Right hand driving on the canals

[tullemor1]

We rent boats and whenever, we are given a lot of instructions by the rental company before we go out. One of them is that it is actually right hand driving on the canals, as illogically as it might seem in the middle of England, and that normal maritime rules apply also there.

 

Now we have found out that quite a few of you are not aware of this since most of you will steer over to the left side as we approach, which is normally not a big problem, and we can sympatise.

 

However, there is another rule that applies "at sea" and that is that bigger boats have way of right in comparison to smaller boats (which is NOT because they have paid more for they're boats, it's because they are harder to maneuver).

 

We came across kayackers twice along the canals, both times in heavy wind, and as we turned over to the right, so did the kayack, which made it a very dangerous situation. It turned out fine, after a lot of swearing from both sides, specially from the kayacker although he was very much in the wrong. Not only for going to the wrong side, but also because in companison to a canal boat, a kayack has no rights in hell, and he should get into the side (chose whichever) as soon as humanly possible, as soon as one appears in the distance, specially since, if you are chosing to kayack on the canals, you should be aware of how difficult it is to maneuver a canal boat in strong winds.

 

Commercial boats have way of right in comparison to leisure boats and a crossing sailboat has always the right in comparison to a motor boat, but fontunately we didn't enocounter any of those on our trip.

[Chris J W]

Now we have found out that quite a few of you are not aware of this since most of you will steer over to the left side as we approach, which is normally not a big problem, and we can sympatise.

 

Eh? I've only had this happen to me twice (ok, three times; but one of those I was waved over to that side as it was easier for the pair of us). Those two times though ... both been hire boats ... both apologised when 'reminded' and remarked "Sorry - used to driving ..."

[tullemor1]

Eh? I've only had this happen to me twice (ok, three times; but one of those I was waved over to that side as it was easier for the pair of us). Those two times though ... both been hire boats ... both apologised when 'reminded' and remarked "Sorry - used to driving ..."

They obviously haden't listened to the instructions, because you are told every time by the rental companies as they go through the routines with boats, locks and all the accidents that can happen to you if you don't do things right....

[blackrose]

However, there is another rule that applies "at sea" and that is that bigger boats have way of right in comparison to smaller boats (which is NOT because they have paid more for they're boats, it's because they are harder to maneuver).

 

Yes, but you're not at sea. On the inland waterways powered vessels actually give way to unpowered vessels. However, as someone else posted on another thread, although you have to give way, you don't have to get out of the way.

Edited April 26, 2008 by blackrose

[tullemor1]

Yes, but you're not at sea. On the inland waterways powered vessels actually give way to unpowered vessels. However, as someone else posted on another thread, although you have to give way, you don't have to get out of the way.

 

I know that we were not at sea, but we were told that normal maritime rules apply also at the canals, and the smaller kayack has much less problems getting out of the way than a huge canal boat, whether you are at sea or on a canal, so in this instance at least I think it is logical that maritime rules apply also at the canals. As I said, we were told so by the rental company and I am sure they know what they are talking about.

[Keeping Up]

Yes, but you're not at sea. On the inland waterways powered vessels actually give way to unpowered vessels. However, as someone else posted on another thread, although you have to give way, you don't have to get out of the way.

The International Regulations for Avoiding Collisions at Sea, which apply also to any inland waterway that is connected to and navigable by seagoing vessles, could certainly be taken to apply to many of our rivers and possibly the broad canals, say:

 

"Rule 9

 

Narrow Channels

 

(a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

 

( A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

 

My vessel is 20.4 metres long - so out of my way, small-fry

Edited April 26, 2008 by Keeping Up

[tullemor1]

The International Regulations for Avoiding Collisions at Sea, which apply also to any inland waterway that is connected to and navigable by seagoing vessles, could certainly be taken to apply to many of our rivers and possibly the broad canals, say:

 

"Rule 9

 

Narrow Channels

 

(a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

 

( A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

 

My vessel is 20.4 metres long - so out of my way, small-fry

 

Like I said, big boats have way of right!

[NFA]

.............................

Commercial boats have way of right in comparison to leisure boats.......................................

 

Interesting. Where does it state that in the 'Col Regs'?

 

I believe when two motor vessels meet, who has right of way depends on whether you're the overtaking boat, approaching from the port or starboard side, restricted in ability to manoeuvre, narrow channels, fishing vessel, towing another vessel, not under command etc. etc. If it's the latter ones, during the day the correct flags/basket/balls should be flown or at night the correct lights displayed.

