Live aboard costs

[Tusses]

I have read with interest the arguments for and against selling up the bricks and sailing off into the sunset !

 

It is often mentioned that living on a boat is more expensive that in a house.

 

I must admit - I dont get it ?

 

unless you all mean having a residential mooring somewhere.

 

At the moment our mortgage is £850 a month...

 

So - what are ALL the costs of living on the IW

 

I am thinking of CC'ing. (true CC'ing - not bridge hopping! )

 

So - I'll start ...

 

Cost of boat!

License

Insurance

BSC

Diesel

Heating

Cooking

Blacking/painting

Food

Sundries - such as blue (or green), Water sterilization, pins, windlass's.

Servicing and maintenance

 

what's the rest ?

[Chris Pink]

what's the rest ?

 

champagne, cocaine and caviar, without which boatie life would be very very hard indeed.

[Tusses]

champagne, cocaine and caviar, without which boatie life would be very very hard indeed.

 

 

[NB Willawaw]

Surely, it largely depends on the monthly repayments of your mortgage ??

 

Depending on the age of the mortgage, the monthly repayments can vary widely ??

[Tusses]

but the message that seems to come across in th forum threads is that living on a boat is more expensive ?

 

Take the mortgage out of it then - just leave water rates, council tax, gas, electric, buildings and contents insurance, etc etc

[Lady Muck]

It's all relative. Our costs are about the same. Two years ago boating was a bit cheaper but in that two years boating has gone up (for us) by about £1200, due to rising costs (mooring, license,diesel coal and gas have all gone up). It's gonna be very expensive to cruise when the diesel derogation ends. Course you can do it really cheap (especially in summer), but whats your standard of living? I'm quite happy to use a boiled kettle on the solid fuel stove (or solar showers in summer) to heat water for washing up or showers (to save gas and diesel), but other people might think that's a bit basic. If you have high standards then it is going to cost alot more than living in a house.

You don't have to buy coal for heating if you can be bothered to scavenge for /chop wood. You can do all your own maintenance (we always do our own reblacking, for instance), but all this is hard work and not everyone wants to live like that.

[saltysplash]

but the message that seems to come across in th forum threads is that living on a boat is more expensive ?

 

 

its not more expensive but it is no cheaper unless your buying the boat with cash and truly CC. everything is kinda relative. i suppose the cheaper part comes in if your forking out 60k for a 2 bed coffin or 200k for a 2 bed flat

[drunkensailor]

Generally speaking, there's lots more maintenance to be done on a boat than there is on a car, and some of it you probably won't be able to do yourself.

A steel boat will need reblacking, but as it gets older it may need overplating, which can run into thousands of pounds. Mechanical failures are likely too, none of which tends to be a problem with a house.

That said, it's a great life and I wouldn't want to put you off for a second.

Chris

[NB Willawaw]

To try and make comparisons is very difficult for the reasons already given.

 

It depends on lifestyle.

 

For me boating is more expensive than the house.

 

However, Willawaw is a newish, well fitted-out boat and does not have a home mooring.

I move from location to location on a gold licence, usually paying for

overnight or when I have to leave the boat for a few weeks, short term moorings at boatyards etc.

 

I tend to run the heating on DERV and shuttle the car to meet the boat, so I have transport on tap

for work.

 

That is the way I choose to live and it is not cheap (my choice), but it is necessary in the situation.

 

Now, I'm sure its possible to live on a boat more cheaply than a house depending on what you want.

Edited March 25, 2008 by NB Willawaw

[Chris Pink]

I think the problem here is comparing like with like, which house? which boat? There are cheap houses and expensive boats and, obviously, cheap boats and expensive houses. My maintenance costs would pale into insignificance compared to putting a new roof onto any kind of house or replacing the windows in a grade 1 listed townhouse. But a local authority social housing flat would probably be as cheap as anything.

 

Likewise Bill Gates probably has a fair old budget for his yacht and i have recently looked at a few boats that rate their fuel costs in gallons per hour. But i know someone who lives on a fibreglass cruiser and winters in Nepal and i count him as near to zero in housing costs as you get outside of a tent in the woods (there's more of them around than you might think).

 

So really what it comes down to is not to choose to live on a boat, or in a house, on economic grounds but to weigh the other pluses and minuses of the respective lifestyles.

[boatbot]

I have read with interest the arguments for and against selling up the bricks and sailing off into the sunset !

