Why won't my generator run my washing machine?

[blackrose]

I have a Honda EU30is 3kw (2.6kw rated continuous) and a Zanussi ZWC1300 which draws 1600w max. The generator runs everything else fine including the battery charger, etc, but not the washing machine. The end of washing cycle light just flashes. This is the first time I've tried this. I thought the Honda EU range were supposed to put out a better sine wave than the mains?

 

One other thing. There are two neon safety lights next to my mains selector switch - 'system on and 'correct polarity'. The 'correct polarity' light is flickering.

 

I've had problems of the RCBO tripping with this washing machine when on shore power which I still haven't got to the bottom of. The ring mains has been tested as was the RCBO and both were ok. I'm just waiting for a friend to get hold of a portable appliance tester to test the machine.

[Scotty]

I can't help with the problem, but I know where to find the manual which might help our experts

http://www.serviceforce.co.uk/pdfs/U25418.pdf

[RobinJ]

One other thing. There are two neon safety lights next to my mains selector switch - 'system on and 'correct polarity'. The 'correct polarity' light is flickering.

Is this normal?

I would expect both to be on?

The end of washing cycle light just flashes.

Do you have a problem with the door?

[blackrose]

I can't help with the problem, but I know where to find the manual which might help our experts

http://www.serviceforce.co.uk/pdfs/U25418.pdf

 

Thanks for that.

 

Is this normal?

I would expect both to be on?

 

Do you have a problem with the door?

 

I don't think there's any problem with the door - it worked on shore power.

[Arnot]

I have a Honda EU30is 3kw (2.6kw rated continuous) and a Zanussi ZWC1300 which draws 1600w max. The generator runs everything else fine including the battery charger, etc, but not the washing machine. The end of washing cycle light just flashes. This is the first time I've tried this. I thought the Honda EU range were supposed to put out a better sine wave than the mains?

 

One other thing. There are two neon safety lights next to my mains selector switch - 'system on and 'correct polarity'. The 'correct polarity' light is flickering.

 

I've had problems of the RCBO tripping with this washing machine when on shore power which I still haven't got to the bottom of. The ring mains has been tested as was the RCBO and both were ok. I'm just waiting for a friend to get hold of a portable appliance tester to test the machine.

Just a thought - is there a problem with the insulation resistance of the heating element? This seems to be a regular intermittent fault on washing machines and would probably not show up on a portable appliance test. This would explain the RCBO tripping.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Regards

 

Arnot

[blackrose]

Just a thought - is there a problem with the insulation resistance of the heating element? This seems to be a regular intermittent fault on washing machines and would probably not show up on a portable appliance test. This would explain the RCBO tripping.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Regards

 

Arnot

 

Could well be, I don't know. Originally I didn't want to call out a Zanussi repairman under warranty because they said if it wasn't the machine I'd have to pay a call out charge, but this has been going on so long now that the bloody machine's out of warranty!

 

I just spoke to Honda Power who told me it's simply a loading problem because the startup load of the motor might be 3 times the stated 1.6kw. That really surprised me because I thought a 3kw generator would easily cope with the washing machine load.

[richardf]

I just spoke to Honda Power who told me it's simply a loading problem because the startup load of the motor might be 3 times the stated 1.6kw. That really surprised me because I thought a 3kw generator would easily cope with the washing machine load.

 

3 times 1.6KW is 4.8KW - I thought you could only get 3KW through a 13A plug at 240V - in which case, would the fuse not blow? Or is this a constant load rather than a quick surge?

[blackrose]

3 times 1.6KW is 4.8KW - I thought you could only get 3KW through a 13A plug at 240V - in which case, would the fuse not blow? Or is this a constant load rather than a quick surge?

 

Quite. How does my 16amp (3.8kw) shore power supply cope with 4.8kw? The washing machine runs from shore power...

[Mick_B]

I have no probs with this...

 

 

 

 

Maybe we could club together and buy you one for your birthday...

[Kristian]

" The 'correct polarity' light is flickering. "

Dont worry about this when running a geni, they do it all the time inc mine, Its due to the geni not being or having an "Earth" as such.

