Why won't my generator run my washing machine?

[blackrose]

The latest on my washing machine saga:

 

On shore power my Zanussi ZWC1300 used to trip the RCBO almost every time it was switched on. The ring mains was completely checked and no faults found.

 

I eventually got it to work from the generator while I was away, and now I'm back at my mooring on shore power and guess what? It's not tripping the RCBO anymore! What has changed to make it ok now - has the generator somehow modified the fault?

 

I got hold of a portable appliance tester and did an earth continuity test, earth bond test and insulation resistance test. A friend who was helping me told me that the insulation resistance test on the washing machine was below 1 meg ohm, which he said is a failure in normal domestic appliances.

[Gibbo]

The latest on my washing machine saga:

 

On shore power my Zanussi ZWC1300 used to trip the RCBO almost every time it was switched on. The ring mains was completely checked and no faults found.

 

I eventually got it to work from the generator while I was away, and now I'm back at my mooring on shore power and guess what? It's not tripping the RCBO anymore! What has changed to make it ok now - has the generator somehow modified the fault?

 

I got hold of a portable appliance tester and did an earth continuity test, earth bond test and insulation resistance test. A friend who was helping me told me that the insulation resistance test on the washing machine was below 1 meg ohm, which he said is a failure in normal domestic appliances.

 

A dodgy (as in leaky) "Y" cap between neutral and earth in the WM could have been causing the original problem of tripping the RCD. It could have also been partly responsible for its refusal to work from the neutral/earth isolated generator (read back through the thread).

 

Running (or rather trying to run) the washing machine from the floating generator could have zapped the leaky cap.

 

And your mate is right. 1 Meg is too low. It would indiciate the remains of a dodgy "Y" cap

 

Gibbo

[blackrose]

A dodgy (as in leaky) "Y" cap between neutral and earth in the WM could have been causing the original problem of tripping the RCD. It could have also been partly responsible for its refusal to work from the neutral/earth isolated generator (read back through the thread).

 

Running (or rather trying to run) the washing machine from the floating generator could have zapped the leaky cap.

 

And your mate is right. 1 Meg is too low. It would indiciate the remains of a dodgy "Y" cap

 

Gibbo

 

Thanks, I'm going to have a go claiming under the Sale of Goods Act which states that goods must 'conform to contract' for a period of 6 years.

 

Assuming what you say is the problem, am I in any danger of getting a shock from the machine if I continue to use it in the meantime?

[Offcumden]

Thanks, I'm going to have a go claiming under the Sale of Goods Act which states that goods must 'conform to contract' for a period of 6 years.

 

Assuming what you say is the problem, am I in any danger of getting a shock from the machine if I continue to use it in the meantime?

Hi Mike

Hopefully the Y Clamp was the answer I wish you luck with Zanussi I made numerous attempts to find out the maximum surge on our 1300 and on more than one occassion I was told that the machines were only designed to be used in domestic situations. I only managed to get a sensible answer from them when I found a different contact number on a product recall notice, subject to an answer on 'am I in any danger of getting a shock from the machine if I continue to use it in the meantime?' might it not be simplier just to obtain a new clamp from them and have it fitted either now, if there is a danger or later if there is no danger, as and when , it gives up the ghost. Personally I think that you could possibly run into problem with the domestic use front if you try to make a claim

On the Honda genny front we have the Edge Technology Eu20i Gas conversion. Which I start on eco with the 1300 plugged in as well as the Landline linkup to charge the batteries whilst running the washer.

I only have had problems with the genny cuttingout, tripping the washing machine when it was running the 60 cotton cycle whilst my 240 tv was being run from the genny at the same time, the genny stuttered , TV went off Washing machine went into pause mode, genny picked up again and tv came back on switched washer to 60E pressed reset button everything ran fine.

You asked in a previous post for my experiences with the gas conversion only problem was that the intial conection pipe was a little on the short side although usable. Starts ok both from cold (No choke) and hot

Edge technician reccomended occasional run on petrol for lubrication purposes

Hope this helps

John

[Keeping Up]

Hopefully the Y Clamp was the answer

'Cap' (short for capacitor) not 'Clamp'

 

Hope you can get it sorted by Zanussi OK Mike - but they're cheap enough to buy if you can't

[blackrose]

'Cap' (short for capacitor) not 'Clamp'

 

Hope you can get it sorted by Zanussi OK Mike - but they're cheap enough to buy if you can't

 

Surprisingly under the Sale of Goods Act, it is the seller not the manufacturer who is responsible if the goods do not conform to contract.

