is slowly getting swallowed up.

 

soon we will have passed full control over to those who are in "power" - which I feel is quite worrying.

[carlt]

Really, my main worry is that there seems to be a trend that means that there is less and less debate before a law is passed.

Personally, I feel the little bit of democracy that we pretend to have, is slowly getting swallowed up.

 

soon we will have passed full control over to those who are in "power" - which I feel is quite worrying.

But there is always the opportunity, at the next election..............................yes, I see what you mean, Graham.

[SteveE]

But there is always the opportunity, at the next election..............................yes, I see what you mean, Graham.

 

But does anybody have any confidence that any other party in power would behave significantly differently? I certainly don't!

SteveE

[mayalld]

If by system you mean people who didn't accept that the government makes the rules and fought to have it changed or blocked altogether then yes.

 

If you instead mean the government looking out for its people and respecting your 'entrenched' rights then no.

 

You persist in misrepresenting me.

 

I am all in favour of fighting against changes that I believe to be bad changes. I just believe that I should remain within the law whilst doing so.

[grahoom]

I am all in favour of fighting against changes that I believe to be bad changes. I just believe that I should remain within the law whilst doing so.

 

nothing wrong with that at all. Problem is when the laws change, and you are unaware of the changes.

 

After all the current government have brought in around 3600 new offences since 1997... It's hard to keep abreast with the law these days.

Edited October 24, 2008 by grahoom

[Jason Wilson and Family]

You persist in misrepresenting me.

 

I am all in favour of fighting against changes that I believe to be bad changes. I just believe that I should remain within the law whilst doing so.

 

I am not attempting to misrepresent you at all Dave, as Grahoom says, the changes aren't always easy to track. Had they managed to get in the original version of that bill, they could change the law with no debate, no warning and start picking people up for it.

 

The point we are trying to make is that when your government goes out of control you will have to break their laws to regain balance and order.

Edited October 24, 2008 by Jason Wilson and Family

[carlt]

But does anybody have any confidence that any other party in power would behave significantly differently? I certainly don't!

SteveE

My tongue in cheek smiley failed to appear.

[Chertsey]

You persist in misrepresenting me.

 

I am all in favour of fighting against changes that I believe to be bad changes. I just believe that I should remain within the law whilst doing so.

What if they change the law to make whatever you are doing illegal? (Plenty of precedents for that). And the next thing? And the next?

[boatchad]

I am all in favour of fighting against changes that I believe to be bad changes. I just believe that I should remain within the law whilst doing so.

 

Fine and amirable if only the authorities would remain within the law! I was around during the miners strike, what an eye opener that was. Up until then I felt exactly as you do Dave, I believed in the system but I was forced to grow up very rapidly.

 

If they would stay within the law as I did I would play by their rules, but they didn't, they don't so why should I bother.

[MartinClark]

Sorry to interrupt this exhilarating discussion by returning to the so-called Snitch Page again, but....

 

BW has finally mentioned the online checker in a press release. As several of you have been somewhat opposed to the whole idea, you may be interested to hear what they have to say about it:

 

Denise Yelland, BW’s enforcement manager, comments: “Traditionally, many people have been writing or telephoning BW with reports of potentially unlicensed boats – reports which need individually investigating and responding to. The online checker will therefore save quite a bit of BW staff time allowing our enforcement teams to prioritise those that are actually unlicensed.

 

“Ad hoc reporting by those cruising the network will supplement our automated systems and the efforts of our enforcement teams. During one month this summer, these resulted in a record recovery of almost £290k of backdated and overdue licence fee income.

 

“Of the first couple of dozen reports submitted via the boat checker, one revealed the current location of a boat which we had lost sight of after serving a Section 8 notice on it – so a particularly useful piece of information.”

 

And further licence enforcement actions are set to follow. A date has been set for the introduction of the Late Payment Charge which was announced earlier in 2008. People whose boat licence is more than one month out of date on 1st April 2009 will have to pay an extra £150 for their renewal.

 

‘License it or Lose it’ can be found at www.britishwaterways.co.uk/license-it.

[magnetman]

Thank You for that interesting and relevant piece of information, it makes a refreshing change.

[Chertsey]

People whose boat licence is more than one month out of date on 1st April 2009 will have to pay an extra £150 for their renewal.

How will this impact upon boats whose licences have legitimately been allowed to lapse because they haven't been on BW waters?