 

I am not aware commercial vessels having the right of way over leisure. What confusion this would create. I have mastered vessels that you would look at as being commercial, in excess of 500 tons, they were actually owned by very wealthy people and were purely for leisure. At night, apart from the two white masthead lights, indicating it was a larger vessel, how would you know if the vessel is leisure or commercial?

 

Some boats on the canals and rivers also cross open estuaries and cross the English Channel. I therefore feel it is correct to ensure that owners/captains have the correct information. The Col Regs are there to avoid collisions and should be learnt and adhered to.

 

On the UK canal system it is hardly necessary to learn all the regs. Just turning to starboard on meeting etc. But for those few that do 'put to sea' it is wise to learn and adhere to the Col Regs.

 

I would add that the Royal or Merchant Navy also do not have any ' right of way' in comparison to leisure vessels.

 

The Col Regs, apart from other things, covers the meeting of two motor vessels, irrespective of size, commercial, leisure etc.

 

However Tullemor1, if there has been an update to the Col Regs promulgated, of which I am not aware, please advise me immediately.

[tullemor1]

Interesting. Where does it state that in the 'Col Regs'?

 

I believe when two motor vessels meet, who has right of way depends on whether you're the overtaking boat, approaching from the port or starboard side, restricted in ability to manoeuvre, narrow channels, fishing vessel, towing another vessel, not under command etc. etc. If it's the latter ones, during the day the correct flags/basket/balls should be flown or at night the correct lights displayed.

 

I am not aware commercial vessels having the right of way over leisure. What confusion this would create. I have mastered vessels that you would look at as being commercial, in excess of 500 tons, they were actually owned by very wealthy people and were purely for leisure. At night, apart from the two white masthead lights, indicating it was a larger vessel, how would you know if the vessel is leisure or commercial?

 

Some boats on the canals and rivers also cross open estuaries and cross the English Channel. I therefore feel it is correct to ensure that owners/captains have the correct information. The Col Regs are there to avoid collisions and should be learnt and adhered to.

 

On the UK canal system it is hardly necessary to learn all the regs. Just turning to starboard on meeting etc. But for those few that do 'put to sea' it is wise to learn and adhere to the Col Regs.

 

I would add that the Royal or Merchant Navy also do not have any ' right of way' in comparison to leisure vessels.

 

The Col Regs, apart from other things, covers the meeting of two motor vessels, irrespective of size, commercial, leisure etc.

 

However Tullemor1, if there has been an update to the Col Regs promulgated, of which I am not aware, please advise me immediately.

[tullemor1]

We are normally at sea with a sailboat, and whether you pass a boat on the left or right side doesen't matter much since there normally are more than enough room on both sides. We are living in the middle of the shipping lead going in to Oslo and if you don't keep out of the way of the commercial vessels, whether it's a freighter or a cruise ship (and I guess huge private yachts are included here, even if they are leisure boats) they (or the police) will tell you, and if we really want to irritate fellow boaters we just start crossing in the middle of a lot of motor boats in a narrow fjord although both they and we know that we are in our right and they have to give way. But I have no idea where it is stated - in English at least.

 

But it seems quite logically to me that a small boat have to give way to a big one. Kayacks are among the smallest boats both at sea and on the canals and they are very easy to maneuver (if you know what you are doing), and a sailboat is dependent on the wind and can sometimes have a hard time maneuvering out of the way in comparison to a motor boat (or a kayack). A sailboat or a motor boat goes also much deeper into the sea and moving over to the side can in some cases be impossible if you are close to land for all but the kayack. Because of winds and currents, kayacking in the Oslo fjord is considered the ultimate challenge for kayackers(and sailboarders), but they better stay away from all boats sails or motors (which I guess is also part of the challenge of kayacking in the Oslo fjord) because they have no rights what so ever (and they should know it).

[Keeping Up]

When all the boats were sailing-boats, the rules were well defined. Then when the first powered boats appeared, some desk-bound chappie in the Admiralty decided to draw up a set of rules for the Thames Estuary. He decreed that boats coming in from the sea should keep to their left whereas boats heading out to sea should keep to their right. It took three head-on collisions, with loss of life, before he accepted that his plan wasn't quite perfect!