 

Have a look here: http://www.berr.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

[Gibbo]

Assuming what you say is the problem, am I in any danger of getting a shock from the machine if I continue to use it in the meantime?

 

Impossible to say for certain without pulling it apart and testing it but from the results of your own tests I would say no. The earth continuity tested ok and that's the part that protects you.

 

Gibbo

[tomandsophie]

I recently discovered that our washing machine would no longer run off our cheap 2.2kva petrol generator. It has run off it for nearly 3 years but now it refuses to drain or spin. I have finally got round to borrowing a hookup to plug into and the washing machine has just finished doing a perfect performance of a whole 90 degree wash with three drains and spins. So I now know that it is the generator's dirty output that was the problem. Not a huge surprise there then.

Now the options that are available to us are:

1. Buy a Kipor 2.6kva 'silent' petrol genny (no, we definitely cannot in any way afford a Honda even though I know they are better ) for £360.

2. Buy a 2kw pure sine inverter for £500 ish, although probably can't stretch to this.

3. Buy a 2.5kva diesel generator after checking that it will run our washing machine by trying out our friend's one. That's around £350.

4. Get rid of the washing machine and use the laundrette (would rather keep the washing machine though so the option is there).

What do you reckon?

 

Oh yes, and I forgot to ask the question which was the reason for me typing this post in the first place:

Is there anything that I can buy that will 'smooth out' the dirty output of our current generator? Like some sort of 240v voltage regulator?

[blackrose]

I recently discovered that our washing machine would no longer run off our cheap 2.2kva petrol generator. It has run off it for nearly 3 years but now it refuses to drain or spin. I have finally got round to borrowing a hookup to plug into and the washing machine has just finished doing a perfect performance of a whole 90 degree wash with three drains and spins. So I now know that it is the generator's dirty output that was the problem. Not a huge surprise there then.

Now the options that are available to us are:

1. Buy a Kipor 2.6kva 'silent' petrol genny (no, we definitely cannot in any way afford a Honda even though I know they are better ) for £360.

2. Buy a 2kw pure sine inverter for £500 ish, although probably can't stretch to this.

3. Buy a 2.5kva diesel generator after checking that it will run our washing machine by trying out our friend's one. That's around £350.

4. Get rid of the washing machine and use the laundrette (would rather keep the washing machine though so the option is there).

What do you reckon?

 

Oh yes, and I forgot to ask the question which was the reason for me typing this post in the first place:

Is there anything that I can buy that will 'smooth out' the dirty output of our current generator? Like some sort of 240v voltage regulator?

 

If money's a real issue then I would rule out option 2 because it would probably mean a new set of batteries far earlier than otherwise.

A diesel generator is preferable to a petrol but I imagine a cheap one would be brutally noisy and not endear you to your neighbours. I see that you're going to take the precaution of trying a friend's diesel generator on your washing machine before buying, but had you thought of doing this with the Kipper option as well? I've heard mixed reports about what they will/will not run.

[tomandsophie]

The diesel genny idea is based on our friend's boat into which he has mounted the diesel genny on two half railway sleepers on the swim with the exhaust routed out of a hole in the hull, so it's nice and quiet. Can run it on veg oil for exactly £0 a year too!

I would like to try a Kipor genny as well, but that involves finding some kind soul in the Bath area who has one that I could borrow for an hour.

[blackrose]

The diesel genny idea is based on our friend's boat into which he has mounted the diesel genny on two half railway sleepers on the swim with the exhaust routed out of a hole in the hull, so it's nice and quiet. Can run it on veg oil for exactly £0 a year too!

I would like to try a Kipor genny as well, but that involves finding some kind soul in the Bath area who has one that I could borrow for an hour.

 

Well if you can buy a good diesel generator that cheaply that will run your washing machine then that's the option I'd go for. I've got a Honda EU30i (3kw) that puts out a pure sinewave and will run anything on my boat. I bought it second hand on ebay for a grand which was a fair deal as it's in good condition, but I'd rather have a diesel generator if it was as quiet as the Honda. With petrol you've always got the refuelling and fuel storage safety issues.

[tomandsophie]

Thought I'd post this in case it helps anybody with a similar problem...

