Grossly Excessive speed

[Machpoint005]

Did the old working boats slow down for moored boats? 20 tons of coal would have made quite a wash (worse than 20 tons of feathers apparently) but I doubt the commercial constraints would have allowed for such niceties.

What moored boats? Surely in the commercial heyday of the network, all the boats were out earning a living - unless they were being loaded or unloaded, in which case a bit of rocking was only to be expected.

[WJM]

At jetties and wharves, places like Bulls Bridge perhaps where up to 20 pairs could be waiting at any one time?

[Grace and Favour]

Why?

 

Unless you intend to behave in an inconsiderate manner, you will find me extremely convivial.

 

 

Mayalld - - I was solely referring to Larkshall . . for I am always a considerate canal user, whether on foot or not! . .

 

Now - should Larkshall's comment about HB bastards indeed be tongue in cheek - - then I did (very easily) misread his observation . . .

 

and admonish him - gently :lol:

Edited August 1, 2008 by Grace & Favour

[Big Steve]

I'm all for people NOT speeding, but the limit is 4mph. Not exactly speeding is it? Carl's good at arithmatic, perhaps he could calculate the difference in disturbance between 2, 3 and 4 mph?

 

Here on the Aire and Calder the limit is 6mph and there are 500 tonne petrol tankers going by regularily. They don't slow for anyone and I've never heard any complaints about broken mooring pins or crockery.

[alan_fincher]

Here on the Aire and Calder the limit is 6mph and there are 500 tonne petrol tankers going by regularily. They don't slow for anyone and I've never heard any complaints about broken mooring pins or crockery.

Possibly the A & C is a trifle wider and deeper than at some of the locations where people are having problems ?

 

That said, I repeat we have been out for over a week now, with moderately intensive days, and have yet to see any problems with speeds past moored boats. I have noticed I have to slow down a great deal more on some bits of the latest canals than I am used to elsewhere, however....... (This is why any formula about a number of mph or rpm is meaningless.....)

 

Alan

 

(Just short of Stourport - Staffs & Worcs - A truly beautiful canal, and with very little traffic......)

[magnetman]

Possibly the A & C is a trifle wider and deeper than at some of the locations where people are having problems ?

 

That said, I repeat we have been out for over a week now, with moderately intensive days, and have yet to see any problems with speeds past moored boats. I have noticed I have to slow down a great deal more on some bits of the latest canals than I am used to elsewhere, however....... (This is why any formula about a number of mph or rpm is meaningless.....)

 

Alan

 

(Just short of Stourport - Staffs & Worcs - A truly beautiful canal, and with very little traffic......)

 

I LIKE this expression.

[Big Steve]

Possibly the A & C is a trifle wider and deeper than at some of the locations where people are having problems ?

 

Yes , it's at least 7' deep and 40' wide on the bits I've used. The bow wave arrives a good 10 minutes before one of these tankers shows up

[saltysplash]

I'm all for people NOT speeding, but the limit is 4mph. Not exactly speeding is it? Carl's good at arithmatic, perhaps he could calculate the difference in disturbance between 2, 3 and 4 mph?

 

Here on the Aire and Calder the limit is 6mph and there are 500 tonne petrol tankers going by regularily. They don't slow for anyone and I've never heard any complaints about broken mooring pins or crockery.

 

Although the spped limit is 4mph, rarely do most narrow boats reach that due to shallow depth and narrows, any increase in revs digs the stern further in, wake increases and a breaking wash is the result. Easing back on the revs till the wash no longer breaks will result in the max speed for that particular stretch.

 

On the Tidal Medway at Chatham, depth at high tide is appx 10 mtrs. The large shipping using this stretch to Rochester generally kept to the 6 knt speed limit with no wash at all...in fact the only indication something so big was going past was the noise of the engines. smaller vessels, however, all created a wake which would bounce the moored boats and pontoon around like a bouncy thing....tugs seemed to be the worst with their chubby displacment hulls.

 

Only once did we have a problem with a ship going too fast...it was a Russian flagged vessel and the waves from its wake were so high, they followed down the length of my boat till they found the open scuttle in the rear cabin and then poored into the cabin with the force of a high pressure hose drenching the bed in sea water.

[Lingy]

Maybe BW will eventually get fecked off with complaints about speeders on the cut and install gatsos

 

[Bones]

I LIKE this expression.

 

 

I abhor moderate and intense. Relaxing and lazy is the new black (will someone PLEASE persuade Janet and RJ for our trip on the Rochdale!!!!!!!! )

[purplehaze]

Everyone

 

Can we just accept that 'speeding boats' are both private and hire boats and that there are good hire boats and private boats that respect the need to slow down past moored boats.