[blackrose]

The International Regulations for Avoiding Collisions at Sea, which apply also to any inland waterway that is connected to and navigable by seagoing vessles, could certainly be taken to apply to many of our rivers and possibly the broad canals, say:

 

"Rule 9

 

Narrow Channels

 

(a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

 

( A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

 

My vessel is 20.4 metres long - so out of my way, small-fry

 

So where does the expression "Motor gives way to sail" that I've heard so many times come from, and why are we expected to give way to small sailing boats and oar powered vessels on the Thames? That's just the commonly accepted behaviour as far as I am aware. I do wish people would make up their minds on this one as it's basic stuff that everyone should know and any ambiguity could have disaterous consequences.

Edited April 26, 2008 by blackrose

[tullemor1]

So where does the expression "Motor gives way to sail" that I've heard so many times come from and why are we expected to give way to small sailing boats and oar powered vessels on the Thames?

Motor boats should give way to "crossing sailboats", if the sailboat has motor or is not crossing, it will be counted as a motor boat.

[Keeping Up]

So where does the expression "Motor gives way to sail" that I've heard so many times come from, and why are we expected to give way to small sailing boats and oar powered vessels on the Thames? That's just the commonly accepted knowledge as far as I am aware. I do wish people would make up their minds on this one as it's basic stuff that everyone should know and any ambiguity could have disaterous consequences.

 

"Rule 18

 

Responsibilities Between Vessels

 

Except where rule 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

 

(a)A power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

 

(i)a vessel not under command;

 

(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;

 

(iii)a vessel engaged in fishing;

 

(iv)a sailing vessel;"

 

On the Thames if you are over 20 metres or are otherwise restricted in your ability to manoevre, you need not give way to small sailing vessels. However they may be unaware of this, and there is an over-riding consideration that you must take whatever action is necessary to avoid a collision

[NB Alnwick]

So where does the expression "Motor gives way to sail" that I've heard so many times come from and why are we expected to give way to small sailing boats and oar powered vessels on the Thames?

 

I have heard it too but it isn't implicit in the regs. As for 'driving' on the right on canals, this is not really correct - it is always best to position your boat in the middle of the channel where the water is deepest and only move to the right when another craft approaches - the skipper of the approaching craft should do the same in order to avoid a collision. This becomes more difficult with deep draughted vessels on poorly maintained canals but when an approaching boat is unable to manouvre because he is already 'on the bottom' this should be apparent in time to take avoiding  action.

[blackrose]

"Rule 18

 

Responsibilities Between Vessels

 

Except where rule 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

 

(a)A power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

 

(i)a vessel not under command;

 

(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;

 

(iii)a vessel engaged in fishing;

 

(iv)a sailing vessel;"

 

On the Thames if you are over 20 metres or are otherwise restricted in your ability to manoevre, you need not give way to small sailing vessels. However they may be unaware of this, and there is an over-riding consideration that you must take whatever action is necessary to avoid a collision

 

So small boats do not necessarily give way to larger vessels - this only applies in certain circumstances, I see.

 

 

Motor boats should give way to "crossing sailboats"

 

Ok, so in this case the larger vessel gives way...

 

"Rule 18

 

Responsibilities Between Vessels

 

Except where rule 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

 

(a)A power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

 

(i)a vessel not under command;

 

(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;

 

(iii)a vessel engaged in fishing;

 

(iv)a sailing vessel;"

 

On the Thames if you are over 20 metres or are otherwise restricted in your ability to manoevre, you need not give way to small sailing vessels. However they may be unaware of this, and there is an over-riding consideration that you must take whatever action is necessary to avoid a collision

 

iv) seems to indicate that motor should always give way to sail, irrespective of whether the sailing boat is crossing the channel unless it is over 20m? So my 17.3m, 32 tonne widebeam should always give way I guess?

Edited April 26, 2008 by blackrose

[moggyjo]

We had a bit of a 'mare in the Trent Lock area, when there were about a dozen sail boats, flapping about all over the place. A bloke on one of them shouted to us "Give way to sail" but honestly they were darting about all over the place.

[cheshire~rose]

I am not aware commercial vessels having the right of way over leisure. What confusion this would create. I have mastered vessels that you would look at as being commercial, in excess of 500 tons, they were actually owned by very wealthy people and were purely for leisure. At night, apart from the two white masthead lights, indicating it was a larger vessel, how would you know if the vessel is leisure or commercial?

 

I was under the impression commercial vessels have right of way as well. I base this upon what we were told when we hired a boat to do (what was then known as) the Pennine Ring.

