GRP v Steel

[Mad Harold]

7 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

 

 

PPS - I always thought a GRP hull would last 100 years if not damaged? The half-sunk ones you see knocking about aren't necessarily half sunk because they're GRP- more likely because they're neglected. 

 

It's nearly always rainwater after a long period of neglect that sinks 'em.

[magnetman]

Some tests needed. I also wondered if it would blow the charging coil if the battery was discharged. There are no loads other than the starter and almost zero self discharge (0.1v in 18 months) on these batteries but interesting to know how the coil would handle a flat battery demanding a lot of power. Would it blow up or would it regulate. 

 

The outboard has a manual start so it is designed to work with a flat battery. 

 

I reckon with a bit of work a 2 cyl 4 stroke outboard could be modified to make a really nice silent generator. 

 

 

[Stroudwater1]

26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Unless it has changed, there was only one on the River Trent - Farndon Marina.

Sawley Marina as well,  at least there’s a pump there and they used to do it (I know not on the actual river…. ) Then there’s Burton waters too, not far off the River. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Sawley Marina as well,  at least there’s a pump there and they used to do it (I know not on the actual river…. ) Then there’s Burton waters too, not far off the River. 

 

 

 

Yes - I was discounting 'off-river' providers, there are roadside petrol stations closer to the river than the likes of Burton Waters.

 

It was Burton Water that a couple or three years ago had the 'big boat fire' when a petrol engined boat refueled and burst into flames after the fumes collected in the bilges.

From memory wrote it off a boat alongside and seriously damaged another.

 

 

 

Petrol is not nice stuff on boats - hence all the additional safety / BSS requirements and limits on how much you can store.

Edited February 14 by Alan de Enfield

[Mad Harold]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes - I was discounting 'off-river' providers, there are roadside petrol stations closer to the river than the likes of Burton Waters.

 

It was Burton Water that a couple or three years ago had the 'big boat fire' when a petrol engined boat refueled and burst into flames after the fumes collected in the bilges.

From memory wrote it off a boat alongside and seriously damaged another.

 

 

 

Petrol is not nice stuff on boats - hence all the additional safety / BSS requirements and limits on how much you can store.

Probably caused by static while refuelling.

When in a different incarnation, I was into aeroplanes, and when refuelling in the field, we always used an earthing spike in the ground with the other end on a metal part of the aicraft.

The boat referred to was I think a Freeman with a centrally mounted inboard petrol engine, and if it was the pre- crossflow Ford engine with the carburettor mounted above the exhaust manifold, when the throttle spindle gets a bit of wear on it, drips petrol onto the exhaust manifold.If the boat is not fitted with a bilge blower, it only takes a small spark to ignite the lot.

[Tony1]

33 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

It's nearly always rainwater after a long period of neglect that sinks 'em.

 

So am I right in thinking that if you use an outboard, the entirety of the hull below the waterline need not have any holes in it at all? It seems a very sensible way to arrange things. Why have prop shafts and bow thrusters going through the hull if you don't need to? 

And if you keep the rain out (and avoid passing hire boats cracking the hull) then it will essentially stay afloat forever...

I'm curious about this because my longer term plan, once I've done the canal system a couple of times, is to downsize to a 32ft GRP and buy a motorhome.

Spend April to Sept CCing on the GRP, then have it hauled out and stood in the corner of a boatyard for the winter- at which point I can take off to Scotland in the motorhome just when the midges are dying out, and then maybe spend the coldest three months travelling in southern Europe.

Come back to blighty for a month in Wales (or maybe in Ireland, although I hear vehicle ferries are ruinously expensive). Get back to the boatyard in early April, get the old GRP gal put back onto the water, and get cruising again. 

I'm thinking that having a 32ft GRP stored on the hard for 6 months would be cheaper than paying marina berthing rates (and it removes the risk of damage during the increasingly frequent storms we're getting), AND I can claim back 6 months worth of CRT license fee to help pay for the lift out and storage costs. 

 

[Mad Harold]

2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

So am I right in thinking that if you use an outboard, the entirety of the hull below the waterline need not have any holes in it at all? It seems a very sensible way to arrange things. Why have prop shafts and bow thrusters going through the hull if you don't need to? 

And if you keep the rain out (and avoid passing hire boats cracking the hull) then it will essentially stay afloat forever...

I'm curious about this because my longer term plan, once I've done the canal system a couple of times, is to downsize to a 32ft GRP and buy a motorhome.

