Why won't my generator run my washing machine?

[Keeping Up]

I didn't think his geeny was shutting down? I thought the washing machine simply didn't work?

 

Gibbo

Yes, that's true, but it's quite possible that the initial reduced output level that yuo mention could confuse the washing machine's electronics so it goes straight to an indication of "end of cycle"; or that the output shuts down completely, resetting the washing machine whereupon the apparent overload is removed and the inverter/genny restores to full output so quickly that the user doesn't even notice that it happened.

[Gibbo]

Yes, that's true, but it's quite possible that the initial reduced output level that yuo mention could confuse the washing machine's electronics so it goes straight to an indication of "end of cycle"; or that the output shuts down completely, resetting the washing machine whereupon the apparent overload is removed and the inverter/genny restores to full output so quickly that the user doesn't even notice that it happened.

 

It's certainly a possibility. The only way to be sure is to get a 'scope on the genny output and try the washing machine. See what happens. We're guessing other than that.

 

Gibbo

[Keeping Up]

It's certainly a possibility. The only way to be sure is to get a 'scope on the genny output and try the washing machine. See what happens. We're guessing other than that.

Absolutely. Guessing is fun, a bit like an electrical version of the pub quiz (but with an outside chance of helping someone in the process!) Now what we need is a washing machine with a built-in oscilloscope. I think I've got an old 6" tube somewhere, that would sit nicely behind that porthole in the door.

[saltysplash]

Not knowing your set up but have you made sure all other electrical items are turned off?

Is the washing machine plugged directly into the gennie with nothing else trying to use the power available?

 

Just a thought

[RobinJ]

Yes, that's true, but it's quite possible that the initial reduced output level that yuo mention could confuse the washing machine's electronics so it goes straight to an indication of "end of cycle"; or that the output shuts down completely, resetting the washing machine whereupon the apparent overload is removed and the inverter/genny restores to full output so quickly that the user doesn't even notice that it happened.

Aha! Had this problem trying to run a flourescent off a genny once - stick an ordinary light bulb on it!

[blackrose]

As I was sitting in a dentist's waiting room today mulling this over and I think I may have stumbled upon the answer - and it may be a simple one...

 

The Honda EU30is has two power settings - Eco and High Ouptput. With the generator on Eco mode it stays at idling speed to save fuel until a load is applied at which point it surges to accommodate the load. I didn't think about changing the setting, so could it be that on eco mode when the washing machine is switched on, the generator can't respond quickly enough to cope with the startup load? Gibbo said it was only half a second.

 

If so, I feel like a bit of an idiot but then again the man from Honda's technical dept didn't suggest this either, so he's an idiot too.

 

I'll try it on high output tomorrow morning and let you know the results.

 

Mike

Edited May 9, 2008 by blackrose

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Hi Blackrose,

 

In my opinion it's most likely the genny waveform, when you start a wash the machine will only use a few watts to lock the door and open the water valve, the motor and heater will kick in later so it'n not exessive load for the genny. the intermittent tripping is often the heater element gasket, water seeps onto the element contacts and causes an overload. the P.A.T tester wont fail this when its dry, but the tester will be usefull, most will not work without a good waveform, I use a packard Bell PAC 500 (the most common) with a bad waveform the led lights on it will flicker and it will fail every appliance tested. Zanussi electronics are picky about waveform, a different brand of washer may (or may not) work with the genny.

[blackrose]

Hi Blackrose,

 

In my opinion it's most likely the genny waveform, when you start a wash the machine will only use a few watts to lock the door and open the water valve, the motor and heater will kick in later so it'n not exessive load for the genny. the intermittent tripping is often the heater element gasket, water seeps onto the element contacts and causes an overload. the P.A.T tester wont fail this when its dry, but the tester will be usefull, most will not work without a good waveform, I use a packard Bell PAC 500 (the most common) with a bad waveform the led lights on it will flicker and it will fail every appliance tested. Zanussi electronics are picky about waveform, a different brand of washer may (or may not) work with the genny.

