Electrician needed

[jddevel]

Flat starter battery. Solar panel doesn't appear to be maintaining battery. Leisure batteries OK. Leisure user back since before Xmas. Located Near Braunston at Dunchurch Pools. Any recommendations please.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Flat starter battery. Solar panel doesn't appear to be maintaining battery. Leisure batteries OK. Leisure user back since before Xmas. Located Near Braunston at Dunchurch Pools. Any recommendations please.

 

If you need to start the engine use a single jump lead from the leisure + to the starter + (assuming they share the same negative)

 

Once started see if the alternator can get some charge into it

 

If it has not been used for 4 months, and it was not fully charged when last used it will probably have become sulphated.

[ditchcrawler]

The solar probably only charges the domestics, that is the usual set up.

[jddevel]

Thanks for advice so far. Can probably get it started but undoubtedly sulphated. Because spend so much time away think either additional link to starter battery or seperate solar panel would be helpful.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, jddevel said:

Thanks for advice so far. Can probably get it started but undoubtedly sulphated. Because spend so much time away think either additional link to starter battery or seperate solar panel would be helpful.

 

Starter batteries have a very easy life, only having to provide a few Ah per start with a decent engine. This seems counterintuitive to many. So you may be happily surprised if you can get that battery recharged. However, the fact it went so flat suggests there is a chance it has started to internally short, but definitely recharge it and see how it goes.

 

The problem with a simple link to the starter battery is if it starts to short, it will flatten both banks. You can use a VSR to "unjoin" the banks when no charge is present.

[jddevel]

Your getting technical. 🤣  Anyway not actually sure the person we had wire the boat sorted it as although a sailaway we had gs/electrics completed by canal boat "specialists" but even in early days after full days motoring monitor never showed 100% and we had to resort to the genni. Engine twin alternators 38 hp Beta 450 hours in only 6 years

[Tony Brooks]

Unless set up and used properly many battery monitors just lie, that is without the possibility of incorrect wiring, however, usually they say the batteries are better charged than they really are. In any case, battery monitors usually only monitor the domestic battery bank.

 

You made a proposal to just link the two banks, most people who know feel this is a bad idea and I explained why. You don't need to understand why, just don't do it. You can link them as a TEMPORARY measure only when charging is taking place - probably solar.

 

I also gave you one way of doing it that avoided the potential difficulties, but again, any competent person you get to do such a job should know what to do.

 

My main reason for posting was to let you know that despite possibly significant sulphation the start battery may well still work well enough once recharged, so don't go buying new until you try it.

 

[jddevel]

Thank you Tony. I will admit to having little, actually read no real knowledge, of the science of batteries etc which is why the request for someone to review my system to ascertain whether it's just the battery or an uderlying fault. The marina state they are unable to get to it until well into May . Couple of emails and leavi g phone messages. 24 hours charging still only 9 odd volts. So bit the bullet and bought a new battery. Engine now turns over with ease. Will await further contacts to ascertain if I've a problem with the wiring set up. All good for now though.

[blackrose]

On 02/04/2024 at 21:13, Tony Brooks said:

You can use a VSR to "unjoin" the banks when no charge is present.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394959408328?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4xm2jzlrtpi&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=SV_sF0T7SiS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

The VSR will link the domestic and start batteries while the solar panel is charging but then it will disconnect them when the voltage drops so that you can't flatten the start battery by using the domestics.

 

There are various brands of VSRs for sale.

[Tony Brooks]

31 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Thank you Tony. I will admit to having little, actually read no real knowledge, of the science of batteries etc which is why the request for someone to review my system to ascertain whether it's just the battery or an uderlying fault. The marina state they are unable to get to it until well into May . Couple of emails and leavi g phone messages. 24 hours charging still only 9 odd volts. So bit the bullet and bought a new battery. Engine now turns over with ease. Will await further contacts to ascertain if I've a problem with the wiring set up. All good for now though.

 

If you have a voltmeter, put it across the engine battery with the engine off. Then start and rev the engine. If the meter jumps up several volts, probably around 16 to 20 volts you can assume the alternator is charging and the battery, so the old battery had probably  developed an internal short circuit.

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394959408328?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4xm2jzlrtpi&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=SV_sF0T7SiS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

The VSR will link the domestic and start batteries while the solar panel is charging but then it will disconnect them when the voltage drops so that you can't flatten the start battery by using the domestics.

 

There are various brands of VSRs for sale.

I think from what the OP has said they would need quite a bit of help with this idea 

 

[blackrose]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think from what the OP has said they would need quite a bit of help with this idea 

 

 

Yes I realised that, but it's still worth knowing what needs to be done even if one's not doing the job oneself. I was just trying to help with that. 

[Tony Brooks]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think from what the OP has said they would need quite a bit of help with this idea 

 

 

 Even more so because it looks like a non-bidirectional VSR so it has to be wired the right way round to do as the OP intends.

 

Also, when engine charging the VSR may well cause one alternator to shut down and unless why that is and what is going on is explained it is likely to cause the OP a lot of concern.

Edited April 3 by Tony Brooks

[Shrubs Wharf]

Hi JDD

Oggy, oggy, oggy.

 

Chair of a nb syndicate that has been having major problems with our engine & domestic battery banks.

 

Our marina (just N of Braunston) engineers are currently on the case but we do have a marine electrician on hold who is willing to step in if needed.

 

Message me & I will pass on his details

 

Richard

St Columb Major

[jddevel]

Thank you for comments. Installed new battery and all OK. However old battery having recharged at home is holding charge so have contacted local electrician requesting he makes contact to explore problem.

[Tony Brooks]

19 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Thank you for comments. Installed new battery and all OK. However old battery having recharged at home is holding charge so have contacted local electrician requesting he makes contact to explore problem.

 

Are you sure the solar is configured to charge the engine battery, most are not, so with long periods of no engine running or only running the engine for short periods would be likely to result in a flat engine battery.

 

On April 4th I explained how to do a simple voltmeter check to see if the engine battery is being charged by the engine. Have you done this?

 

You can do similar with solar charging. Cover the panels so they stop working, connect a voltmeter across the battery, and note the reading. uncover the panels and the reading should jump up.

[jddevel]

Thank you Tony. Via another discussion I`ve mentioned potentially placing the boat on the market and the requirement of a RCR so having a qualified person appraise the situation ( which I most certainly not) is in my and any potential buyers interest. 

[matty40s]

26 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Thank you Tony. Via another discussion I`ve mentioned potentially placing the boat on the market and the requirement of a RCR so having a qualified person appraise the situation ( which I most certainly not) is in my and any potential buyers interest. 

You do mean RCD...

I wouldn't get RCR to change a lightbulb.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, matty40s said:

You do mean RCD...

I wouldn't get RCR to change a lightbulb.

 

No, he means the UK version of the RCD - the Recreational Craft Regulations. Same thing, different title page.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

No, he means the UK version of the RCD - the Recreational Craft Regulations. Same thing, different title page.

 

 

Point of order...

 

I'm pretty sure the RCR is a good deal more restrictive than the RCD.

 

I expect Alan will be able post reams more stuff on the extra requirements in RCR than I could! 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

'm pretty sure the RCR is a good deal more restrictive than the RCD

 

Nope Tony is correct - the contents are identical with just a new cover on saying "UK RCR"

 

The RCD is now far more restrictive than it was a few years ago and, as the RCR is identical, the RCR is far more restrictive than the RCD was a few years ago.

 

The problem is that such little credence has been given to the RCD by the inland waterways boaters and businesses, the RCR, which is now being applied, is coming as a shock to the system.