Aerobic bacteria. How many vents ?

[Guest]

He y'all ! 

 

We are fitting out our barge . Opting for a plastic tank - vetus. Having researched it we will go for aerobic bacteria and a quickener at first, rather than chems or enzymes. So my question is how many vents do we need ? We will have one on gunnel side and I got from a previous thread about them needing to be 38 mm (or same size as outlet). Any suggestions where to put them . A smelly toilet is a bit off-putting but don't want to use chems as they also stink. Cheers !

[Tony Brooks]

It is usually suggested, one at each end of the tank so you can get a thorough draught. Certainly as large a bore as reasonably possible.

[Guest]

Perfect thank you !! Somebody mentioned computer fans 😳.  Probably not needed right ? But a relief if two will do

[Tony Brooks]

11 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

Perfect thank you !! Somebody mentioned computer fans 😳.  Probably not needed right ? But a relief if two will do

 

Probably me. I had a dump through and the boat fitters had fitted a breather with effectively just a 3/8" bore (stupid idea). I then fitted a 22mm breather at the opposite end of the tank and put a box in it with a 12V DC brushless computer fan controlled by one of those vacuum "hall/landing" light timer switches.  Push the switch when taking your seat and again if it runs out, and until the iron 3/8 breather fitting blocked with rust it did minimise the smell in the boat.          

 

With two breathers, it should be easy to retrofit if one is needed.

 

I doubt you will be fitting a dump-through, so there should not be any smells emanating from the tank and up into the boat, even if you use no additives at all. Yeast or oxyction washing powder have been successfully used to minimise tank smells by others.

 

Edited to add: Be aware that some non-dumpthrough toilet manufacturers supply a charcoal filter (service part) to fit into the breather pipe to minimise smells.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Tracy D'arth]

I thought this was for a dump through, may be wrong. Personally I would go for one  vent up through the roof and a proper sea toilet like a Blakes Baby never use any chemicals and never have any smell at all.

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I thought this was for a dump through, may be wrong. Personally I would go for one  vent up through the roof and a proper sea toilet like a Blakes Baby never use any chemicals and never have any smell at all.

 

Having a boat moored next to us at Stratford that produced a disgusting pong from its tank breather whenever the toilet was used, I would want to minimise such a possibility. I am sure it was not a dumpthrough.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Probably me. I had a dump through and the boat fitters had fitted a breather with effectively just a 3/8" bore (stupid idea). I then fitted a 22mm breather at the opposite end of the tank and put a box in it with a 12V DC brushless computer fan controlled by one of those vacuum "hall/landing" light timer switches.  Push the switch when taking your seat and again if it runs out, and until the iron 3/8 breather fitting blocked with rust it did minimise the smell in the boat.          

 

With two breathers, it should be easy to retrofit if one is needed.

 

I doubt you will be fitting a dump-through, so there should not be any smells emanating from the tank and up into the boat, even if you use no additives at all. Yeast or oxyction washing powder have been successfully used to minimise tank smells by others.

 

Edited to add: Be aware that some non-dumpthrough toilet manufacturers supply a charcoal filter (service part) to fit into the breather pipe to minimise smells.

Wow thank you very much for this

9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I thought this was for a dump through, may be wrong. Personally I would go for one  vent up through the roof and a proper sea toilet like a Blakes Baby never use any chemicals and never have any smell at all.

Ok noted. We were until this morning fitting a dump through. But changed last minute and preying nobody breaks the macerator 

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Having a boat moored next to us at Stratford that produced a disgusting pong from its tank breather whenever the toilet was used, I would want to minimise such a possibility. I am sure it was not a dumpthrough.

Ok . Noted thanks 

[ditchcrawler]

I have a dump through, stainless tank and one 38mm vent terminating through the side of the hull just below the gunwale. I also put a cap full of cheap Bio washing liquid after every pump out and a cap full per week if I remember when we are onboard. The only time I get any smell in the boat is if the trap is open for an extended period while brushing the ball seal. As I said I went to a lot of trouble to make sure everything was sealed. A threaded collar welded to the top of the tank and a genuine Sealand fitting screwed it that the toilet mounts on. ( I seem to remember its an odd thread? Not just a push fit through the top of the tank

This one  

[Guest]

Brilliant thank you 

[Momac]

I see you don't like chemicals.

But would like to say I use Odourlos and find it controls smells effectively and very economical in use. 

[Hudds Lad]

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

...a proper sea toilet like a Blakes Baby never use any chemicals and never have any smell at all.

If i was going to blow £5k on the throne alone i'd be expecting it to shoot the result into space with a full orchestra and fireworks, not have to manually pump it away  

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I see you don't like chemicals.

But would like to say I use Odourlos and find it controls smells effectively and very economical in use. 

It's being pumped into a soak away sceptic tank so we can't use chems ... Thanks for the info

45 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

If i was going to blow £5k on the throne alone i'd be expecting it to shoot the result into space with a full orchestra and fireworks, not have to manually pump it away  

😂 .. 

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Hudds Lad said:

If i was going to blow £5k on the throne alone i'd be expecting it to shoot the result into space with a full orchestra and fireworks, not have to manually pump it away  

 

Thank you for adding a potentially interesting dimension to my 'out of shite out of mind' GPS guided instant-freeze compressed air mortar on board lavatory system. The addition of rocketry is something I confess I never considered but could be quite useful in built-up areas where the angle of the discharge tube would tend to reduce the achievable distance.

