What would you do?

[chris w]

We've got some oik on one of the mini motorcycles speeding up and down the towpath most evenings at the moment. I do hope he doesn't do it on a day where I see fit to secure our centre rope to a tree, across the towpath... at neck height... in the dark...

 

Report it to the boys in blue. They have a national zero-tolerance on these mini-bikes. The bike will be confiscated and crushed. The towpath is a public place (the definition of a public place being one to which the public has access not one that is in public ownership).

 

As a related example, a guy was done near my village for allowing his daughter to practice driving his car around a mobile home site. She had no licence, no insurance and was uder-age for driving. He claimed the site was privately owned (which it is) and therefore he couldn't be done. The police pointed out that the public has access to the site and therefore it's a public area. He was heavily fined.

 

Chris

[AMModels]

I agree with chris on this (dont faint chris) you do need to report this to the police, if we all as a nation stood up more for ourselves by calling the police to any and all incidents involving crime or antisocial behaviour we might just reduce the fear of crime that seems to be prevelant in the country at the moment.

[laural]

I think it works on a case by case basis.

A camera seems to be more effective than a guard dog nowdays.

Both would be great I suppose.

We will have to see how we get on when the time comes.

Perhaps window shutters should be on our list of extras for the sailaway.

[BigRoj]

I hate to pour cold water on a good idea, but if you're going to take anyones picture you do need their permission, or at least make them aware that their picture may be taken, whether it's a video or still picture, otherwise it would not stand up in a court of law (if it came to that).

 

However, a sign in the window of your boat saying 'CCTV in operation' could have a desired effect, and keep you legal should you use any picture evidence against any miscreants.

 

BSP-how about a bow or stern rope approx 1ft off the ground at an oblique angle on the tow path? Could produce a nice big splash or a satisfying crunch as the rope guides the mini-moto towards something wet or solid!!!

[webby]

I think they should be arrested and made to pick all their litter up, then have their DNA taken just incase

[magnetman]

When i pass through an area with a bad litter problem i tend to think 'why do i care, i don't live here' i feel sorry for those people,probably local to the area concerned, who seem to have such a lack of respect for their own locality . I think its quite sad. I'd incinerate it all, and the rubbish too.

[denboy]

rant on sat here waiting for the PC brigade to cry out stop you cant infringe on there civil rights or words to that effect hang em and hang em high there is no respect for anything in this country from a large portion of the up comming community who believe it is their god given right to do what ever they want to and nobody will stop them report it to the law theyve got better things to worry about like motorists nice easy target easy clearup rate no hassle rant over

Edited February 25, 2008 by denis boyle

[Yoda]

rant on sat here waiting for the PC brigade to cry out stop you cant infringe on there civil rights or words to that effect hang em and hang em high there is no respect for anything in this country from a large portion of the up comming community who believe it is their god given right to do what ever they want to and nobody will stop them report it to the law theyve got better things to worry about like motorists nice easy target easy clearup rate no hassle rant over

 

Good rant but another paragraph would have been better

[denboy]

Good rant but another paragraph would have been better

last time i had a rant on this sort of issue the bushes opened and the brigade appeared & crucified me

[blackrose]

I hate to pour cold water on a good idea, but if you're going to take anyones picture you do need their permission, or at least make them aware that their picture may be taken, whether it's a video or still picture, otherwise it would not stand up in a court of law (if it came to that).

 

I don't think that's correct Roj. I don't recall the paparazzi asking anyone's permission before they snap away.

 

Edit: My understanding is that in the UK unless you're on private property, or taking images of people on private property (which could be legally viewed as an invasion of privacy), there is no law against taking pictures of people, and since the towpath is a public place you're perfectly within your rights.

 

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/media/UKPhotographersRights.pdf

Edited February 25, 2008 by blackrose

[BigRoj]

I don't think that's correct Roj. I don't recall the paparazzi asking anyone's permission before they snap away.

 

Yes, I know where you're coming from with that one, but paparazzi pics are generally not used as evidence, unless it's 'in camera', in which case they're just taken into account, but not used as direct evidence. (as far as I'm aware)

 

Hence reporting restrictions in some legal cases.

