Replacing Thetfor Caprice cooker

[LadyG]

19 hours ago, Ianws said:

Why not try a couple of the things @Tony Brooks has helpfully suggested. only needs a screwdriver and a hammer.

 

I am a bit nervous of that, I have decided they are Phillips and I have two OK Phillips screwdtivera about the right size. I'll give them a tap, or two!

I'll wait till I've got copper grease.

Edited September 20, 2023 by LadyG

[Hudds Lad]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I have decided they are Phillips

Admittedly my eyes aren't the best, but your pics look like pozidrive heads to me 🤷‍♂️

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Hudds Lad said:

Admittedly my eyes aren't the best, but your pics look like pozidrive heads to me 🤷‍♂️

 

I agree, they have the extra small slots in them, but she says they are not hers. As she has not, as far as I know, posted photos of hers so I looked online, the only ones even partially showing the heads were on Ebay so not conclusive. Ebay vendors are free to describe their products however they want, so there is a good chance they are not genuine Thetford ones.

[Hudds Lad]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I agree, they have the extra small slots in them, but she says they are not hers. As she has not, as far as I know, posted photos of hers so I looked online, the only ones even partially showing the heads were on Ebay so not conclusive. Ebay vendors are free to describe their products however they want, so there is a good chance they are not genuine Thetford ones.

Ahhh, i thought she was referring to the pics @BoatinglifeupNorth posted as not being hers, and the ones in her post were in fact her burners.

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Ahhh, i thought she was referring to the pics @BoatinglifeupNorth posted as not being hers, and the ones in her post were in fact her burners.

 

To be honest, she confuses me with many posts. In this one, she calls the countersunk set screws "bolts", which I know they are not as standard, so it is difficult to know what she has got.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[LadyG]

19 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I agree, they have the extra small slots in them, but she says they are not hers. As she has not, as far as I know, posted photos of hers so I looked online, the only ones even partially showing the heads were on Ebay so not conclusive. Ebay vendors are free to describe their products however they want, so there is a good chance they are not genuine Thetford ones.

No @Tony Brooks the first set are not mine, the second photos are mine, and i think they are phillips, but im only 60% sure.

I'll have to go to  a screwfix to get this grease , they won't deliver as it an aerosol, also need ro buy the anti freeze it's £38.99 for 5 litres, that will be all its getting!

Edited September 20, 2023 by LadyG

[Hudds Lad]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

To be honest, she confuses me with many posts. In this one, she calls the countersunk set screws "bolts", which I know they are not as standard, so it is difficult to know what she has got.

It's a pity she's not still on the HNC, i'd pop down with some screwdrivers  

[LadyG]

17 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

It's a pity she's not still on the HNC, i'd pop down with some screwdrivers  

I'm moving N and W , Trent willing.... 

I'm not short of screwdrivers! The one countersunk machine screw I removed was dry as a bone. 

I think of a screw as a tapered device,  these other things may be called machine screws, though they look more like bolts to me. I am not respinsible for naming them

Edited September 20, 2023 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

I think an aerosol is not only very expensive for what you need but is also likely to be messy. A small tube of proper copper grease from the likes of halfirds will last for years, be cheaper, and easier to smear on the threads.

 

If you are saying that the lower photo of the pair in the post where you said it is not yours, then look very carefully at the gaps between the slots. If each has a small "nick" taken out of it or a longer line then they are Posidrive. If there are no markings, they arr likely to be Philips.

[LadyG]

I m afraid Screwfix is the only store near me that sell both the proper antifreeze for central heating radiators and the copper grease. I can just squeeze a bit in to a plastic cap from the aerosol.

I have silicon grease in abundance, that will be OK till I get the right stuff.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I m afraid Screwfix is the only store near me that sell both the proper antifreeze for central heating radiators and the copper grease. I can just squeeze a bit in to a plastic cap from the aerosol.

I have silicon grease in abundance, that will be OK till I get the right stuff.

 

 

 

Yes, but first you have to get the screws out, and by my experience there is a fair chance that you will snap some. You may even have to drill some damaged heads off them.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Yes, but first you have to get the screws out, and by my experience there is a fair chance that you will snap some. You may even have to drill some damaged heads off them.

