Electrical layout

[Greybeard]

Hi

 

I would guess there's no such thing as a basic layout for the electrical components for an NB.

 

Has anyone got a layout that they could pass on or any tips on do's and dont's.

 

Not a wiring diagram but the layout of all the toys and stuff!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm looking for the mains supply is connected to the switch board - the switch board is connected to the charger - the chargers connected to the knee bone sort of thing but with any add ons that I may be able to pinch! (there may be a beer or two in it if there's anything really clever ie teleporting, warp speed or suchlike)

 

I'll be retro-fitting a cruiser stern which is currently powered by an egg timer a 3aaa batteries.

 

I'm not asking for trade secrets just good & reliable layouts FOR A BEGINNER PLEASE.

 

Thanks.

[Chris J W]

THIS may well be of aid.

[steelaway]

Hi

 

I would guess there's no such thing as a basic layout for the electrical components for an NB.

 

Has anyone got a layout that they could pass on or any tips on do's and dont's.

 

Not a wiring diagram but the layout of all the toys and stuff!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm looking for the mains supply is connected to the switch board - the switch board is connected to the charger - the chargers connected to the knee bone sort of thing but with any add ons that I may be able to pinch! (there may be a beer or two in it if there's anything really clever ie teleporting, warp speed or suchlike)

 

I'll be retro-fitting a cruiser stern which is currently powered by an egg timer a 3aaa batteries.

 

I'm not asking for trade secrets just good & reliable layouts FOR A BEGINNER PLEASE.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Hi There

PM me with your email and I will send you some diagrams.

 

Allex

[chris w]

THIS may well be of aid.

 

It's a "Janet and John" book Chris and doesn't go beyond elementary concepts. Nothing "proper" about charging or alternators etc.

 

Chris

[Chris J W]

It's a "Janet and John" book Chris and doesn't go beyond elementary concepts. Nothing "proper" about charging or alternators etc.

 

Chris

 

Nothing wrong with starting from basics.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Chris J W

[chris w]

Nothing wrong with starting from basics.

 

IMHO there is. When somebody knows pretty much nothing about boat electrics, he/she gets someone else in to sort it out. The trouble with just learning the basics is that you won't know just how basic that is and, as they say, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Never was this more true than with boat electrics, where getting it wrong can range from expensive through dangerous to lethal. The problem is that the reader of such a book above, may not appreciate that this is just the tip of the iceberg and fail to understand the secondary effects etc. undertaking something which is beyond their skillset but they don't know it.

 

I would recommend a good course in conjunction with a couple of good books.

 

Chris

[magnetman]

I find a good bodge does wonders for my skillset

 

I find a good bodge does wonders for my skillset

[Greybeard]

IMHO there is. When somebody knows pretty much nothing about boat electrics, he/she gets someone else in to sort it out. The trouble with just learning the basics is that you won't know just how basic that is and, as they say, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Never was this more true than with boat electrics, where getting it wrong can range from expensive through dangerous to lethal. The problem is that the reader of such a book above, may not appreciate that this is just the tip of the iceberg and fail to understand the secondary effects etc. undertaking something which is beyond their skillset but they don't know it.

 

I would recommend a good course in conjunction with a couple of good books.

 

Chris

 

Totally with you on that.

 

What I intended was to do some of the installation myself and then have it 'commissioned ' by someone who knows what they're doing.

 

I really want to have hands on where I can and pass the rest on.

 

Whilst I'll admit that a lot of the items are very specialised I will add that I was a plant mechanic for a number of years working on petrol & diesel engines and 110v drilling equipment.

 

We run a fleet of robotic demolition machines powered by 3phase electric and employ technicians to repair them so I'm not short of 'expertise' who could check out my efforts before I fried myself or my family.

 

Thanks for your response and your concerns. Most appreciated.

[Chris J W]

IMHO there is. When somebody knows pretty much nothing about boat electrics, he/she gets someone else in to sort it out. The trouble with just learning the basics is that you won't know just how basic that is and, as they say, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Never was this more true than with boat electrics, where getting it wrong can range from expensive through dangerous to lethal. The problem is that the reader of such a book above, may not appreciate that this is just the tip of the iceberg and fail to understand the secondary effects etc. undertaking something which is beyond their skillset but they don't know it.