 

Mind you, with the legal funds some papers have, they don't bother too much about the law, as long as it sells papers!!!

[Amduck]

I'm as cynical as the next person (well, considerably more cynical than most actually, according to my better half) but I do think it's worth having a quiet, calm word. Sometimes, especially with youngsters, it really is just ignorance/thoughtlessness and a word will do. But you do have to be cautious, and ready to retreat if necessary.

 

I'm afraid there's not much help for adults who think it's acceptable to leave their rubbish wherever they like.

[laural]

I thought candid or incidental photography stood up in court without anyones permission BigRoj.

Im sure there are many occasions where the Police have used video footage that came about accidently.

 

If I was photographing wildlife and someone smashed you round the head with a bag of rubbish do I need to shout ''hey im taking your picture'' for it to be useable?

I think its more of a case of not what you say or do but what you tell the law you said or say you said or did.

Your word against theirs then the truth will have to speak for itself.

[debbifiggy]

My issue and I agree BSP, I wanted to do those things is that they would know what boat I was on and chances are they would do something to it. either that, or I'd get a beating.

 

I'm not a wimp, I've caused some right old stand offs before where I should have been more careful because I believe passionately about treating our environment with respect. It's not ours, it's the farmers and BW's waters, whom they are letting us borrow. I wouldn't mis treat it, as I enjoy this life too much.

 

I will certainly report it to BW. It's something at least.

 

The worst thing was was that he stood there and watched them and did nothing. The mess those kids left after was awful, and it was lucky none of the local ducks got hurt to be honest.

 

The tyres, well, we moved them, we shouldn't have to, but we did. I can't just leave it there, as I know no-one else will bother, nor should they have to, but if you leave things in a mess for long enough, the dog walkers, joggers, cyclists, fishermen, the farmer, BW, will all start complaining!

 

That will only lead to the place being demoted and probably a good thing, but a shame for those who do enjoy it properly.

Did you get an index number? Please report it to BW or even the local council's environmental health department who will take a very dim view of it. BW keep visitor incident records and also are very concerned about fly-tipping & pollution. Everytime I've had contact with the West Midlands office they've been helpful (like stone throwing yobs at Tipton). I agree with all the points you make. There are some people out there who give the rest of us a bad name and don't give a flying f about the environment.

D

[Byeckerslike]

I would photograph them and give the pictures to the cops. I'm not scared of vandals. I live in Tottenham, where alot of people are scared of kids. I asked some kids to stop throwing blocks of concrete in the river here. I told them how it would be me who paid for it to be removed and that I wasn't happy about that, I gave them the choice of stopping and going home or carrying on and I'd call the police. I didn't lose my rag, I just told them why I wasn't happy about it. They stopped.I caught some kids about to set fire to our shower/toilets block. I happened to be in the laundry room when I heard them talking about it. I took photos of them when I got back to the boat and my partner told them to clear off. They were all in school uniform and all very drunk. They were desperately trying to get a rise out of my partner, but they didn't get anywhere. We gave the photos to the cops who instantly knew who they were and informed the school.The best way I've found of dealing with these situations is to stay calm, don't threaten or lose your rag, sounds odd but if you do it in a respectful way, it doesn't go pearshaped.If kids come down here and cause trouble they can expect to be reported, it's not only me that will do it.The cops have stressed to us how important it is to report this kind of thing. As rough as it is in Haringey, I've found the cops really quick to respond, Haringey council is going for the old zero tolerance thing. To be honest, I find kids behavour far worse when I go up to West Yorks to see my mother. Not only that, but I cannot believe the amount of dog shit on the towpaths near mums - (she lives on the Aire and Calder) I took the dog out and coud not find a single poo bin and no one picks up after their dogs. I can now understand why so many of the boaters here complain about it.

and on the subject of rubbish - when my partner had his motorbike, if he was in stationery traffic and someone threw their litter out of the window, he'd post it back through the gap above their window!