 

But the Honda EU range is supposed to put out a 'purer' waveform than the mains?

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

I just checked it out on their website and your right, maybe this one is faulty, i'll be intersted to see the outcome anyway

[Gibbo]

Aha! Had this problem trying to run a flourescent off a genny once - stick an ordinary light bulb on it!

 

That applies to normal generators, not inverter generators. At least it shouldn't!

 

Gibbo

[blackrose]

I think I may have stumbled upon the answer - and it may be a simple one...

 

The Honda EU30is has two power settings - Eco and High Ouptput. With the generator on Eco mode it stays at idling speed to save fuel until a load is applied at which point it surges to accommodate the load. I didn't think about changing the setting, so could it be that on eco mode when the washing machine is switched on, the generator can't respond quickly enough to cope with the startup load? Gibbo said it was only half a second.

 

Well, I was so sure that was the answer, but I just tried it and it's not...

Edited May 9, 2008 by blackrose

[smileypete]

The end of washing cycle light just flashes.

 

Flashes constantly or a sequence then a pause?

 

Try posting on the forums at 'ukwhitegoods' (Google) but do a search there first.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[blackrose]

Flashes constantly or a sequence then a pause?

 

Try posting on the forums at 'ukwhitegoods' (Google) but do a search there first.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Nothing happens at first then after a few seconds the end of cycle light flashes a few times and then a pause and then it flashes again

[blackrose]

RESULT!

 

The Zanussi's electronics can't run on a generator's floating earth. I've made a link between neutral & earth on the male (generator) end of the cable which goes from the genny to my shore power inlet and the washing machine is now working!

 

Thanks for all your help. I'm going to call Honda Power's technical dept on Monday morning and tell them that the EU30is can run a 1.6kw washing machine even with the motor's startup load.

[Gibbo]

RESULT!

 

The Zanussi's electronics can't run on a generator's floating earth. I've made a link between neutral & earth on the male (generator) end of the cable which goes from the genny to my shore power inlet and the washing machine is now working!

 

Thanks for all your help. I'm going to call Honda Power's technical dept on Monday morning and tell them that the EU30is can run a 1.6kw washing machine even with the motor's startup load.

 

Interesting!

 

The Zanussi does not comply with CE and it is against the law to sell it in the EU!

 

I wonder why this hasn't come to light earlier?

 

Gibbo

[GUMPY]

RESULT!

 

The Zanussi's electronics can't run on a generator's floating earth. I've made a link between neutral & earth on the male (generator) end of the cable which goes from the genny to my shore power inlet and the washing machine is now working!

 

Thanks for all your help. I'm going to call Honda Power's technical dept on Monday morning and tell them that the EU30is can run a 1.6kw washing machine even with the motor's startup load.

 

That set me thinking:

didnt you have problems with the socket that the WM plugs onto tripping the RCD?

There could be a miswire of the system somewhere, that is hidden by a N-E link.

Or there could be EMC filters in the WM that are dumping current down the earth.

 

Something to ponder.............

[blackrose]

Interesting!

 

The Zanussi does not comply with CE and it is against the law to sell it in the EU!

 

I wonder why this hasn't come to light earlier?

 

Gibbo

 

Should it be able to run on a floating earth to comply with CE? I'm sure it's CE marked. Perhaps I've got this wrong and it does run on floating earth, but it only seemed to work once I'd modified the cable - even then there was a delay before it started, The end of cycle light flashed, delay, and then the other lights illuminated and I was able to start it. It could be that the washing machine had locked itself out because I had previously tried to start it on eco-mode which wasn't sufficient for the startup load, and it just needed more time to reset itself after I'd switched the eco-mode off?