 

I would recommend a good course in conjunction with a couple of good books.

 

Chris

 

In that case, then, I utterly apologise for trying to help someone.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Chris J W

[Keeping Up]

Don't forget to look for the other replies in your parallel threads Greybeard - unless and until one of the mods merges the threads that is.

[dor]

I can let you have a fujll wiring diagram of my boat if you PM me your email. I know others have offered, but it helps to look at different ways of doing it. And before anyone says something, it has been checked by a qualified marine surveyor.

[Greybeard]

Don't forget to look for the other replies in your parallel threads Greybeard - unless and until one of the mods merges the threads that is.

 

Yes Yes Yes Sorry Sorry Sorry ................

 

You get the idea.

 

Laptop threw a wobbly and having a nightmare with the site as I can't seem to log on and then when I post it freezes and I don't know if it's been sent or not.

 

I'll get there eventually.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Greybeard

[Lol]

Yes Yes Yes Sorry Sorry Sorry ................

 

You get the idea.

 

Laptop threw a wobbly and having a nightmare with the site as I can't seem to log on and then when I post it freezes and I don't know if it's been sent or not.

 

I'll get there eventually.

 

the fun is in the journey not the arrival

[Chris J W]

the fun is in the journey not the arrival

 

Never been long distance on GNER, then!

[smileypete]

I'm not asking for trade secrets just good & reliable layouts FOR A BEGINNER PLEASE.

 

I'd highly recommend reading the electrical section on Tony Brooks excellent website:

 

http://www.tb-training.co.uk/cover.html

 

Make some notes to help memorise it, and ask any questions back here.

 

 

Why not start with a simple layout for part of the 12v lighting which should be reasonably straightforward?

 

If you make a diagram and post it here, I'm sure you'd get some constructive criticism (hopefully! )

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited April 2, 2008 by smileypete

[chris w]

Don't forget to look for the other replies in your parallel threads Greybeard - unless and until one of the mods merges the threads that is.

 

Maybe it would be better if we answered the questions on this copy of the thread on the other copy of the thread and vice versa. Would that save the mods the trouble of having to merge them?

 

Chris

Edited April 2, 2008 by chris w

[Greybeard]

Maybe it would be better if we answered the questions on this copy of the thread on the other copy of the thread and vice versa. Would that save the mods the trouble of having to merge them?

 

Chris

 

Sorry guys. Slapped wrist accepted.

[chris w]

Sorry guys. Slapped wrist accepted.

 

I was only joking

 

Chris

[Greybeard]

I'd highly recommend reading the electrical section on Tony Brooks excellent website:

 

http://www.tb-training.co.uk/cover.html

 

Make some notes to help memorise it, and ask any questions back here.

 

 

Why not start with a simple layout for part of the 12v lighting which should be reasonably straightforward?

 

If you make a diagram and post it here, I'm sure you'd get some constructive criticism (hopefully! )

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Sounds like a plan.

 

I'm down at weekend so will start from there.

 

Allegedly I might become the owner in the next few days so can get on board whenever I want.

 

Note I said allegedly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NB Alnwick]

Never been long distance on GNER, then!

 

I have (several times) and have always thoroughly enjoyed the experience - but then I do have a First Class Pass

 

I hope the new franchisee will perform as well in the restaurant car department . . .

[Chris J W]

I have (several times) and have always thoroughly enjoyed the experience - but then I do have a First Class Pass

 

I hope the new franchisee will perform as well in the restaurant car department . . .

 

Next time we meet remind me to tell you the tale of an "disagreement" at work about me going First Class from London to Scotland!

 

GNER never gave as good 'freebies' as, and I'm loathe to say this, Virgin. Went with Virgin to London to Bristol and walk off with nearly a dozen small bottles of wine left over Anyway, sorry, drifting OT!

