Starter time relay noisy engine won't start

[Twoboxes]

Can anyone advise please? The kubota v1903 engine won't start. When you turn the ignition the starter relay at rear of ignition panel makes a noisy whining sound, doesn't sound good. Red Lights on panel intermittent on off as you turn key. On turning key to start there is nothing but the whiring noise as you then turn the key into off position.

 

Batteries are all OK. Voltage checked.

What i can see, doesn't seem to be any lose wires. It just suddenly stopped working, there been no faults up till it stopped working. Starter has been working fine e every time. 

 

Anyone know what the fault is? Could it be the relay be the fault or something else.  Where can I get hold very quickly of the relay unit?  Relay info... Denso 12v starter timer relay 061700 - 3770.

 

 

 

 

Thanks 

Edited January 29 by Twoboxes

[jonesthenuke]

Just a thought but is the battery flat? It would be worth measuring the starter battery voltage if you have a meter. Take a reading on the battery with controls switched off and again when trying to start.

 

[Twoboxes]

Done. Batteries all checked and OK.

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, Twoboxes said:

Done. Batteries all checked and OK.

 

But what reading did you get, both before cranking and during cranking? Long experience suggests new members too often make such statements that turn out to be untrue.

 

I don't understand why it needs a starter relay behind the instrument panel - close to the engine, I can understand, but not remote from it.

[ditchcrawler]

31 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

But what reading did you get, both before cranking and during cranking? Long experience suggests new members too often make such statements that turn out to be untrue.

 

I don't understand why it needs a starter relay behind the instrument panel - close to the engine, I can understand, but not remote from it.

I looked it up Tony and its a "Stop Relay" so could tie in with the other thread running on here with the failed stop solenoid  

[Tony Brooks]

The original post gives me the impression that the OP is just hearing the normal "ignition on" buzzer/sounder, unless that relay has one inside it to warn you to turn the stop system off once the engine has stopped (from Brian's ID of said item).

 

This might be yet another main harness multi-plug problem, so worth taking t apart and refitting to see if anything alters.

 

Until I know more about the relay and as the OP wants one quickly, I think that I would run and a wire (say 28/0.30) between the start terminal on the ignition switch and the single small terminal on the starter solenoid, or even try bridging between the main battery connection on the solenoid and that small terminal. The only difficulty is that the solenoid is often hard to get to. That should tell the OP if it is the relay at fault or something different.

[Tracy D'arth]

Red Key isolator duff?

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Red Key isolator duff?

 

May will be except if it were I would expect the noise to stop while trying to crank because the stater would have pulled the voltage right down.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

May will be except if it were I would expect the noise to stop while trying to crank because the stater would have pulled the voltage right down.

He did say that the lights were going on and off though. If this is a  relay on the solenoid feed perhaps there is not enough current to energise it hence the noise?

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

He did say that the lights were going on and off though. If this is a  relay on the solenoid feed perhaps there is not enough current to energise it hence the noise?

Agreed.

 

I thought that he meant going on and off as he used the key, that might indicate a faulty ignition switch (assuming the start position is on the key).

[Twoboxes]

1 hour ago, jonesthenuke said:

Just a thought but is the battery flat? It would be worth measuring the starter battery voltage if you have a meter. Take a reading on the battery with controls switched off and again when trying to start.

 

 

Extra info...The buzzer does sound when turning the key to heat plugs, but turning key to start position nothing happens, then when turning key back off the relay starts creating a whinning horrible sound. 

[jonesthenuke]

1 hour ago, Twoboxes said:

Extra info...The buzzer does sound when turning the key to heat plugs, but turning key to start position nothing happens, then when turning key back off the relay starts creating a whinning horrible sound. 

OK, so can you tell us the battery voltage whilst doing this?

 

Or, do you have any jump leads? If so, connect the positive on the starter battery to the positive of the domestic battery and then try again to start the engine. Whilst doing this be very careful not to allow either end of the jump lead to touch any metalwork or the negative connections on any of the batteries.

[Twoboxes]

1 minute ago, jonesthenuke said:

OK, so can you tell us the battery voltage whilst doing this?

 

Or, do you have any jump leads? If so, connect the positive on the starter battery to the positive of the domestic battery and then try again to start the engine. Whilst doing this be very careful not to allow either end of the jump lead to touch any metalwork or the negative connections on any of the batteries.

Currently  can't do, not at boat, but all being well tomorrow a marine electrician is now coming out.

[Twoboxes]

On 29/01/2024 at 15:03, Twoboxes said:

Added update: URGENT. Can you help please. I'm posting on behalf of the lady, who lives alone on this boat with this problem. She has been let down by qualified marine electricians saying they would come out but keep failing to turn up. She's very upset and been with no working engine for nearly a week now. Is there anyone out there reading this that could come and sort it out or even just do a bypass please? 

 

Can anyone advise please? The kubota v1903 engine won't start. When you turn the ignition the starter relay at rear of ignition panel makes a noisy whining sound, doesn't sound good. Red Lights on panel intermittent on off as you turn key. On turning key to start there is nothing but the whiring noise as you then turn the key into off position.

 

Batteries are all OK. Voltage checked.

What i can see, doesn't seem to be any lose wires. It just suddenly stopped working, there been no faults up till it stopped working. Starter has been working fine e every time. 