 

Rocket propulsion could also help reduce wind issues. 

[Tony Brooks]

37 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

It's being pumped into a soak away sceptic tank so we can't use chems ... Thanks for the info

😂 .. 

 

I can't see why that should be, except for Formaldehyde or similar additives. Yeast, oxyaction washing powder, and Odourloss are all designed to feed or otherwise encourage the aerobic bacteria, just what I would think you would want in a septic tank. In fact, you can buy similar additives specifically for treating smelly septic tanks.

[Guest]

Well they say the only chemical to use that doesn't disrupt the balance is ecover or equivalent. Anything stronger kills them off. Don't know the science but do know an expert 

Edited December 22, 2023 by MrshappyH

[ditchcrawler]

54 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

Well they say the only chemical to use that doesn't disrupt the balance is ecover or equivalent. Anything stronger kills them off. Don't know the science but do know an expert 

What do you think houses with septic tanks  do with the water form the shower and the washing machine ?

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

What do you think houses with septic tanks  do with the water form the shower and the washing machine ?

 

Especially those who have not fallen for the ecological marketing hype.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

What do you think houses with septic tanks  do with the water form the shower and the washing machine ?

My parents have a soak away sceptic tank also .. they were told the same thing.

Edited December 22, 2023 by MrshappyH
Personal info shared

[magnetman]

The Lee San man has a house by the Thames on a hill. I wonder where the soak away soaks away to. 

 

I suppose given that Thames water deposit several thousand tonnes of used food into the River these minor details don't matter much but it still seems moderately interesting. 

[Guest]

 

The mooring we have has an exact same tank also doesn't soak into the Thames 

It's a distance away that it doesn't 

And don't get me started on Thames water . A reliable source has given them until April at the latest ...

I'm finding it difficult to chat to you guys actually...  as though I'm having to defend myself for some reason it's bizarre ! So Im going to say thanks for the useful info.. and ? Sorry for ?? 

Peace out ✌️

Edited December 22, 2023 by MrshappyH
Personal info shared

[ditchcrawler]

21 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

My parents have a soak away sceptic tank also .. they were told the same thing.

OK, I have only lived with them for about 65 of my 75 years. The present one hasn't been pumped out for probably 25 years so something is working.

[Guest]

The people who fitted my elderly parents specifically said this. Along with others. Now if yours is working that great. But I can't reasonably pump "chems" into my landlords .

[Slim]

7 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I thought this was for a dump through, may be wrong. Personally I would go for one  vent up through the roof and a proper sea toilet like a Blakes Baby never use any chemicals and never have any smell at all.

I had a " proper sea toilet " and a single vent of about 22 mm dia in my L shaped holding tank for 28 years. Never had a smell inside the boat and didn't ever use any form of chemical. Vent was below the gunwhale. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Slim

[blackrose]

Although I understand the reason it still surprises me that in this day and age people still don't understand that everything is chemistry and try to differentiate between the aggressive substances they'd rather not use (eg. formaldehyde based products) with other things like bacteria & enzymes found in products like Ordorloss and washing detergent by calling the former "chemicals". They're all organic chemicals. Everything is chemistry; the water that your boat is floating in and even you.

 

MrshappyH, you say you're opting for aerobic bacteria as a "quickener" (catalyst?) rather than enzymes, but bacteria produce enzymes as part of their metabolic processes and those enzymes act as the catalysts. Also the terms aerobic and anaerobic refer to the conditions within which the bacteria are able to survive and grow, so aerobic bacteria are not able to survive in anaerobic conditions without the presence of oxygen. You don't say which aerobic bacteria product you're going to use, but the point for you to understand here is that if the contents of your tank becomes anaerobic then the product you're adding will most likely be doing nothing because the bacteria will just die. I know that's why you're asking about vents but I really don't think it's as simple as that. Vents will only ventilate the surface of whatever is in the tank while the rest beneath could well go anaerobic. That's why users of the much derided composting toilets and gardeners regularly turn their compost, to get oxygen in and keep them aerobic.

 

I just don't think there is a magic formula that prevents the headspace of a tank of old shit and piss from smelling, although some obviously mask or reduce the smell better than others. If a boat toilet doesn't smell it just means the smelly gases in the headspace aren't coming into the boat so that's the other goal to aim for. Remember that anything entering the tank will displace the same volume of gas within the tank and that gas has to go somewhere. So look at the physical arrangements of pipes, vents, etc and make sure the path of least resistance for gases leaving the tank isn't into the boat.

Edited December 23, 2023 by blackrose

[Tony Brooks]

10 hours ago, MrshappyH said:

 

The mooring we have has an exact same tank also doesn't soak into the Thames 

It's a distance away that it doesn't attacking or otherwise picking on you

And don't get me started on Thames water . A reliable source has given them until April at the latest ...

I'm finding it difficult to chat to you guys actually...  as though I'm having to defend myself for some reason it's bizarre ! So Im going to say thanks for the useful info.. and ? Sorry for ?? 

Peace out ✌️

 

I am sorry that you feel like that. I have been through the topic again and can't see where anyone was attacking or picking on you. I can see where the sense of the pump out operator's stipulations was being questioned, but that is nothing to do with you, and it follows naturally when questionable statements are made, even if in good faith. I think the majority of posts have been trying to help and educate.

 

I think that you had your answer within the first few posts, what followed was typical of the forum where the subject of discussion wanders about.