Spend April to Sept CCing on the GRP, then have it hauled out and stood in the corner of a boatyard for the winter- at which point I can take off to Scotland in the motorhome just when the midges are dying out, and then maybe spend the coldest three months travelling in southern Europe.

Come back to blighty for a month in Wales (or maybe in Ireland, although I hear vehicle ferries are ruinously expensive). Get back to the boatyard in early April, get the old GRP gal put back onto the water, and get cruising again. 

I'm thinking that having a 32ft GRP stored on the hard for 6 months would be cheaper than paying marina berthing rates (and it removes the risk of damage during the increasingly frequent storms we're getting), AND I can claim back 6 months worth of CRT license fee to help pay for the lift out and storage costs. 

 

Sounds like a good plan.

With an outboard, you are right, there are no 'oles below the waterline.

A fibreglas hull will crack when T boned by a heavier boat or squashed in a lock but glancing blows it will usually bounce off with little more than scratches in the gelcoat.

When I had my grp cruiser, I was quite happy to share a lock with a steel boat going down, but not going up as the turbulence from filling a lock can sometimes be a bit fierce.

[Alan de Enfield]

35 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Probably caused by static while refuelling.

 

The explosion was detemined to have been :

a) A spark from the distributor / HT leads shorting and igniting the vapours in the bilge, or

b) A backfire in the carb that ignited the vapours.

 

 

It is a BSS requirement for inboard petrol engined boats to have bilge blowers, and it becomes second nature to use them. Run them for at least 5 minutes before turning the key.

 

I had a Fairline on the Thames with a 6-cylinder Volvo 170 petrol engine.

Complete 'nut & bolt' engine rebuild.

 

 

 

Edited February 14 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony1]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

 

I reckon with a bit of work a 2 cyl 4 stroke outboard could be modified to make a really nice silent generator. 

 

 

I've half a memory if it being mentioned on here that there are kits (or at least, parts) that can be fitted to some outboards, which enable you to get more charging current from the outboard than it would normally supply. 

But that's never going to be a game changer, surely? If you're going to burn over half a litre of petrol in an hour, you'd want more than 15 or 20Ah of charge in the batteries to show for it. Even a small genny will give you maybe 30 or 40Ah of charge over an hour- although that would probably run louder than a honda outboard at tickover.

 

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The exploasion was detemined to have been :

a) A soark from the distributor . HT leads shorting and igniting the vapours in the bilge, or

 

 

I expect they came to that conclusion as they found an HT lead with the insulation burnt off.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I expect they came to that conclusion as they found an HT lead with the insulation burnt off.

 

The fire / explosion was 20 minutes after he had refuelled.

 

The managing director of Burton Waters Boat Sales, Adam Cox, explained what happened.

“What happened was that a visiting boat came and was fuelled up and then the man came to pay. It was nearly 20 minutes later that he started the boat up and at that point he saw there was a fire on board so he quickly gets off,” he said.

“Our fire safety team tried to deal with the fire at first but it was just too fierce but the firefighters were here really quickly. Thankfully, no-one was hurt,” added Cox.

 

He had gone to pay  - back on the boat and turned the key and ....................

 

 

[Stroudwater1]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes - I was discounting 'off-river' providers, there are roadside petrol stations closer to the river than the likes of Burton Waters.

 

It was Burton Water that a couple or three years ago had the 'big boat fire' when a petrol engined boat refueled and burst into flames after the fumes collected in the bilges.

From memory wrote it off a boat alongside and seriously damaged another.

 

 

 

Petrol is not nice stuff on boats - hence all the additional safety / BSS requirements and limits on how much you can store.

It’s only 5 weeks since you posted that video before Alan. 

Must be one of your stock scare ones like the report on the  overplated boat that sunk on the Thames. 

 

You still haven’t produced any statistics though on how often this happens when many boats with generators also carry petrol. 
 

It’s good to see that this boom you describe hasn’t stopped Burton Waters from still dispensing petrol. 
 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The fire / explosion was 20 minutes after he had refuelled.

 

The managing director of Burton Waters Boat Sales, Adam Cox, explained what happened.

“What happened was that a visiting boat came and was fuelled up and then the man came to pay. It was nearly 20 minutes later that he started the boat up and at that point he saw there was a fire on board so he quickly gets off,” he said.

“Our fire safety team tried to deal with the fire at first but it was just too fierce but the firefighters were here really quickly. Thankfully, no-one was hurt,” added Cox.