 

Anyone know what the fault is? Could it be the relay be the fault or something else.  Where can I get hold very quickly of the relay unit?  Relay info... Denso 12v starter timer relay 061700 - 3770.

 

 

 

 

Thanks 

 

On 29/01/2024 at 15:29, Tony Brooks said:

 

But what reading did you get, both before cranking and during cranking? Long experience suggests new members too often make such statements that turn out to be untrue.

 

I don't understand why it needs a starter relay behind the instrument panel - close to the engine, I can understand, but not remote from it.

It's not cranking at all.

On 29/01/2024 at 15:03, Twoboxes said:

MACCLESFIELD CANAL , BOSLEY ,anyone advise please? The kubota v1903 engine won't start. When you turn the ignition the starter relay at rear of ignition panel makes a noisy whining sound, doesn't sound good. Red Lights on panel intermittent on off as you turn key. On turning key to start there is nothing but the whiring noise as you then turn the key into off position.

 

Batteries are all OK. Voltage checked.

What i can see, doesn't seem to be any lose wires. It just suddenly stopped working, there been no faults up till it stopped working. Starter has been working fine e every time. 

 

Anyone know what the fault is? Could it be the relay be the fault or something else.  Where can I get hold very quickly of the relay unit?  Relay info... Denso 12v starter timer relay 061700 - 3770.

 

 

 

 

Thanks 

 

7 minutes ago, Twoboxes said:

 

It's not cranking at all.

 

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, Twoboxes said:

 

It's not cranking at all.

 

 

 

I thought that you had an electrician coming to look at it, what did he/she say?

 

If you want to help, the above is not very helpful. We need to find out why, so the first check is to put a voltmeter between the start battery pos and neg with the isolator switch(es) turned on and tell us the two readings:

 

1, the initial reading

then

2. the reading when you are trying to crank.

 

1. will rule out a flat battery

 

2. will help us decide on the next step. It might indicate:

 

a. a master switch fault (further procedures needed)

b. a start relay fault (further procedures needed)

c. a wiring fault (further procedures needed)

 

FWIW I still don't see why you need a start relay UNLESS it is a confusing name for a timed glow plug relay.

[jonathanA]

I'm wondering if there are two different sounds, its not clear from the posts. could there be the normal warning buzzer sound then the 'whirring noise' and could this be this 'start relay' chattering, if it is a heater plug timer, then that would suggest either a battery problem or a high resistance in the start circuit.   

 

so we're back to needing some voltage readings....   or if no multimeter available then just an accurate description - do the lights go off when the key is turned to the 'crank/start' position and there is no engine turning over or other noises for instance. The exact sequence of events please, but voltage readings would be best as a start. 

[Twoboxes]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I thought that you had an electrician coming to look at it, what did he/she say?

 

If you want to help, the above is not very helpful. We need to find out why, so the first check is to put a voltmeter between the start battery pos and neg with the isolator switch(es) turned on and tell us the two readings:

 

1, the initial reading

then

2. the reading when you are trying to crank.

 

1. will rule out a flat battery

 

2. will help us decide on the next step. It might indicate:

 

a. a master switch fault (further procedures needed)

b. a start relay fault (further procedures needed)

c. a wiring fault (further procedures needed)

 

FWIW I still don't see why you need a start relay UNLESS it is a confusing name for a timed glow plug relay.

Hi, thanks. Yer no one came out !

I'm not at boat, but a friend is using another battery from a neighbour boater. It's a fully charged starter battery so hopefully see if the battery is the problem. 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

I'm wondering if there are two different sounds, its not clear from the posts. could there be the normal warning buzzer sound then the 'whirring noise' and could this be this 'start relay' chattering, if it is a heater plug timer, then that would suggest either a battery problem or a high resistance in the start circuit.   

 

Or even the starter motor spinning but not engaging,

[Twoboxes]

50 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Or even the starter motor spinning but not engaging,

OK the problem has been solved with replacing starter battery ! Thanks everyone for all your great advice! 👍 

Great news! It's now working. They tested the starter battery by putting in a good fully charge one. It was the battery, showed a good voltage but died on cranking. So new battery now getting installed. Big thankyou to all your fantastic advice and time. Big thankyou from the lady boat owner.  

Thank you.

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, Twoboxes said:

OK the problem has been solved with replacing starter battery ! Thanks everyone for all your great advice! 👍 

Great news! It's now working. They tested the starter battery by putting in a good fully charge one. It was the battery, showed a good voltage but died on cranking. So new battery now getting installed. Big thankyou to all your fantastic advice and time. Big thankyou from the lady boat owner.  

Thank you.

 

Now you know why the two voltage readings are needed as a start point. Just measuring the resting battery voltage is a very common mistake made by new boaters. Hence, my post on Monday.

[jonesthenuke]

4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Now you know why the two voltage readings are needed as a start point. Just measuring the resting battery voltage is a very common mistake made by new boaters. Hence, my post on Monday.

And my post (chuckle)

[Jak]

New starter battery can do wonders 😎

[ditchcrawler]

17 minutes ago, Jak said:

New starter battery can do wonders 😎

If that is what the problem is.

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If that is what the problem is.

 

 

Jumping to conclusions is quite possibly going to turn out to be the root problem. Yes a flat battery is the problem but has anybody wondered why it was flat? On the face of it, no. So the new, fully charged battery may well turn into  another flat one.