Boat prices

[larkshall]

In this era of financial uncertanty, do members feel that boat prices will increase decrease or remain broadly static.

 

I know that boaters are already suffering increased costs of moorings, fuel (diesel, gas even solid fuel), plus insurance et all/

 

Perhaps falling house prices may reduce boat builds, or conversely, people may be having to sell up because of mortgage costs, or credit squeeze, this may mean a large increase in the nos of 'liveaboards'

 

What do we think then ?

Edited May 20, 2008 by larkshall

[carlt]

I think the number of liveaboards will remain pretty static, because as many people are dumping the canals, through disillusionment, as are moving on.

 

So I'm not allowed a vote!

[larkshall]

I think the number of liveaboards will remain pretty static, because as many people are dumping the canals, through disillusionment, as are moving on.

 

So I'm not allowed a vote!

 

 

Oops Carl sorry I meant to put in an options there, wonder if I can mod it now?

 

 

Oops Carl sorry I meant to put in an options there, wonder if I can mod it now?

 

 

Added an option

[carlt]

Oops Carl sorry I meant to put in an options there, wonder if I can mod it now?

I think so.

 

I seem to remember someone having to edit a poll many times, because the unruly masses kept demanding new options.

 

Edited to say: Two Cheers for Democracy!!

Edited May 20, 2008 by carlt

[Ex- Member]

I would suggest boat building will slump. People with mortgages they can still afford will probably stay put and ride the storm, as they may have well paid more their house than it's worth now. The decision to move to life on the water takes time, and even if made quite quickly then there's the time needed to choose what you want and choose a builder. During this time if the economic climate stagnates or even gets worse then they'll be put off even more as any equity will be further reduced.

 

Currently houses are'nt selling unless the price is dramatically dropped. The current price drop will bring most house owners near the negative equity line, so will have no capital to spend on a boat. Removal companies of which one I am a director are currently suffering an 85% drop in domestic removals undertaken since Nov 07 not just us, the big boys too.

 

It's unlikely anyone owning a house currently would consider a boat, in fact it's probably the last thing on their mind

 

This leaves the people with equity that might want a boat for leisure purposes, there could be some custom there, but probably at a lower rate than boats have been built for leisure purposes previously.

 

On the up side, boat builders will probably not suffer any downturn for several months to come, as boats are usually ordered in advance and could still be waiting for a build slot. A couple of builders I've spoken to have orders for the next 5 to 7 months. Should the economy regain some legs in that time, the likely hood is that more orders will follow on. However any further downturn I would be worrying if no new orders came in.

 

Also take in to account deposits builders may have on boats ordered, if the people ordering these boats haven't sold their house yet, they're probably going to have to take a big loss on what they expected to get for it. The loss of a deposit against any big losses on their house sale will have them cancelling orders for boats rather than take a big hit on their sale price. In some cases not actually seeing enough equity to purchase at the agreed cost anyway.

 

We're on a tightrope at the moment, there's not a chance things will get better in the next 12 months, at best we have to hope it stagnates, personally I believe it will get a lot worse, although i did hear today that 2 major mortgage lenders were offering mortgages again, Abbey & Halifax i believe, the rest will need to follow suit though.

[larkshall]

I would suggest boat building will slump. People with mortgages they can still afford will probably stay put and ride the storm, as they may have well paid more their house than it's worth now. The decision to move to life on the water takes time, and even if made quite quickly then there's the time needed to choose what you want and choose a builder. During this time if the economic climate stagnates or even gets worse then they'll be put off even more as any equity will be further reduced.

 

Currently houses are'nt selling unless the price is dramatically dropped. The current price drop will bring most house owners near the negative equity line, so will have no capital to spend on a boat. Removal companies of which one I am a director are currently suffering an 85% drop in domestic removals undertaken since Nov 07 not just us, the big boys too.

 

It's unlikely anyone owning a house currently would consider a boat, in fact it's probably the last thing on their mind

 

This leaves the people with equity that might want a boat for leisure purposes, there could be some custom there, but probably at a lower rate than boats have been built for leisure purposes previously.

 

On the up side, boat builders will probably not suffer any downturn for several months to come, as boats are usually ordered in advance and could still be waiting for a build slot. A couple of builders I've spoken to have orders for the next 5 to 7 months. Should the economy regain some legs in that time, the likely hood is that more orders will follow on. However any further downturn I would be worrying if no new orders came in.

 

Also take in to account deposits builders may have on boats ordered, if the people ordering these boats haven't sold their house yet, they're probably going to have to take a big loss on what they expected to get for it. The loss of a deposit against any big losses on their house sale will have them cancelling orders for boats rather than take a big hit on their sale price. In some cases not actually seeing enough equity to purchase at the agreed cost anyway.