 

This is a true story, I guy I work with (He is 6' 2" tall and fit for his age, he also has a shaved head - Essex boy style), he was in his car, with his wife beside him, in a traffic jam. He saw red, when the car in front lowered the drivers window and dumped carrier bag full of rubbish onto the road. My friend - "Mr. X", got out of his car, picked up the discarded bag, opened the rear door of the offenders car and chucked the bag in, closed the door and got back into his car, only to have his wife admonish him.

Traffic moves on and grinds to a halt, offenders drivers window opens once again and the bag dropped again onto the road. Mr. XXX goes ballistic, gets out of his car, picks the bag up once again and tried to open the offenders car door, only to be thwarted by the guy closing the doors with his central locking system, and sits there laughing at Mr. XXX. Mr. XXX, then lifts the guys wiper blade and places the bags handles over the wiper arm.

 

The jam starts to move on, so Mr. XXX gets back into his car, only to be berated by his wife for being so foolish etc.

 

Cars stop again, the guy in front gets out of his car, Mr. XXX gets out of his and beets the guy to getting out, The guy stands up, and he is built like the proverbial brick shit house, Mr. XXX starts to tell this guy what a piece of shit he is, and wallop! he guy floors Mr. XXX with a right hook. He takes stock of the situation and retreats to his car (after-all, the jam was moving on....). He wife vents her spleen for the next two hours.......

But! this is not the first time Mr. XXX has seen red, but they are stories for another time.

[Lady Muck]

I thought candid or incidental photography stood up in court without anyones permission BigRoj.

Im sure there are many occasions where the Police have used video footage that came about accidently.

 

If I was photographing wildlife and someone smashed you round the head with a bag of rubbish do I need to shout ''hey im taking your picture'' for it to be useable?

I think its more of a case of not what you say or do but what you tell the law you said or say you said or did.

Your word against theirs then the truth will have to speak for itself.

 

Well the cops did'nt tell me it was illegal - they said 'thanks, we'll be keeping this on file'.....

[GRPCruiserman]

I hate to say this, but I think I would have moved on to another mooring, I hate things like this but value my health and my family's health and property more highly than any point made.

 

A few years ago I would have confronted anyone, in fact was quite proactive in this, but I am calmer now and I think better for it.

 

I'd find a quiet spot some distance away but would still call the 'Freephone Canals' number (if it still exists) as I have on a few occations, in fact once when some kids were opening ALL the paddles on the locks I was moored below, but they'd gone by the time BW arrived, and I made all the paddles secure again as soon as the kids had gone.

 

I'm one for a quiet life now, but it doesn't make it right.

 

Oh and a point of fact, the canals DO belong to all of us, we employ BW as a nationalised organisation to maintain and control the canal system for us as taxpayers. However, the impression BW has given to us all in recent years is muddies by their 'businesslike' attitude which has both encouraged and hastened the continuing drop in grant in aid. If BW had continued as it was, it would continue to be funded as it was and attracted the restoration funding it used to instead of pricing people like me off the water.

 

This does not mean, however, that we should not obey BW's rules. We employ the Traffic Police Force in a similar way, but we must stick to 30mph in a built up area. The difference is that the people who decided that speed limit were to be 30mph were elected by us and from us, unlike BW which again is now indistinguishable from any other leisure business or theme park management company.

 

Or am i just bitter that the cost of a year's licence is now too high for me? Day licences, here we come.

[bag 'o' bones]

Canal rubbish

 

First time I ever took our new boat for a spin we were confronted by bags of rubbish cotaining old paint cans and even the remains of a kiddies rowing boat dumped on the none tow path side in the middle of nowhere. Could have only come from boaters.

 

Surely the BW rubbish points are not that far apart?

 

As for confronting individuals about there anti social actions isn't that why the tiller arm is removable?

Edited February 26, 2008 by bag 'o' bones

[StoneHenge]

I shall definitely report it. I just need to take a walk down to where the little sod has moored up now. I think this one is a pro at dumping. He's no name on the boat, and the index number is inside the boat stuck in the window between a frame, so you can't see one number. Obviously doesn't like to be noticed. Is that legal?