I was getting ready to spend loadsa money on a new genny (pure sine one) to replace our cheap (but thus far very reliable - 3 years and still going strong for £99 brand new!) genny because it wouldn't run our washing machine any more for some reason. However, I woke up a couple of days ago with a 'Eureka' moment. Our washing machine would never run off the genny without a 240v light being on at the same time (smooths out the sine wave perhaps, or soaks up peaks of power). About 2 months ago the 100w bulb blew and I replaced it with a 40w one that I had lying around. So yeseterday I nipped down to a local hardware store and spent a grand total of 50p on a 100w bulb. Got home, put it in, and the washing machine ran perfectly all the way through a 90 degree whites wash (the ultimate test!).

[riccol1966]

Thought I'd post this in case it helps anybody with a similar problem...

I was getting ready to spend loadsa money on a new genny (pure sine one) to replace our cheap (but thus far very reliable - 3 years and still going strong for £99 brand new!) genny because it wouldn't run our washing machine any more for some reason. However, I woke up a couple of days ago with a 'Eureka' moment. Our washing machine would never run off the genny without a 240v light being on at the same time (smooths out the sine wave perhaps, or soaks up peaks of power). About 2 months ago the 100w bulb blew and I replaced it with a 40w one that I had lying around. So yeseterday I nipped down to a local hardware store and spent a grand total of 50p on a 100w bulb. Got home, put it in, and the washing machine ran perfectly all the way through a 90 degree whites wash (the ultimate test!).

 

I wonder if my Kipoint (cheap-ish Taiwan) pure sine floating inverter (3KW) will work my washing machine like this, must try it. It didn't run my Candy before but I'm convinced, as per earlier post, that it's not the waveform but the fact that it needs a neutral earth bond 230,0,0 LNE supply, not a 115,115,0 floating supply. Sadly, my inverter cannot be altered, according to the manufacturer, and I noticed that my coffee machine and fridge also wont work. Luckily, my Honda EU20i does work everything once bonded at the plug.

 

Knowing what I know now, I wish the inverters were clearly marked as "can be neutral-earth bonded" because this is hugely important and it often not considered when the initial purchase is being made. Mastervolt seem to do it right...

[Guest TerryL]

I wonder if my Kipoint (cheap-ish Taiwan) pure sine floating inverter (3KW) will work my washing machine like this, must try it. It didn't run my Candy before but I'm convinced, as per earlier post, that it's not the waveform but the fact that it needs a neutral earth bond 230,0,0 LNE supply, not a 115,115,0 floating supply. Sadly, my inverter cannot be altered, according to the manufacturer, and I noticed that my coffee machine and fridge also wont work. Luckily, my Honda EU20i does work everything once bonded at the plug.

 

Knowing what I know now, I wish the inverters were clearly marked as "can be neutral-earth bonded" because this is hugely important and it often not considered when the initial purchase is being made. Mastervolt seem to do it right...

 

I don't see why you can't alter it. All you need do is disconnect and isolate the centre tapping from the earth and then connect your neutral to earth. Easy peasy.

[riccol1966]

I don't see why you can't alter it. All you need do is disconnect and isolate the centre tapping from the earth and then connect your neutral to earth. Easy peasy.

 

I wish I knew enough/was brave enough to do it. Sounds easy from what you say, but never having opened up the casing I would be wary of doing something wrong .. Will ask the manufacturer again as they may be able to provide schematics and walk me through it. Thanks TerryL

[Chris Pink]

I don't see why you can't alter it. All you need do is disconnect and isolate the centre tapping from the earth and then connect your neutral to earth. Easy peasy.

 

You're assuming the inverter goes through a transformer last, is this an assumption or knowledge?

 

If you're wrong there will be a bit of a bang and a very funny smell possibly, if you're really lucky, a big flash as well.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Chris Pink

[Guest TerryL]

You're assuming the inverter goes through a transformer last, is this an assumption or knowledge?

 

If you're wrong there will be a bit of a bang and a very funny smell possibly, if you're really lucky, a big flash as well.

 

Shouldn't make any difference where it comes from, it's only a final connection of three, you don't need a centre tapping. If it's connected internally on the board then it just needs a bit of searching for. It's only a matter of isolating the centre tapping from the earth you will be connecting to your neutral, then there can't be any bangs or potential between the inverter earth and the neutral earth. I'll have a look at mine when I get a moment.