 

We're on a tightrope at the moment, there's not a chance things will get better in the next 12 months, at best we have to hope it stagnates, personally I believe it will get a lot worse, although i did hear today that 2 major mortgage lenders were offering mortgages again, Abbey & Halifax i believe, the rest will need to follow suit though.

 

 

As an aside, whats happened to Pickfords? I hear they are in trouble, shame they have moved me most way around the globe and not broken one item

[AMModels]

As an aside, whats happened to Pickfords? I hear they are in trouble, shame they have moved me most way around the globe and not broken one item

Well they moved out of canal carrying about 150 years ago I always thought it was a short sighted decision.

 

[Ex- Member]

Pickfords has now been bought by TEAM, a company that has 30 years experience in the removals industry.

 

 

 

Kevin Pickford confirmed today that Pickfords has now been bought by TEAM, a company that has 30 years experience in the removals industry. He gave reps an update on the situation around the company sale at the Company Joint Council meeting in Head Office.

Yogi Mehta, one of the new owners of TEAM, also came and spoke to the reps from TSSA, Unite (T&G) and URTU and explained that his aim is to invest in Pickfords the brand and made assurances that there would be no closures or lay offs at present. His focus would be on marketing the brand and expanding the company.

There will be discussions around each function within Pickfords next week and we will keep you updated on any developments that happen.

The pay claim for TSSA members has been submitted but no response has been given as of yet.

TSSA will remain in dialogue with Pickfords and you will be informed of any developments.

Jessie Fenn - Regional Organiser

 

This is the last I heard.

[Lady Muck]

I think the number of liveaboards will remain pretty static, because as many people are dumping the canals, through disillusionment, as are moving on.

 

So I'm not allowed a vote!

 

I agree with you, I've seen people buy boats round here, hoping to be taken seriously and get a mooring (because they have a boat), then give up because there is no moorings availability at all.

 

Loads of people I speak to want to live aboard, but they often have very unrealistic expectations (I think they expect a narrowboat to cost about 5 grand and for it to be really, really cheap), once they've looked into it, most of them soon lose interest.

[Debby]

I think the number of liveaboards will remain pretty static, because as many people are dumping the canals, through disillusionment, as are moving on.

 

Eighteen months ago we were all set to buy a boat, with the intention of becoming liveaboards by the time we retired. We'd decided what sort of boat - an ex hire - and drawn up plans for the layout, and were ready to start boat hunting. Then we joined this forum, to learn more about things we weren't sure of - electrics mainly! Now.......the plans are in the bin. Too many rules and regulations, too much bureaucracy (not all created by BW), not enough of the 'escape from people' we were expecting. So we'll carry on living by the canal for now, enjoying the wildlife, peace, quiet and solitude. When we retire, we'll be moving abroad.

 

We are extremely grateful to this forum for opening our eyes to the reality of life on the canals.

[carlt]

When we retire, we'll be moving abroad.

A friend of mine took his boat over to France for a couple of years.

 

When he got back he told me he was sat on the roof of his boat and an englishman with a clipboard came over to chat to him.

 

Turns out the chap was from BW and he was over there at the invitation of the French to advise them on improving and promoting their waterways!

 

"Now tell me Mr.Shipman, what should we do to improve geriatric healthcare"

[Debby]

A friend of mine took his boat over to France for a couple of years.

 

When he got back he told me he was sat on the roof of his boat and an englishman with a clipboard came over to chat to him.

 

Turns out the chap was from BW and he was over there at the invitation of the French to advise them on improving and promoting their waterways!

 

"Now tell me Mr.Shipman, what should we do to improve geriatric healthcare"

 

That's wonderful! But though France is top of our list, since we both speak French (Dave speaks Russian too, but we don't fancy living there!), it's unlikely we'll be living on a boat. It would be nice to live by a canal when we're there, we still love canals and boats.

[carlt]

That's wonderful! But though France is top of our list, since we both speak French (Dave speaks Russian too, but we don't fancy living there!), it's unlikely we'll be living on a boat. It would be nice to live by a canal when we're there, we still love canals and boats.

If this wasn't above the head of navigation, it'd be mine, by now:

 

Clicky

[Debby]

If this wasn't above the head of navigation, it'd be mine, by now:

 

Clicky

 

Now that looks good! I've stopped browsing French property sites at the moment, as it'll be a few more years before we buy out there, and I kept falling in love with places. A few holidays are planned, to try and decide which area we want - though both of us are yearning for Brittany. A coastal property there would be nice.......

[BlueStringPudding]

I think the number of liveaboards will increase as fewer people can get mortgages and more people lose their homes. This I think will slightly drive up the price of liveaboard boats as demand will be increased. But I don't think the change will be dramatic or fast.