 

We met a few sand/ gravel barges and there is not way we would have wanted to argue with one of those. We "gave away" our lock up near Leeds to one of these vast beasts. We had intended to anyway as we were under the impression that was the protocol but a BW team arrived and advised us that is what we should be doing (just in case we were in any doubt)

 

I think I have also given way to trip boats before now on the basis that they are commercial craft?

 

On the canal it is reasonably easy to tell a commercial craft but I can see it could be far from easy on a river on occasions.

[tidal]

The Colregs are pretty clear IF you read them in there entirety but as far as large vessels go it is always worth remembering the little ditty

 

"Here lies the body of Michael O'Day,

who died maintaining the right of way.

He was right, dead right, as he sailed along,

but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.""

 

[PaulG]

We had a bit of a 'mare in the Trent Lock area, when there were about a dozen sail boats, flapping about all over the place.

 

They were probably racing.

 

A bloke on one of them shouted to us "Give way to sail" but honestly they were darting about all over the place.

 

The one that shouted would have been at the back. Bad dinghy sailors shout at powerboats in the same way as fishermen with empty keep nets shout at powerboats.

 

It's easier to blame someone else than admit that you're cr@p at your chosen sport!

[carlt]

I was under the impression commercial vessels have right of way as well. I base this upon what we were told when we hired a boat to do (what was then known as) the Pennine Ring.

This does not apply to the narrow boat hobbyist, btw.

 

The President Trust, among others, frequently express the fantasy that they have an acquired right of way, inherited from the days their boats actually carried, commercially.

 

I would add, though, if you see an ex-working motor approaching, they will be drawing in excess of 3 feet, so it would be polite to give them the centre channel.

 

edited to add "ex-"

Edited April 29, 2008 by carlt

[MartinClark]

I was under the impression commercial vessels have right of way as well. I base this upon what we were told when we hired a boat to do (what was then known as) the Pennine Ring.

What is it known as now?

 

We met a few sand/ gravel barges and there is not way we would have wanted to argue with one of those. We "gave away" our lock up near Leeds to one of these vast beasts. We had intended to anyway as we were under the impression that was the protocol but a BW team arrived and advised us that is what we should be doing (just in case we were in any doubt)

On the Aire and Calder you are expected to give way to the commercial barges. The BW lock keepers will require you to give way at locks. Some of the locks are big enough for you to fit in as well, but they will need to enter first (and you wouldn't want to argue with that!). The big oil and sand barges will travel faster than you on the long straights between the locks, anyway, especially when going downstream empty.

 

I think I have also given way to trip boats before now on the basis that they are commercial craft?

I have seen cases where lock keepers on the Trent and Thames have given trip boats priority over a queue of private boats waiting for the lock.

[Machpoint005]

snip>>> A bloke on one of them shouted to us "Give way to sail" but honestly they were darting about all over the place.

 

The response to that, IMHO, is 'I'll give way to you when I can see which way you are going'.

 

Point taken about giving way to larger vessels. But when specifically on the canal for leisure purposes, why would anyone be in such a hurry that they wouldn't want to give way in any case? It's not a problem to stop and wait (given a bit of anticipation on the part of the helmsman).

 

As regards a lock keeper bending or altering the rules, I'd have thought that it made sense to follow their instructions rather than having an argument, even if they were wrong. Those guys are paid to be 'right', and have responsibilities we cruisers are completely unaware of.

 

Ian

[barge sara]

As I said, we were told so by the rental company and I am sure they know what they are talking about.

 

?????!

 

John

MV Sara.

[blackrose]

We had a bit of a 'mare in the Trent Lock area, when there were about a dozen sail boats, flapping about all over the place. A bloke on one of them shouted to us "Give way to sail" but honestly they were darting about all over the place.

 

I had the same experience on the Thames at Cookham. As soon as I pulled out of my mooring about 20 small sailing boats decided to tack from the middle of the river right across my path. I stopped the boat but they were all following each other right in front of the bows of my boat and then tacking back. I didn't care that much I just thought it was a bit stupid and dangerous, but then the instructor started shouting at me to get out of the way! Where did he expect me to go - I'm not a mindreader and had no idea where they were going next - I'm not sure they even knew themselves! Anyway, I just stayed put until they'd all cleared my path and then carried on. I was just lucky it wasn't windy so I could hold steady in the water.