 

It is often mentioned that living on a boat is more expensive that in a house.

 

I must admit - I dont get it ?

 

unless you all mean having a residential mooring somewhere.

 

At the moment our mortgage is £850 a month...

 

So - what are ALL the costs of living on the IW

I am thinking of CC'ing. (true CC'ing - not bridge hopping! )

 

So - I'll start ...

 

Cost of boat!

License

Insurance

BSC

Diesel

Heating

Cooking

Blacking/painting

Food

Sundries - such as blue (or green), Water sterilization, pins, windlass's.

Servicing and maintenance

 

what's the rest ?

 

It all depends, it all depends... thats not what he wants to hear-He needs to get an idea for a budget and compare it to his house budget at the moment-I can supply u with an excel document where other boaters have sent me their budgets-Its an overall average that gives u the costings per week-I am looking to do the same in regards to costings but the figures have surprised me as it appears that costs such as diesel is coming in at 18-20 pounds per week due to winter running

(heating, movement). So it would depend if u are an all year liveaboard or cruise just for the summer for instance. Moorings costs vary enormously from expensive marinas to continually cruising (which is what u want to do, so u will save here)-What people should do here is simple post their yearly, monthly or weekly expenses according to their particular circumstances-then u can average it out and decide which situation u can want or can budget to. Other savings could be TV license, council tax, high electricity/gas costs, BT line, just to name a few BUT this is counterbalanced by diesel costs, Licence, Mooring(if u need to be in one place), blacking, maintenance, insurance, BSC. What type of boat are u looking at? Generally if u have a mortgage u pretty well under the cosh-if u can sell your property and buy a boat outright and maybe invest in a small flat (with the rest) that would be good as a boat does not increase in value like house property unless u can buy a boat cheaply and sell on.

[Bones]

Look here clicky

[NB Alnwick]

This topic has been debated many times on here and the real answer is often avoided:

 

If you want to live cheaply - living on a boat may not be the best option.

 

Historically, boats depreciate and your capital outlay in purchasing one will not hold its own as an 'investment' in the same way as it might if you bought a house or flat - again I am only comparing historical performance.

 

Renting a boat or borrowing money to buy one is also likely to be much more costly than renting or borrowing for a comparable house, flat or mobile home.

 

If you are working and need to moor a boat near your place of employment complete with a parking space for your car (if you need one), then you will certainly pay a lot more for a static residential mooring (as well as council tax where appropriate) than if you are cruising the inland waterway network.

 

On the other hand if you just want to go boating, have sufficient private funds so that you do not need to work and you are the sort of person who enjoys a simple life, it is possible to enjoy life afloat comparatively cheaply. Once you have bought a boat, reckon on between £750 and £2,500 a year for licences and moorings (that does depend on boat length, where you go and where you moor), about £1,500 a year for fuel (diesel, gas, coal and petrol/diesel for the stand-by generator) and another £1,000 a year for maintenance and contingencies - all other costs (clothing, food, personal hygiene, public transport, motoring etc.) will be much the same as living in a house.

Edited March 26, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[NB Alnwick]

Look here clicky

 

Thanks Bones - I remember doing the work on that but what is really frightening is, in those days, we bought our weekly bottle of Whisky from Lidl's for under £7.00 - inflation and the Chancellor's budget have increased that by around £100 a year!

[Tusses]

Look here clicky

 

Thanks Bones .

 

It seems as tho there is a huge difference from living on a boat and living it up on a boat !

 

As for the boat price - I have a 57' at the moment. brand new shell and engine, I will be slowly fitting it out.

 

So far its at sailaway stage (battoned - spray foamed - lined and floored. and Windows in. It owes me around £25k at the moment

 

To all intents and purposes - I could live on it now, porta potti - mattress and camp stove !

 

I live cheaply anyway in the house - free wood for the stove - couple of kettle on top for hot water (this is our only hot water except for an electric kettle and an electric shower.

 

no central heating - hot water heater is never switched on ....

 

I cook rather than buy cooked.

 

I read rather than watch TV

 

etc etc

 

I would imagine if you combine cruising - maybe an hour or so a day, you meet the CC requirements, and charge your batteries, and get your hot water !

 

I wonder how long it would take to see the whole canal system at an hour a day

[Lady Muck]

Work out how much diesel you'll use in an hour, work out the cost of that diesel and there you have it - your budget!

