Springer Boat 12v wiring

[Mike Waring]

Hi All, I'm new to this forum, so I hope someone can help...

 

I have a 26ft Springer with a Lister Petter LPW2. I'm trying to locate one of these relay units that's fitted to the boat. It contains two relays, one appears to be just for the coolant temp sender and the other for the engine glow plug. However the electrical system behind the ignition panel has been heavily modified so I'm not sure if this unit is original to the wiring system (I don't have a wiring diagram).

 

I'm not sure if its working correctly, as the glow plug doesn't work, although the plug itself does (I've put power to it and it glows)..

 

Any help would be appreciated, and I may need more assistance in the future trying to figure the circuits out (I'm fairly proficient with auto-elctrics, but much of the wiring doesn't make sense..

 

Thank in anticipation

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Not seen one of these before, but I'm thinking voltage sensitive relay. One of the integrated circuits on there is an LM2901, which is a voltage comparator. VSR's are used to charge house and engine start batteries when the engine is running and isolate the engine battery when the engine is stopped. The eight pin IC is too out of focus to make out the markings.

I can see glow plugs being fed from a relay, if they are low resistance, but not a coolant temperature sender. That makes no sense.

 

[Mike Waring]

4 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Not seen one of these before, but I'm thinking voltage sensitive relay. One of the integrated circuits on there is an LM2901, which is a voltage comparator. VSR's are used to charge house and engine start batteries when the engine is running and isolate the engine battery when the engine is stopped. The eight pin IC is too out of focus to make out the markings.

I can see glow plugs being fed from a relay, if they are low resistance, but not a coolant temperature sender. That makes no sense.

 

Hi, thanks for the rapid response. I agree, the circuit for the coolant sensor doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but then the whole system has been modified with many original wires being disconnected, in fact the original ones for the coolant temp sensor have been disconnected and replaced with the two purple wires from the relay...

I'll probably create a wiring diagram and post it to see if anyone can make head or tale of it, especially the mods behind the ignition panel...

[Jen-in-Wellies]

That gadget won't be original. Far too modern surface mount electronics to be part of the original Springer build.

Forgot to say - Welcome to the forum!

[Alan de Enfield]

46 minutes ago, Mike Waring said:

I have a 26ft Springer with a Lister Petter LPW2

 

LPW2 Workshop Manual, but unfrtunately the last few pages containing the wiring diagrmas are missing.

 

 

 

LISTER-PETTER-LPA-LPW-LPWT-LPWS-and-LPWG-Alpha-Series-2003.pdf

[jonathanA]

Usually the lpw wiring is pretty basic/simple so not sure why some one would butcher it. ... but they do.

 

Search on here for lpws and I'm pretty sure there is a wiring diagram pdf put up by some one. Probably @Alan de Enfield

 

Might be worth putting up a picture of your control / ignition panel to see if it's lister one and if is which version.

Must not have been Alan then 😀

Edited October 19, 2023 by jonathanA
Cross posted with a de E how spooky

[Mike Waring]

Hi Jonathan,

It has certainly been heavily Modified, especially behind the ignition panel, for example several wires in the main loom have been disconnected, and a terminal block has been added that has some electronic components incorporated (I'll make a note of what they are labelled as) and joined to other wires. 

 

I'm going to draw a complete wiring diagram to see if anyone can interpret it....

Thanks for the response...

[BEngo]

I think that is the glow plug control/starter delay unit. Its function is to switch the glow plugs on when the ignition is switched on, wait while they get hot and then energise the starter.

It needs to know coolant temperature so it does not put the glow plugs on, and delay the start, when the engine is hot.

 

It is probably available from somewhere like Cargo, but it might be worth a call to MES (Midlands) as they may either have a stock one or know the Cargo part no.

 

The LPW2 was not a standard Springer fit.  They tended more to Lombardinis, Ducatis and the like so I guess it is a replacement and that the "re-wiring" was done when the Lister was fitted.

 

N

[Tony Brooks]

Just a thought, could this be a Smart Bank?

[Mike Waring]

12 minutes ago, BEngo said:

I think that is the glow plug control/starter delay unit. Its function is to switch the glow plugs on when the ignition is switched on, wait while they get hot and then energise the starter.

It needs to know coolant temperature so it does not put the glow plugs on, and delay the start, when the engine is hot.

 

It is probably available from somewhere like Cargo, but it might be worth a call to MES (Midlands) as they may either have a stock one or know the Cargo part no.

 

The LPW2 was not a standard Springer fit.  They tended more to Lombardinis, Ducatis and the like so I guess it is a replacement and that the "re-wiring" was done when the Lister was fitted.

 

N

Hi BEngo, that could make sense; I originally thought that the two relays were separate, but your suggestion makes sense, in that the unit does only one job....

I'll Google Cargo to see if it brings anything up....

14 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Just a thought, could this be a Smart Bank?

Hi Tony, forgive my ignorance, but what is a Smart Bank?