[Dominic M]

If this wasn't above the head of navigation, it'd be mine, by now:

 

Clicky

Not sure which property on that list you mean but France has such beautiful countryside - same population and (I'm sure somebody will correct me on this) 4 times the land area.

 

The massive difference is the price of property. If you think that people here are willing to spend £90k and more on a new narrowboat, well you can buy a cottage and several hectares for that money in France. The equation is very different. Even if you only have, say £30 - 35k to spend on a boat here, that represents a very substantial downpayment on a dwelling in many French regions. And "le mortgage" is cheaper - Eurozone interest rates are some way lower than here at the moment.

[carlt]

Not sure which property on that list you mean but France has such beautiful countryside - same population and (I'm sure somebody will correct me on this) 4 times the land area.

The only one that's waterside (hence the "head of navigation" comment) "On the banks of the River Seine"

[Dominic M]

The only one that's waterside (hence the "head of navigation" comment) "On the banks of the River Seine"

Indeed! Should have read the small print. Just had a look on Google Maps - that's a lovely part of the world.

[tillergirl]

I think people like us are more likely to stay put and not put house on the market as there is little encouragement for people to buy. And I have noticed that people are reducing the price of their boats for sale just as people keep reducing the price of their houses. I don't think it will drive people to liveaboard its more likely that they will rent housing as its currently cheaper to rent than it is to get a mortgage. I know because my two daughters are in exactly that position. Both live together and rent and even their combined salaries (and one is a teacher) they cannot afford a mortgage - though its not so much the repayments its getting a £20k deposit together!

[GRPCruiserman]

Boat prices have decreased, at least cheaper boats, I think I sold our last one at just the right time, it had steadily increased in value whilst we had it and soon after I couldn't even get a small boat, but now there seem to be loads about and people can't sell them even at silly cheap prices.

 

The only thing is, I'm glad I didn't get another as I couldn't now afford the now exhorbitant prices on the canals anyway!! I'll stick to the rivers round here and the sea, it's free!!

[Gary Peacock]

We might see a two tier price structure develop. The recreational boats may come down in price because the hobby is now too expensive, but the general "state of the nation" might make residence on the water seem more attractive again and in that case boats built for or suitable for residential use may increase in value.

[Maverick]

We might see a two tier price structure develop. The recreational boats may come down in price because the hobby is now too expensive, but the general "state of the nation" might make residence on the water seem more attractive again and in that case boats built for or suitable for residential use may increase in value.

 

As a recreational boater who recently sold his narrowboat, the licence costs will have to fall before I could return to the water and this will never happen. I very nearly ploughed some of my hard earned cash into another small cruiser in an attempt to stay on the water and continue to enjoy a hobby that I love.

 

Buying the boat is the easy bit as many of you will know. The laws and regulations that require me to spend far too much on licences and mooring fees has made me come to my senses and admit that I have to call it a day.

 

If you multiply my case against the huge number of others in the same position as myself then there is only one way this can go and thats downhill.

 

What is happening is just the tip of the iceberg and call it doom and gloom if you like but it could well be the beginning of the end for the canal systems as we know it.

 

This will have a knock on effect to every single boater out there at some time in the future and a canal without a boat will be as much use as ........................... You decide.

 

Many folk have milked the pot and become very wealthy since the sixties boom of restoring life to the canals. The pot is almost empty and the numbers prepared to keep the pot topped up are getting fewer by the day.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Maverick

[bridgit]

We put our boat up for sale and the only people we have showed her to is those that think it would be a good idea to live aboard ( when they have sold their house). Our price has dropped by 10,000 and looks like it will have to drop again, its a very expensive hobby.

[magnetman]

If 4 in 5 people think boats will reduce in value it will happen. Increased costs, depressing incompetent maintenance and an overall 'big brother' attitude will put people off and i can see canals becoming, as suggested in another topic, an 'open air gym'. The general plan seems to be a combination of Thorpe Park and London Zoo. Theme park mentality is in charge.

[Eastern]

This will have a knock on effect to every single boater out there at some time in the future and a canal without a boat will be as much use as ........................... You decide.

 

In no way do I want to see a canal with no boats. But we must remember that naturalists, walkers, cyclists and fishermen/women will still use and value the canals.

 

Our plans are unchanged at becoming a livaboard in 2010/11 on a brand new British boat - well, English really. We will be retaining some property in the UK housing market to give us a choice of where to live when our health fails, as we not expecting the value of the boat to be more than 50% of what we will be paying for it.

 

Many years ago I lived as an ex-pat in Germany. When I arrived the people already there were complaining about how the value of the pound had fallen whilst they had been there etc. As a newcomer I thought it was great. The same may be happening to boatowners on the canals.