I've given up with them, I'm very annoyed if the otherwise excellent gas bod put them in when he serviced the cooker. Its very weird because one is actually a brass screw,, as in a wood screw I suppose  I could ask him to come round to give it another service, or find someone  who has the strength and the right tools. But there is no guarantee it will work. The trouble is that every burner has a different flame pattern.

I thought about asking the gas bod for advice, my BSS Examiner, but hes bound to say he must come and see it, then possibly condem it, such is the nature of his trade .

So I'll leave it, maybe find a cannister of compressed air to clean burners from below, and some tiny brushes to push through the tiny jet holes from above.

Edited September 20, 2023 by LadyG

[JungleJames]

2 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

Admittedly my eyes aren't the best, but your pics look like pozidrive heads to me 🤷‍♂️

Doesn't really matter now if she has given up on them.

But to me they look like Philips.

 

Either way, the heads are so completely mullered, I suspect all she would do is muller them even more.

Think her pictures show about 3 screws. All have been butchered about with. Can't see a screwdriver getting them out.

 

Either decide you are going to replace the cooker, or leave it for someone that may be able to find another way of getting them out. 

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

No @Tony Brooks the first set are not mine, the second photos are mine, and i think they are phillips, but im only 60% sure.

I'll have to go to  a screwfix to get this grease , they won't deliver as it an aerosol, also need ro buy the anti freeze it's £38.99 for 5 litres, that will be all its getting!

Get the PlusGas at the same time, If its not plusGas make sure its penetrating release oil, not something like standard WD40. I understand they now do a penetrating oil 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

24 minutes ago, JungleJames said:

Doesn't really matter now if she has given up on them.

But to me they look like Philips.

 

Either way, the heads are so completely mullered, I suspect all she would do is muller them even more.

Think her pictures show about 3 screws. All have been butchered about with. Can't see a screwdriver getting them out.

 

Either decide you are going to replace the cooker, or leave it for someone that may be able to find another way of getting them out. 

 

Or maybe leave it for someone who knows what they’re doing and has good headed screwdrivers. Looks like she’s had a go and just trashed the heads thinking she’s knew what she’s doing with old screwdrivers, obviously just made a pig's ear out of the situation and now blaming the guy that cleaned them before.

[Tony Brooks]

It seems very drastic to buy a new cooker when an hour or so with the correct tools would get the old screws removed, be it by drilling them out and re-tapping the thread in the burner body, but I fear LadyG is not that person and could well end up trashing the burner bodies if she tried. That would cost over £100 a burner rather than a few £s for new screws.

 

In her defence, those screws do waste and seize in, as I know to my own cost.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[MtB]

Just drill the heads off and leave the stumps in place as locators.

 

The screws only need replacing if installed in a sea boat and there is a chance of the waves buffeting the boat so violently the burner tops fall off, I reckon. 

 

Cookers usually don't have those screws and the rings will work fine without them.

 

Better probably, as you'll be able to clean them!

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

Just drill the heads off and leave the stumps in place as locators.

 

The screws only need replacing if installed in a sea boat and there is a chance of the waves buffeting the boat so violently the burner tops fall off, I reckon. 

 

Cookers usually don't have those screws and the rings will work fine without them.

 

Better probably, as you'll be able to clean them!

 

 

True, the Caprice like the Aspire is primarily marketed as a caravan or motorhome oven. The screws, like on our Aspire are to stop the tops dislodging when on the road.

[JungleJames]

42 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

It seems very drastic to buy a new cooker when an hour or so with the correct tools would get the old screws removed, be it by drilling them out and re-tapping the thread in the burner body, but I fear LadyG is not that person and could well end up trashing the burner bodies if she tried. That would cost over £100 a burner rather than a few £s for new screws.

 

In her defence, those screws do waste and seize in, as I know to my own cost.

A new cooker is drastic. Was just saying that as she is on about a new galley.

Anyway, either way, leave them for someone that can get them out.