[saltysplash]

If your truly committed to life afloat then you will do it regardless of cost, if your not sure and want reassurance as to cost then i'd say forgot it. Stop looking for a cheap altenative coz there aint one unless you dont need to work or money is no object.

[Tusses]

If your truly committed to life afloat then you will do it regardless of cost, if your not sure and want reassurance as to cost then i'd say forgot it. Stop looking for a cheap altenative coz there aint one unless you dont need to work or money is no object.

 

ok - lets put another angle on it ...

 

I could live cheap on land - rent a bedsit in ghetto land somewhere, with filth and crime for a view.

 

or ...

 

I could live for similar living costs, and pull the pins if I dont like the view (or the neighbors)

 

so - cheap is relative.

 

I want peace - solitude - nice countryside.. etc etc

 

I cant afford that on land !

[saltysplash]

ok - lets put another angle on it ...

 

I could live cheap on land - rent a bedsit in ghetto land somewhere, with filth and crime for a view.

 

or ...

 

I could live for similar living costs, and pull the pins if I dont like the view (or the neighbors)

 

so - cheap is relative.

 

I want peace - solitude - nice countryside.. etc etc

 

I cant afford that on land !

 

Caravan?

[Chickadee]

Caravan?

 

Easyer said than done when you try to find somewhere hastle free to put one.

 

Plus my 42ft NB has more space in some areas than the static van that i lived in.

Nice having a field as my back garden though.

[chris w]

its not more expensive but it is no cheaper unless your buying the boat with cash .................................

 

 

This is a common misnomer and is rarely true. It's one of the reasons companies often use debt instead of equity. (Another reason is to show greater ROE of course). Strange as it may sound, to any non-financial people, raising money through debt is generally cheaper for a company than raising money through sale of shares. Of course too much debt has other effects and so a balance is struck between debt and equity.

 

 

However, back to the real world. Suppose you had £100K cash and wanted to buy a house for £100K. You could pay out the cash and have no debt or you could get a £100K mortgage (we'll assume you can get a 100% mortgage for this exercise).

 

Suppose you choose a £100K repayment mortgage over 25 years at say 6% (we'll assume fixed rate for this exercise) - that's a monthly repayment of £644.

 

If you pay out £100K cash in order to have no mortgage, you instantly forego about £450 a month in lost interest (at say 5%). In addition, you have lost the time value of money, due to inflation (say 4%), which will virtually double the true loss to close to £900 per month. In other words the £644 a month you are paying today on that mortgage may seem a burden but that burden decreases as the time value of money takes effect.

 

We can ignore tax because, although you would pay tax on the capital interest of course, your mortgage payments are also post-tax. Further there are clever (and legal) ways of avoiding tax which would mitigate the full nominal tax burden.

 

I ran the numbers for 25 years assuming a fixed 6% mortgage rate, inflation at 4% and interest on capital of 5%.

 

The actual time-adjusted real total you would have, based on these numbers, if you kept the cash is £326K at the end of 25 years.

 

The actual time-adjusted real cost of your mortgage will be £121K. So the net time-adjusted gain , by taking the mortgage is £205K. ie: if you took the mortgage route you would be over £200K better off in real-terms at the end of 25 years.

 

Chris

[Orca]

Interesting - but have to say I would still put the money down and do away with a mortgage or boat payments (which I've done!). I think that scenario places too much confidence in an ever worsening global financial climate and one that currently cannot be subject to any kind of real-term extrapolation.

 

Edited to say: Also, I think the situation with more short term 'marine mortgages' or loans is different than 25 year 'Bricks & Mortar' payments. I looked at a 10 year Barclays MM and the interest rates were outrageous - much more than what I would have got over a similar period with the cash sitting around! So I just whacked the lot down in one. IMO buying a boat outright is the cheaper option..

Edited March 29, 2008 by Orca

[chris w]

Interesting - but have to say I would still put the money down and do away with a mortgage or boat payments (which I've done!). I think that scenario places too much confidence in an ever worsening global financial climate and one that currently cannot be subject to any kind of real-term extrapolation.

 

Edited to say: Also, I think the situation with more short term 'marine mortgages' or loans is different than 25 year 'Bricks & Mortar' payments. I looked at a 10 year Barclays MM and the interest rates were outrageous - much more than what I would have got over a similar period with the cash sitting around! So I just whacked the lot down in one. IMO buying a boat outright is the cheaper option..