Julie

[NB Alnwick]

It has been said before but it is worth repeating: Many of us were attracted to the inland waterways because it offered a calm, unhurried and pleasant lifestyle. Sadly just as everywhere else in society, the canals now seem to be attracted a sector that want to get everywhere in a hurry, enjoy embarrassing others by using foul language, see no wrong in being rude and inconsiderate (at all times) and, above all, enjoy forcing their oathish and bullying lifestyle on the rest of us.

 

My only hope is that they will soon find that the waterways lack the stimulation that they demand and that they all will return to their noisy cars and race round the M25 instead . . .

[Hairy-Neil]

.....and race round the M25 instead . . .

 

Now that is an oxymoron.....

[Teakbank12]

Everyone

 

Can we just accept that 'speeding boats' are both private and hire boats and that there are good hire boats and private boats that respect the need to slow down past moored boats.

Julie

 

We were parked up at Campbell park in Milton Keynes yesterday afternoon after having shopped for a few hours.

It was weird watching boats go by without us being on one.

Whilst watching this activity we have to say both Wyvern boats passed the moored boats at a very slow pace whilst a private boat did not slow down at all & caused the line of boats to rock considerably.

[Bojangles]

It has been said before but it is worth repeating: Many of us were attracted to the inland waterways because it offered a calm, unhurried and pleasant lifestyle. Sadly just as everywhere else in society, the canals now seem to be attracted a sector that want to get everywhere in a hurry, enjoy embarrassing others by using foul language, see no wrong in being rude and inconsiderate (at all times) and, above all, enjoy forcing their oathish and bullying lifestyle on the rest of us.

 

My only hope is that they will soon find that the waterways lack the stimulation that they demand and that they all will return to their noisy cars and race round the M25 instead . . .

 

Well said :lol:

[Smelly]

Why I am always late to a party?

 

I've had a vehement tupennerth elsewhere, and not feeling so vehement I will simply say this; slow down or I'll shout at you. "You're not moored properly" is, as a famed forum member once said "spheres" even on big punds the level changes overnight and you find yourself slack, then some berk comes flying past. Otherwise, yes, it's a nice spot, 3 or 4 pins in, using springs, but the grounds a bit soggy and you're glad that that you've got two lines left after that berk went past.

 

When you're doing your job you expect some inconvenience, so loaded boats tearing past is par for the course and you don't mind as it'll be you tearing past someone else once you've a load , but we're not carrying anymore and some of us at least are chilling out, but that is sadly and all to frequently spoiled by the people without the courtesy to consider others.

 

It'd be interesting to know whether those complaining abut Dave's pleadings for common courtesy ever have to moor on line, or whether they spend 50 weeks a year on a marina then hop from basin to basin.

[mykaskin]

Just going back to the original post...

 

You don't need people to go past fast to pull mooring posts out if a boat is tied improperly. I'm not suggesting that this was the case in this instance, but the smallest amount of slack on the rope means that the boat pulls on the ropes which in turn causes more slack, and pins to bend, or work themselves free allowing more slack. It then doesn't take as much to finally pull the pin, or break the fixings in something more substantial.

 

I've seen steel scaffold posts fixed into several feet of hard compacted ground come out just because the owner of the boat did not know how to moor properly. Each time a boat went past it moved well over a foot in distance gaining a fair amount of speed in the process, and he didn't even bother to tighten the ropes to try and stop this from happening (liveaboard, so was there nearly every day)!

 

I'm not saying boats don't pass to quickly because in some cases they do, but I've yet to have any damage caused from such because I expect it, and cater for it.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[NB Alnwick]

Just going back to the original post...

 

You don't need people to go past fast to pull mooring posts out if a boat is tied improperly. I'm not suggesting that this was the case in this instance, but the smallest amount of slack on the rope means that the boat pulls on the ropes which in turn causes more slack, and pins to bend, or work themselves free allowing more slack. It then doesn't take as much to finally pull the pin, or break the fixings in something more substantial.

 

I've seen steel scaffold posts fixed into several feet of hard compacted ground come out just because the owner of the boat did not know how to moor properly. Each time a boat went past it moved well over a foot in distance gaining a fair amount of speed in the process, and he didn't even bother to tighten the ropes to try and stop this from happening (liveaboard, so was there nearly every day)!

 

I'm not saying boats don't pass to quickly because in some cases they do, but I've yet to have any damage caused from such because I expect it, and cater for it.

 

This is all well and good but many of us will, from time to time, need to tie up at a location where the water level is likely to change. In these circumstances, short lines drawn tight are unsuitable and potentially dangerous. A sensible and experienced boater will always use the most appropriate method of tying-up but this does not provide an excuse for others to go charging past without any consideration or concern for the circumstances.