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Mike Waring said:

Hi BEngo, that could make sense; I originally thought that the two relays were separate, but your suggestion makes sense, in that the unit does only one job....

I'll Google Cargo to see if it brings anything up....

Hi Tony, forgive my ignorance, but what is a Smart Bank?

 

It is/was a propria try relay worked by signals from a SmartGauge battery monitor, that charged the start battery for a while and then paralleled the two banks. I mentioned this in case SOEmen with a Smartbank recognised but. However, further thought reminded me it used a contactor rather than a relay so Bengo is more likely to be correct.

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

LPW2 Workshop Manual, but unfrtunately the last few pages containing the wiring diagrmas are missing.

 

 

 

LISTER-PETTER-LPA-LPW-LPWT-LPWS-and-LPWG-Alpha-Series-2003.pdf 2.79 MB · 2 downloads

 

 

Found the rest of the manual - includes wiring diagrams for both Industrial & Marine engines so make sure you read the correct section.

 

 

 

LPWS Workshop Manual (section 9 onwards).pdf

[Mike Waring]

Hi Alan, thanks - the PDFs are really useful.

But looking at the various wiring diagrams, I can tell straightaway that as I suspected, this wiring system has been heavily modified; it has a different ignition switch and has an 11 pin main loom connector block at the engine connection. Also, there are a few electronic components within the ignition panel....

1 hour ago, Mike Waring said:

Hi, thanks for the rapid response. I agree, the circuit for the coolant sensor doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but then the whole system has been modified with many original wires being disconnected, in fact the original ones for the coolant temp sensor have been disconnected and replaced with the two purple wires from the relay...

I'll probably create a wiring diagram and post it to see if anyone can make head or tale of it, especially the mods behind the ignition panel...

 

4 minutes ago, Mike Waring said:

Hi Alan, thanks - the PDFs are really useful.

But looking at the various wiring diagrams, I can tell straightaway that as I suspected, this wiring system has been heavily modified; it has a different ignition switch and has an 11 pin main loom connector block at the engine connection. Also, there are a few electronic components within the ignition panel....

 

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

That gadget won't be original. Far too modern surface mount electronics to be part of the original Springer build.

Forgot to say - Welcome to the forum!

 Re the 8pin IC - the characters on it say 2903 on the top line and 9209 on the bottom line....

[Jen-in-Wellies]

20 minutes ago, Mike Waring said:

Re the 8pin IC - the characters on it say 2903 on the top line and 9209 on the bottom line....

LM2903 is another voltage comparator chip. 9209 could well be manufacturing date code. week 9 of 1992 perhaps, which isn't out of the question for the technology on the circuit board. Gives you an idea of how old it is.

There is a 9247 perhaps on the 14 pin 2901 chip that backs up the year of manufacture.

[Sea Dog]

If I was the OP I'd be pretty impressed by the support here. I'm not, but I still am! This side of the forum is awesome and you lot are golden. Greenies all round! 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

12 hours ago, BEngo said:

I think that is the glow plug control/starter delay unit. Its function is to switch the glow plugs on when the ignition is switched on, wait while they get hot and then energise the starter.

It needs to know coolant temperature so it does not put the glow plugs on, and delay the start, when the engine is hot.

 

It is probably available from somewhere like Cargo, but it might be worth a call to MES (Midlands) as they may either have a stock one or know the Cargo part no.

 

The LPW2 was not a standard Springer fit.  They tended more to Lombardinis, Ducatis and the like so I guess it is a replacement and that the "re-wiring" was done when the Lister was fitted.

 

N

If this does, as seem likely, turn out to be a glow plug control/starter delay unit, then it probably doesn't need to be replaced. Most diesel powered boats don't have them. People find the number of seconds (elephants) of glow plug time required at different temperatures to give good starting before moving the key to the starter motor position. @jonathanA's suggestion of putting up pictures of the ignition panel is a good one. Both front and back sides. When this module was put in, the key switch might have been changed to one with no manual control of the glow plug energisation. It may well be simplest to go back to conventional manual glow plug control wiring, even if that means changing the key switch and some of the wiring. Replicating the Lister-Petter wiring diagram would do that. 

[jonathanA]

normally on marine versions of the LPW there is a plastic box on the side of the engine with the glow plug relay in and a relay to control the stop solenoid. a multiway plug on the side connects to a wiring loom that runs to the lister control panel.   the lister Glow plug relay is one with a built in timer so there isn't a 'pre heat' position on the pukka lister panel start keyswitch.   As Jen says its not hard to wire it for manual control if that dual relay thing is not working/too clever to be used on a simple engine.   

 

in the PDF look at pages 122/124 for the engine end and pages 126/127 for the 'control panel' end.   If as it seems likely its a replacement engine then at least you have something to work to.

[Tracy D'arth]

That is a standard heater plug timer control box off a diesel car or van. It looks vaguely VAG. I don't think it had anything to do with Lister.

It is completely unnecessary on a boat.

Cut out all the complex stuff and wire it up simply then in future it will be easier to live with.