 

Oh and we will definitely be moving on at the weekend. I can't stand people like that.

[cotswoldsman]

Canal rubbish

 

Surely the BW rubbish points are not that far apart?

 

I guess this depends on where you are and how fast you cruise as an example I left Llangollen on Monday 18/02/08 I am now moored below Marton Locks and next rubish point is Ellesmere where I will be on Friday so that is 11 days, don't get me wrong I am not complaining just making an observation and I am gratefull that in that time I have passed and used 2 water points would have been nice if there had been rubish points aswell, working on the theory the more rubish points the less likely of rubish on the tow path.

[philandiz]

Interesting thread. Last year i confronted a youth for throwing an empty bottle of water at my feet when i was stood next to a bin. This was 10.30 on a Sunday morning, i was with my two children and girlfriend. I actually work in a youth Justice Team and tend not to be intimidated by youths/hoods etc. However, the situation escalated rather fast...he got on the phone to his "posse", we had to leave the area...FAST, and then spent the next two weeks dodging this idiot and his mates who kept prowling the streets looking for me. This happened in Hulme. I found out through other people on the estate that of all the people i confronted, it was "junior" a 19 year old gun totting bad boy that had been delivering deals of smack and crack on his mountain bike since the age of 9 and is now one of the most feared/violent people in Hulme! Needless to say, i learned a valuable lesson that morning...The kids these days (and many adults) don't give a XXXX and are just looking for an excuse to release some of that pent up frustration they carry around.... We totally left the area as a result of that episode.... My advice....phone the police everytime....Let them deal with it!!!

[Malarky]

I think I would have gone out and tried to spot some good bits of ice to chuck, then confronted the kids on the prospect of joining in, if allowed I would have shown by example the limmitations involved, sensible targets, skim bowlng etc.. If not, I would have treated them as "spoil sports" rejected their company and gone back in. All the same I would have tried to get their names.

As far as the rubbish is concerned I would pass a bin liner over if witnessed and offer to deal with it allong with mine, If not, I would clear it up without trying to make any issue of it. It is hard work keeping it together, but leads to a better environment, and it is of equally hard work getting "pissed" with it all. This tends to work, but unfortunately when you leave things tend to revert back to the original state, unless the system has managed to subdue and pre-occupy them with the various controlled drugs available these days .

[BlueStringPudding]

Have you tried having a word.Before you kill him in cold blood.

Cold blood is definitely the way to go, he'd not hear me over the 400Db mosquito whine of an engine anyway.

BSP-how about a bow or stern rope approx 1ft off the ground at an oblique angle on the tow path? Could produce a nice big splash or a satisfying crunch as the rope guides the mini-moto towards something wet or solid!!!

Hmm... interesting...

I hate to pour cold water on a good idea, but if you're going to take anyones picture you do need their permission, or at least make them aware that their picture may be taken, whether it's a video or still picture, otherwise it would not stand up in a court of law (if it came to that).

I'm not so sure that's the case, is it? I've heard on Crimewatch pleas for potential witnesses who might have videoed an incident on their phone to contact the police so they can use the footage as evidence.

[Sir Nibble]

Friend of mine, small lady less than 5' tall, disabled, walking home gets "jumped" by a couple of local lads. They punch her to the ground, nieghbour sees this and calls police. Beating continues, nieghbour calls police again. Poor girl is now being kicked and stamped on amidst cries of "Black bitch!" (she is coloured), nieghbour calls police again. Attack ends, nieghbour calls ambulance, victim hospitalised. Hospital INSISTS upon police attendance, statements taken from victim and witness, police advise referring it to council as "Nuisance neigbour".

 

Don't get involved, the reason so many people believe they can do as they choose is because experience proves them right.

 

Radical idea. Let's recruit a body of men and women to uphold the law.

[WJM]

"if you're going to take anyones picture you do need their permission"

 

Not if they are in a public place - that is why lady celebrities cannot stop the tabloid papers from publishing their knickerless exits from cars, taken on the public highway.