 

At the same time there will always be occasions where a boat has not been tied properly for whatever reason, perhaps there may be someone in the water having fallen overboard while tying up, or a mooring pin may have been pulled out by the force of an earlier incident. An experienced boater will be able to observe this as he approaches and take appropriate action (i.e. slow down or stop) to avoid further injury or damage.

 

Jane and I have only been boating for three years but we have encountered three situations where there has been a person in the water between their boat and the quayside/bankside (because they had fallen in while tying up) and dozens of situations where boats were loose on there moorings (often BW work boats - some people slow down for private craft but not for BW boats!) because their pins had worked loose or come out altogether.

 

It is quite obvious to me that if all boaters exercised care and consideration in handling their boats, then there would be fewer injuries and accidents on the waterways.

[mayalld]

I'm all for people NOT speeding, but the limit is 4mph. Not exactly speeding is it? Carl's good at arithmatic, perhaps he could calculate the difference in disturbance between 2, 3 and 4 mph?

4 mph is an absolute limit. There is an aditional requirement not to navigate so as to damage the canal or moored boats. (Byelaw 13)

 

On many narrow canals, it is impossible to achieve 4 mph whilst keeping within that byelaw. 3mph in open channel and 2mph past moored boats is about as fast as one can go.

[NB Alnwick]

4 mph is an absolute limit. There is an aditional requirement not to navigate so as to damage the canal or moored boats. (Byelaw 13)

 

On many narrow canals, it is impossible to achieve 4 mph whilst keeping within that byelaw. 3mph in open channel and 2mph past moored boats is about as fast as one can go.

 

Quite right. Four miles an hour may not seem very fast to those used to road vehicles but try stopping a twenty five ton boat from four miles an hour and you soon realise just how dangerous that speed can be in a narrow canal with limited visibility. Alnwick has a very powerful engine but at that speed it takes at least 50 feet to stop and that is after I have seen the emergency and engaged astern gear. That is roughly the equivalent of just over 30 mph in a car . . .

 

One of my pet gripes is those people who happily bump into your boat and excuse themselves by saying 'narrowboating is a contact sport' - they would quickly change their opinion if part of their anatomy happened to be between the colliding boats

Edited August 2, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[fender]

Quite right. Four miles an hour may not seem very fast to those used to road vehicles but try stopping a twenty five ton boat from four miles an hour and you soon realise just how dangerous that speed can be in a narrow canal with limited visibility. Alnwick has a very powerful engine but at that speed it takes at least 50 feet to stop and that is after I have seen the emergency and engaged astern gear. That is roughly the equivalent of just over 30 mph in a car . . .

 

One of my pet gripes is those people who happily bump into your boat and excuse themselves by saying 'narrowboating is a contact sport' - they would quickly change their opinion if part of their anatomy happened to be between the colliding boats

 

perhaps it is time to move on and devise narrow boats that have plasma energy fields, enabling them to stay relative to their moorings at all time no matter what happens. If the canal should go down, or even has a breach, then one's boat will remain suspsended in mid air until such a time that the water levels are restored. If one so desires, the plasma fields can be set so that on a river if there is a flood the boat will automatically reset itself at least six inches above such river until it returns to normal.

 

And no. I'm not talking bollocks. The technology is there. Its just a question of how to apply it.

 

(I expect there'll come a time when people wont need boats...)

[Hairy-Neil]

4 mph is an absolute limit. There is an aditional requirement not to navigate so as to damage the canal or moored boats. (Byelaw 13)

 

On many narrow canals, it is impossible to achieve 4 mph whilst keeping within that byelaw. 3mph in open channel and 2mph past moored boats is about as fast as one can go.

 

So what speed would be considered "Grossly excessive"???

[NB Alnwick]

So what speed would be considered "Grossly excessive"???

 

Clearly, according to BW, any speed that causes a breaking wash thus causing damage to the canal or moored boats, or is in excess of 4 mph is excessive. So a speed that is even greater than that would be grossly so.

[magnetman]

Clearly, according to BW, any speed that causes a breaking wash thus causing damage to the canal or moored boats, or is in excess of 4 mph is excessive. So a speed that is even greater than that would be grossly so.

you could go past moored boats at 5mph in a dinghy and you won't cause a problem. in a narrow channel it is the displacement of the vessel which causes the problem so GES is going to vary from one boat to another. It is quite possible, in a relatively heavy canal boat, to travel without making a breaking wash but still cause quite severe disruption to moored boats.

[fender]

So what speed would be considered "Grossly excessive"???

 

A 2 mph speed might be grossly excessive to the smallest living organisms in the canal. Its like having a car hit you at 30mph.