 

Anyway, as I was instructed by Julian (Idleness), for anyone thinking of making an earth-neutral link on their generator cable be sure to check with the generator manufacturer that your generator has a floating earth and that this cable modification is ok. Make the link on the generator end of the cable and label the cable "NEUTRAL-EARTH BONDED. FOR GENERATOR USE ONLY. DO NOT USE THIS CABLE FOR SHORE POWER"

[smileypete]

Nothing happens at first then after a few seconds the end of cycle light flashes a few times and then a pause and then it flashes again

It would've been handy to know the number of flashes, in case anyone else gets the same problem.

 

 

The Zanussi's electronics can't run on a generator's floating earth. I've made a link between neutral & earth on the male (generator) end of the cable which goes from the genny to my shore power inlet and the washing machine is now working!

I'd ask Honda if/how it can be done at the generator itself.

 

If you use the generator lead on a different generator with a 'centre tapped earth', it might damage it, so I'd label the lead 'For Honda XXX ONLY!'

 

cheers,

Pete.

[blackrose]

It would've been handy to know the number of flashes, in case anyone else gets the same problem.

 

I'd ask Honda if/how it can be done at the generator itself.

 

If you use the generator lead on a different generator with a 'centre tapped earth', it might damage it, so I'd label the lead 'For Honda XXX ONLY!'

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

I've just put another load of washing on and it's still doing the same thing - I think it's approx 10 sec delay, end of cycle light gives 4 or 5 flashes, 10 sec delay, then the start light is lit and you can start the machine.

 

I think there's something on the Honda website about neutral-earth bonding the generator itself. The cable modification seems easier to me.

 

Good point about the label - I'll change it.

Edited May 10, 2008 by blackrose

[blackrose]

That set me thinking:

didnt you have problems with the socket that the WM plugs onto tripping the RCD?

There could be a miswire of the system somewhere, that is hidden by a N-E link.

Or there could be EMC filters in the WM that are dumping current down the earth.

 

Something to ponder.............

 

Yes, I had problems with the washing machine tripping the RCBO but the ring mains has been tested as has the RCBO and both are ok.

 

I think the nuisance trips are down to the machine but I am still waiting for a friend to get hold of a portable appliance tester to check this.

 

Unfortunately the washing machine is now out of warranty so if we find it's faulty I guess there's not much I can do now.

[Gibbo]

Should it be able to run on a floating earth to comply with CE?

 

Yes.

 

Gibbo

 

Yes, I had problems with the washing machine tripping the RCBO but the ring mains has been tested as has the RCBO and both are ok.

 

Which kind of implies the problem is the washing machine.

 

Gibbo

[smileypete]

I've just put another load of washing on and it's still doing the same thing - I think it's approx 10 sec delay, end of cycle light gives 4 or 5 flashes, 10 sec delay, then the start light is lit and you can start the machine.

 

4 flashes is 'door open', might be normal.

 

5 flashes, I'd try calling Zanussi to find out what it is (number in manual posted earlier)

 

cheers,

Pete.

[blackrose]

4 flashes is 'door open', might be normal.

 

5 flashes, I'd try calling Zanussi to find out what it is (number in manual posted earlier)

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Well the door was definately closed...

[Gibbo]

Well the door was definately closed...

 

But the door switch might not have thought so?

 

Gibbo

[pearley]

RESULT!

 

The Zanussi's electronics can't run on a generator's floating earth. I've made a link between neutral & earth on the male (generator) end of the cable which goes from the genny to my shore power inlet and the washing machine is now working!

 

Thanks for all your help. I'm going to call Honda Power's technical dept on Monday morning and tell them that the EU30is can run a 1.6kw washing machine even with the motor's startup load.

Do you think that this would work with my generator and the Zanussi?

 

It is a 8kva Vetus unit connected with a Victron 3000 multiplus?

 

In our case, the drum will just twitch and then the lights flash. Works OK from inverter or shoreline. I put its lack of working down to poor waveform control but perhaps it wasn't