 

There are of course many non-financial reasons too for which choice to make. Not having a mortgage "hanging over you" may give wonderful peace of mind to many regardless of whether it's the best financial option or not. Of course, if you think that inflation will increase due to "an ever worsening financial climate" then that is even more reason (financially) not to put the cash down, contrary to what you suggest.

 

I agree that marine mortgages have (usually) worse terms than house morgages but I was looking at the case where you have the cash or you could increase your house mortgage to finance the boat. Contrary to what I espouse above, and to illustrate it's not just financial reasons, I still paid cash for my new boat !!

 

Chris

[Ex- Member]

That's some interesting figures Chris W has mentioned. However We're fortunate enough to have no debt, the boat is paid fully paid for, so when we eventually get to live and cruise full time, all we have to worry about is food and fuel.

 

Chris's figures might make sense, but as long as you owe money IMO you have no real freedom.

 

What would interest me is the actual weekly living cost of a couple continuously cruising. Basically licence fee food and fuel, couple of nights down the pub, occasional meal out. Basically a comfortable existance. I reckon this can be easily achieved on£120.00 per week. Of course there needs to be a contingency fund for any major repairs that may occur.

 

I calculate as follows.

Licence fee £15.50 per week

Diesel £20.00

Gas £5.00

Food sundries £80.00

 

We have thought ahead so have many replacement parts like spare water pumps alternators; shower pump. Diesel and oil filters + oil which have already been purchased very cheaply as it's easy to get stuff cheap when you don't really need it We also intend to bulk buy goods that can be kept for long periods prior to living aboard like washing up liquid washing liquids, conditioners, loo rolls, kitchen rolls, foils cling wrap, soaps, deodourants, razors, etc etc I've calculated we can get at least 4 years supply of this kind of stuff under floor with the space still available. A big cost saving buying in bulk and beating inflation at the same time, also reducing the amount of goods you have to haul along the towpath. Also we will shop for tinned and dried foods quarterly to reduce the weekly shopping cost, and ease the shopping task.

 

I'm able to undertake all the maintenance on the boat so reducing the need for skilled labour to fix things. We will have a lump sum of money behind us of which interest only will be used, and intend to further fund this lifestyle by working through the winter from November to March, topped up with casual jobbing work through the summer.

 

I would love to hear from any live aboard CC's and their true costs.

[honey ryder]

ha ha... bulk buying and living on a boat all in the same post... thats raised a smile this morning. I have images of the boat leaving the mooring with 3 inches of freeboard and then in 4 years time its flying high with no ballast left.

 

i thought the idea of living on a boat was not a financial choice but more a lifestyle choice that happens to be slightly cheaper day to day than living a landhouse.

 

comparing a boat with all the financial trappings and windfalls of bricks and mortar owning is like comparing a bird with a fish.

 

I have some side by side comparisons of what it cost me to live in a rented flat and what i thought it would cost me to live in a boat, what it actually costs me to live in a narrowboat and ideas of what i think it will cost me to live in a yacht at the coast or in a marina. I have kept my own lifestyle out of the equation, so food, clothes, mobile phone, internet and all that stuff are omitted

 

the costs of renting a 2 bed flat in south croydon per month, inside the M25:

rent 850

gas 24

electric 24

water 30

council tax 120

commute 0 ( because I was close enough to walk to work)

 

total 1048

 

the costs of living in a 57' narrowboat per month, constantly cruising and commuting to work

mortgage 284 (based on 24000 over 10 years, this is 50% the cost of our boat)

gas/diesel 30 (one 6kg gas bottle each 2.5 months, 1ltr of diesel per day average)

moorings 0

licence 55

commute 200 (by train, car or motorbike)

 

total 569

 

the anticipated costs of living in a 32' yacht by the coast, moored in a marina, commuting to work

mortgage 284 (imagine we can buy a 32'yacht for the same as the narrowboat)

gas/diesel/electric 30

moorings 200-300 (this is based on various marinas around the east and south coast

licence 0

commute 200-400 (depending on which marina or mooring we are based at)

 

 

total 714-1014

 

as you can see, the figures vary considerably, but even living the life of luxury in a posh marina on a nice yacht, it still works out less than a poxy flat in croydon.

 

you do the math, whichever way you fry this egg, living on a boat is generally a much better way of living, therefore all financial costs are paid back with the better way of living. so it always works out BETTER VALUE per hour/day/week/month of living for the money spent.

Edited April 1, 2008 by honey ryder