[DHutch]

Don't forget to look for the other replies in your parallel threads Greybeard - unless and until one of the mods merges the threads that is.

Done.

- I'll read the rest of the thread in a bit as well!

[chris w]

I'd highly recommend reading the electrical section on Tony Brooks excellent website:

 

http://www.tb-training.co.uk/cover.html

 

Make some notes to help memorise it, and ask any questions back here.

 

 

Why not start with a simple layout for part of the 12v lighting which should be reasonably straightforward?

 

If you make a diagram and post it here, I'm sure you'd get some constructive criticism (hopefully! )

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

 

There are two parts, in a sense, to electrics on boats (or anywhere else I guess). Firstly, there is the circuit diagram, as suggested above, which is the theoretical layout for distribution, switching, generation, charging, cable sizes, battery sizes, etc etc. Secondly, there is the physical side of actually implementing the layout in terms of routing, junction boxes, fusing, connections, crimps, safety etc etc.

 

These are both important but mutually exclusive skills and both have to be learnt well to feel confident about electrics on one's boat. An electric system designer may be great at working out all the maths and the physics etc but crap at physically installing the actual system and vice versa.

 

When one is cruising, on a self-contained microcosm (our boat), we need to know how to diagnose faults (with reference to the circuit diagram) and we need to know how to fix them too in a mechanical sense. Without both of these skills, learnt through some type course/study etc, one is otherwise still at the mercy of finding that rare commodity - a competent outsider - if problems occur whilst out on the water.

 

Chris

[Tony Brooks]

There are two parts, in a sense, to electrics on boats (or anywhere else I guess). Firstly, there is the circuit diagram, as suggested above, which is the theoretical layout for distribution, switching, generation, charging, cable sizes, battery sizes, etc etc. Secondly, there is the physical side of actually implementing the layout in terms of routing, junction boxes, fusing, connections, crimps, safety etc etc.

 

These are both important but mutually exclusive skills and both have to be learnt well to feel confident about electrics on one's boat. An electric system designer may be great at working out all the maths and the physics etc but crap at physically installing the actual system and vice versa.

 

When one is cruising, on a self-contained microcosm (our boat), we need to know how to diagnose faults (with reference to the circuit diagram) and we need to know how to fix them too in a mechanical sense. Without both of these skills, learnt through some type course/study etc, one is otherwise still at the mercy of finding that rare commodity - a competent outsider - if problems occur whilst out on the water.

 

Chris

 

 

Which is exactly why the pages mentioned above are related to a training course and also why ongoing email support is provided.

 

This also explains why Chris & I appear to differ on things like the voltdrop thread.

 

Those pages also gives insights into everything Chris lists apart from anything to do with mains. I know my alternator/battery calcs are nowhere near as sophisticated as the (correct) ones Chris would use, but taken with the input from the course should be a good guide without heavy maths etc. The only thing we can not do is to get to grips with the problems in actually running the wiring and fixing the components in a boat.

 

Some of the stuff I see that has allegedly been done by boatyards and paid for scares me and I just do not understand a professional in inland marine electrics who thinks he knows better than equipment manufacturers - even if the maths, on the facts he has, says he is right.

[smileypete]

IMHO there is. When somebody knows pretty much nothing about boat electrics, he/she gets someone else in to sort it out. The trouble with just learning the basics is that you won't know just how basic that is and, as they say, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Never was this more true than with boat electrics, where getting it wrong can range from expensive through dangerous to lethal. The problem is that the reader of such a book above, may not appreciate that this is just the tip of the iceberg and fail to understand the secondary effects etc. undertaking something which is beyond their skillset but they don't know it.

 

I would recommend a good course in conjunction with a couple of good books.

Why not recommend a book or course in particular, or offer useful advice of your own, instead of just criticising others advice, and saying this can happen and this may happen, and it'll all end in tears

 

 

It's a "Janet and John" book Chris and doesn't go beyond elementary concepts. Nothing "proper" about charging or alternators etc.

Reading the exchanges between you and Gibbo, it seems there really is nothing 'proper' about charging or alternators.

 

cheers,

Pete.