 

He had gone to pay  - back on the boat and turned the key and ....................

 

 

I don't see how that can say it was an HT spark or back fire, How about sparks from the starter motor or a mechanical source? I agree it was petrol fumes, that was never in doubt, but the ignition source after the boat had been burnt out, that is just guessing unless you found a fag filter down there 

[Alan de Enfield]

31 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

It’s only 5 weeks since you posted that video before Alan. 

 

And bearing in mind that the OP only joined the forum a few weeks ago, I'm not confident that he will have searched the forum for 'potential problems with petrol engined boats', mind you I'm sure he will have read the detailed differences in BSS requirements, and was fully aware of the legal limitations of carrying petrol.

 

Not everything is 'about you' or posted for your edification.

[captain flint]

On 23/01/2024 at 18:38, Shropshire Landlubber said:

 

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated

 

I've only really skimmed this thread and there are loads of folks on here who know a lot more than I. But in terms of getting on and off easily, and lying reasonably low in the water, if it's within your budget might a GRP broads cruiser be worth considering? Something like the one in the photo attached. There are pretty sturdy ex hire boats on the market fairly regularly, and they have good space inside, and good visibility when driving (inside, using a wheel). 

 

 

On 23/01/2024 at 18:38, Shropshire Landlubber said:

 

 

 

 

On 23/01/2024 at 18:38, Shropshire Landlubber said:

 

 

 

 

On 23/01/2024 at 18:38, Shropshire Landlubber said:

 

 

Jeepers, not sure what I managed to do when posting this. I haven't even been drinking! 

 

Edited February 15 by captain flint

[Shropshire Landlubber]

Many thanks Capt Flint - don't worry about the lack of jpg, I get the idea.  Unfortunately, since we intend to explore as many waterways as possible, starting from our planned mooring on the Llangollen, we can only chose from 6'10" beam boats.  Clearly that narrows our choice (excuse the pun) and excludes loads of good options such as Broads cruisers.

 

[captain flint]

3 hours ago, Shropshire Landlubber said:

we can only chose from 6'10" beam boats.  Clearly that narrows our choice (excuse the pun) and excludes loads of good options such as Broads cruisers.

 

That it does. But it sounds like a good plan, hope you find something that suits! 

[Tacet]

14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The explosion was detemined to have been :

a) A spark from the distributor / HT leads shorting and igniting the vapours in the bilge, or

b) A backfire in the carb that ignited the vapours.

 

 

It is a BSS requirement for inboard petrol engined boats to have bilge blowers, and it becomes second nature to use them. Run them for at least 5 minutes before turning the key.

 

I can't locate the section that contains the BSS requirement for bilge blowers on inboard petrol engines boats.  Where is it please?

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/requirements-examinations-certification/private-boat-requirements/

Edited February 15 by Tacet

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, Tacet said:

I can't locate the section that contains the BSS requirement for bilge blowers on inboard petrol engines boats.  Where is it please?

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/requirements-examinations-certification/private-boat-requirements/

I have no idea, but it was a requirement by the BSS when I had my petrol engined boat.

 

A quick glance shows it may now be 'optional'

 

From the BSS :

 

 Here are some further points to consider in addition to the other advice in the Petrol Safety on Boats section.

• Consider having bilge blowers fitted to the boat to remove any flammable vapours prior to starting the engine.  Bilge blowers need to be proprietary, have ignition protected circuitry and be sized to the volume of your engine space, so seek competent help to select and fit the right blower for your boat.

• In use, always follow the bilge blower instructions on when to run it and for how long, but never rely solely on them to keep you safe. Always carry out your checks of the petrol system before fuelling and before starting the engine.

 

 

 

• Before starting the boat’s engine, turning any switch or lighting any flame, check once again that no petrol vapours have entered the boat; the extra weight and pressure of the fuel may reveal leaks or weeps that may not be there with less fuel.

• If there’s a strong smell of petrol do not assume it is OK to carry on. Open all windows, hatches, doors and covers to ventilate the boat until the smell has gone and if the smell persists, investigate the source.

• If fitted, run the bilge blower system according to the owner’s manual

Edited February 15 by Alan de Enfield

[Mike Todd]

On 14/02/2024 at 13:26, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I thought this covered that point ?

 

 

 

Twas this I was referring to:

 

as is 2x10 litre cans if you already have 11+litres on board the boat,

 

I assumed that the 11+ on board meant in the tank but I see from later posts that it probably did not.