But your mains land line is earthed, which is why it dosent do it when your "hooked up".

Just carry on and forget it!

Kristian.

[1066]

I'm pretty sure it's just a loading problem.

 

I had a 2.8kW gennie that struggled to run an 800 Watt microwave ..... my 4kW genset had no trouble at all.

 

I don't think the shape of the sinewave will make much difference .... unfortunately it's just the way that generators respond to certain loads ........ Inductive loads like motors or transformers really seem to knock the wind out of them.

[blackrose]

I have no probs with this...

 

 

 

 

Maybe we could club together and buy you one for your birthday...

 

Cheers

 

" The 'correct polarity' light is flickering. "

Dont worry about this when running a geni, they do it all the time inc mine, Its due to the geni not being or having an "Earth" as such.

But your mains land line is earthed, which is why it dosent do it when your "hooked up".

Just carry on and forget it!

Kristian.

 

Ok, thanks for that.

 

Before anyone steps in to warn me about earthing I know and I'm going to do it properly. This was just a quick test to see whether the genny would run the washing machine, and it doesn't!

 

I'm pretty sure it's just a loading problem.

 

I had a 2.8kW gennie that struggled to run an 800 Watt microwave ..... my 4kW genset had no trouble at all.

 

I don't think the shape of the sinewave will make much difference .... unfortunately it's just the way that generators respond to certain loads ........ Inductive loads like motors or transformers really seem to knock the wind out of them.

 

Well perhaps the generator will have to go back onto ebay - bollocks!

 

How are all these people I hear about running washing machines from their 3kw inverters, when I can't run one from a 3kw generator? Would a Candy run from my generator?

[Tony Brooks]

Cheers

 

 

 

Ok, thanks for that.

 

Before anyone steps in to warn me about earthing I know and I'm going to do it properly. This was just a quick test to see whether the genny would run the washing machine, and it doesn't!

 

 

 

Well perhaps the generator will have to go back onto ebay - bollocks!

 

How are all these people I hear about running washing machines from their 3kw inverters, when I can't run one from a 3kw generator? Would a Candy run from my generator?

 

 

Are you sure its 3kW and not 3kVA which is a very different thing on AC and involves power factors and things that Chris can explain. If it is 3kVA I suspect it would equate to less that 2.5kW. Then we come to the starting surge that the electronics in the generator probably react to all but instantly but even a circuit breaker is designed to "ignore" for some milliseconds - and fuse take even longer to melt.

 

Have you tried disconnecting the heater element or setting for a cold wash and filling via a thermostatic mixing valve? That works for some people.

[blackrose]

Are you sure its 3kW and not 3kVA which is a very different thing on AC and involves power factors and things that Chris can explain. If it is 3kVA I suspect it would equate to less that 2.5kW. Then we come to the starting surge that the electronics in the generator probably react to all but instantly but even a circuit breaker is designed to "ignore" for some milliseconds - and fuse take even longer to melt.

 

Have you tried disconnecting the heater element or setting for a cold wash and filling via a thermostatic mixing valve? That works for some people.

 

Yes, it's 3kva but the rated continuous output is 2.8kw http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/pages/HondaEU30is.htm

 

The coolest wash programme seems to be 30 deg C and it doesn't work on that setting. The machine is cold fill only and I haven't tried filling via a TMV.

Edited May 8, 2008 by blackrose

[Dylan]

Very briefly my situaton:

 

Candy 1000T

Runs beautifully off 3Kw Sterling PSW.

Tries to self destruct off 2KVA frame genny because speed control goes to cock.

[Keeping Up]

How are all these people I hear about running washing machines from their 3kw inverters, when I can't run one from a 3kw generator? Would a Candy run from my generator?

I don't know the details of the genny, but does it in effect contain an inverter?

[1066]

How are all these people I hear about running washing machines from their 3kw inverters, when I can't run one from a 3kw generator?

 

An inverter will constantly monitor the load on the output, and adjust itself to suit ....... a gennie just says 'Sod it, I don't want to play anymore!!'

[blackrose]

I don't know the details of the genny, but does it in effect contain an inverter?

 

Yes, it does.

[Gibbo]

A few ponts to various points raised in this thread.