I don't think a decent, correct sized, screwdriver would do it. The heads look too mullered

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, JungleJames said:

Doesn't really matter now if she has given up on them.

But to me they look like Philips.

 

Either way, the heads are so completely mullered, I suspect all she would do is muller them even more.

Think her pictures show about 3 screws. All have been butchered about with. Can't see a screwdriver getting them out.

 

Either decide you are going to replace the cooker, or leave it for someone that may be able to find another way of getting them out. 

 

Yep

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

It seems very drastic to buy a new cooker when an hour or so with the correct tools would get the old screws removed, be it by drilling them out and re-tapping the thread in the burner body, but I fear LadyG is not that person and could well end up trashing the burner bodies if she tried. That would cost over £100 a burner rather than a few £s for new screws.

 

In her defence, those screws do waste and seize in, as I know to my own cost.

The original burners wère OK for twenty two years.

I am fond of this cooker, it's a really nice thing, if only I can sort this.

I am even considering buying a power drill and a special thin hard  bit!!!

It's weird all these machine screws bar one are  fused 

1 hour ago, JungleJames said:

A new cooker is drastic. Was just saying that as she is on about a new galley.

Anyway, either way, leave them for someone that can get them out.

I don't think a decent, correct sized, screwdriver would do it. The heads look too mullered

If they were brand new screws, and I've tried several screwdrivers on every one, and maybe I've done the damage, but I can't do much about it now, I only tried turning each one once ( in my defence)

[Ianws]

Could you just drill them out and buy some replacement tops without screws? 

 

Or has anyone had good experiences with screw extractor kits?

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Ianws said:

Could you just drill them out and buy some replacement tops without screws? 

 

Or has anyone had good experiences with screw extractor kits?

There ae no spares because the design has changed, the new burners are about £100 each.

[Tony Brooks]

8 hours ago, Ianws said:

Could you just drill them out and buy some replacement tops without screws? 

 

Or has anyone had good experiences with screw extractor kits?

 

The screws are only 3 mm in diameter, so I doubt a screw extractor would work. One of the anticlockwise drill type extractor might and would probably take the head off. Once the heads are off three will be a stub exposed, so you have access to where the thread in the base, so soaking with proper penetrating oil stands a chance of working. The stub also gives you a chance of using pliers to "worry" stub out. However, in the end, the stubs may have to be drilled out so new threads can be tapped.

 

[MrsM]

23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The screws are only 3 mm in diameter, so I doubt a screw extractor would work. One of the anticlockwise drill type extractor might and would probably take the head off. Once the heads are off three will be a stub exposed, so you have access to where the thread in the base, so soaking with proper penetrating oil stands a chance of working. The stub also gives you a chance of using pliers to "worry" stub out. However, in the end, the stubs may have to be drilled out so new threads can be tapped.

 

Drilling and tapping sounds like a good solution and would be very doable. A great reason for Jo to invest in a decent cordless drill and tap set. Much cheaper than replacing the burners/stove and generally a useful tool for DIY on a boat. Be handy if you decide to tackle some of the galley refit yourself. Good luck. 

[Tony Brooks]

10 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Drilling and tapping sounds like a good solution and would be very doable. A great reason for Jo to invest in a decent cordless drill and tap set. Much cheaper than replacing the burners/stove and generally a useful tool for DIY on a boat. Be handy if you decide to tackle some of the galley refit yourself. Good luck. 

 

It is not as simple as the words imply. The screws are steel and the housing they screw into are aluminium, so any drill is likely to wander.  The only chance is to start with a very small drill (say1 or 1.5mm) and then work up to the tapping size for the screw. For an experienced DIYer or a half decent engineer, it is very doable, but I am far from sure about the OP. I doubt that she has the tools or skills and seems to find sourcing things like a set of taps and tapping size drill very difficult.

 

Thinking about it, As Mike says, the screws are only to retain the black cap, if it all went wrong carefully selected, size wise, self-tapping screws would probably do the job, screwing into holes drilled into the cast aluminium burned body. It sounds as if something similar has been done on one fixing already.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Tony Brooks