 

The motor in the washer will be a few hundred watts. Typical start up of AC motors of that type is (despite what some people think) SEVEN to TEN times the running current. So you could be looking at 3 to 4kW or so for the motor during start up (maybe half a second tops). The generator should do this easily.

 

It can't be the waveform because it's an inverter type with pure sinewave output.

 

The flashing light is because the inverter has a floating output (ie no neutral earth bonding).

 

So that leaves me with.... I dunno......... It SHOULD work. There's no reason why it shouldn't.

 

Intermittent RCD tripping is likely to be the heater element as Arnot pointed out.

 

The reason these things don't blow normal fuses is because a 15 Amp fuse will pass well over 50 Amps for 250mS or so.

 

Can't help I'm afraid.

 

Gibbo

[blackrose]

A few ponts to various points raised in this thread.

 

The motor in the washer will be a few hundred watts. Typical start up of AC motors of that type is (despite what some people think) SEVEN to TEN times the running current. So you could be looking at 3 to 4kW or so for the motor during start up (maybe half a second tops). The generator should do this easily.

 

It can't be the waveform because it's an inverter type with pure sinewave output.

 

The flashing light is because the inverter has a floating output (ie no neutral earth bonding).

 

So that leaves me with.... I dunno......... It SHOULD work. There's no reason why it shouldn't.

 

Intermittent RCD tripping is likely to be the heater element as Arnot pointed out.

 

The reason these things don't blow normal fuses is because a 15 Amp fuse will pass well over 50 Amps for 250mS or so.

 

Can't help I'm afraid.

 

Gibbo

 

Thanks. That is helpful in a way because it backs up what I originally thought - that it should work.

 

However if as you say, the startup is as much as 4kw for even half a second, could a 3kva generator cope with that?

 

The only other thing I can think of is that I bought the generator second hand and perhaps there's something wrong with it and it's not putting out a pure sine wave. Everything else works ok - no lines on the TV, but I haven't tried the microwave which would be a good test. It wouldn't be anything to do with the fact I haven't neutral/earth bonded and the generator is still sitting on a floating earth would it?

Edited May 9, 2008 by blackrose

[Gibbo]

Thanks. That is helpful in a way because it backs up what I originally thought - that it should work.

 

However if as you say, the startup is as much as 4kw for even half a second, could a 3kva generator cope with that?

 

The only other thing I can think of is that I bought the generator second hand and perhaps there's something wrong with it and it's not putting out a pure sine wave. Everything else works ok - no lines on the TV, but I haven't tried the microwave which would be a good test. It wouldn't be anything to do with the fact I haven't neutral/earth bonded and the generator is still sitting on a floating earth would it?

 

A 3kVA genny should be able to surge to 4kVA. Even if it can't, it would still start up the motor, it would just take a bit longer to reach full speed.

 

As stated in another thread. The equipment should not care whether neutral and earth are bonded or not. It makes no difference whatsoever unless the equipment is actually faulty.

 

Gibbo

[Keeping Up]

A 3kVA genny should be able to surge to 4kVA. Even if it can't, it would still start up the motor, it would just take a bit longer to reach full speed.

That MAY not be true in the case of a genny which has a major load of electronics between its electromechanicals and its output. The overload trip may operate very fast as soon as it reaches its rated output

[Gibbo]

That MAY not be true in the case of a genny which has a major load of electronics between its electromechanicals and its output. The overload trip may operate very fast as soon as it reaches its rated output

 

If you overload an inverter generator it does this.....

 

Produces a reduced output voltage and hopes that the output voltage rises.

 

Keeps monitoring the output current and if it exceeds the safe limit it shuts down.

 

If after a short period of time the voltage has not risen back to normal it shuts down.

 

Either way, the unit will shut down if it cannot power the load. It won't continue trying with a reduced output voltage like a normal generator does.

 

Gibbo

[Keeping Up]

Which could easily produces the very symptoms seen by Blackrose here

[Gibbo]

Which could easily produces the very symptoms seen by Blackrose here

 

I didn't think his geeny was shutting down? I thought the washing machine simply didn't work?

 

Gibbo