Electric outboards

[Bubblebuster]

Hope you guys can help out here, but been looking at what are new to me - electric outboards.

What is puzzling me (and I might be missing the obvious) is why is there such a wide variation in the price of 'em as they seem to range from a hundred pounds or less to well over a grand or more.

Is there a simple answer staring this old duffer in the face?

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Not looked, but are the <£100 ones on EBay and AliExpress, direct from China? If so, they risk battery fires, due to poor design and construction. Similar to the problem with cheapo electric scooters and ebike batteries. Once started, these fires are fierce and very hard to put out.

If not, then look at range (cheaper gets you less), power/force (cheaper gets you less), charge time (cheaper takes longer). Then you get in to bearing life, water proofing and the brand name premium.

Look for proper CE marks (not "China Export") and properly imported in to the UK by an importer with a reputation they may want to keep, so there is more chance of them meeting basic safety rules over design and construction. Not that this is checked much any more.

Put a few example links up here and the experts will critique!

[David Mack]

Do these include batteries? The ones I have seen are just the motor unit with wires to be connected to a separate battery.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

Do these include batteries? The ones I have seen are just the motor unit with wires to be connected to a separate battery.

And batteries are the most expensive single component class of most electrically motorised things, except the Two AA (not included) sort.

[David Mack]

Just googled a few. Things have moved on since I last looked into this. From the same retailer:

Trolling motor, no battery £375.

https://www.force4.co.uk/item/Minn-Kota/Endura-C2-Electric-Outboard/T9S?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=base&stock=18519&gclid=CjwKCAjwq4imBhBQEiwA9Nx1BrxHIqC1BcxFGPSQfQ_8H7xnPbCYbxNKMGcyW4IcD5IOy3-PcMNIyRoCbukQAvD_BwE

 

Outboard with integral battery £1569

https://www.force4.co.uk/item/Torqeedo/Travel-603-Short-Shaft-Electric-Outboard-Motor/4A7H?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=base&stock=199853&gclid=CjwKCAjwq4imBhBQEiwA9Nx1Bl4IUNE2IWOgb53KQwFOq_vFIupQk2Y7C1_paAK_P8-oT65iFWblnBoCPiMQAvD_BwE

[magnetman]

Cheap trolling motor = mass produced brushed motor with basic resistance based speed controller ie no electronics. Mounted on a basic pole with simple clamp. Also has no battery. Built down to a price. Minn Kota are pretty good and have been copied by endless Chinese producers.

 

Torqeedo/ePropulsion/Aquamot etc =  brushless motor with power electronics and integrated removable lithium battery pack. These also tend to have complex and durable cast aluminium mounting hardware rather than just a pole and a plastic clamp. 

 

 

Torqeedo are overpriced but are aimed at the premium market which consists of people to whom money is not a major factor. 

 

There are others. 

 

It depends what you are trying to push. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by magnetman

[rusty69]

An inflatable boat would be my guess. 

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

An inflatable boat would be my guess. 

 

[Bubblebuster]

4 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Not looked, but are the <£100 ones on EBay and AliExpress, direct from China? If so, they risk battery fires, due to poor design and construction. Similar to the problem with cheapo electric scooters and ebike batteries. Once started, these fires are fierce and very hard to put out.

If not, then look at range (cheaper gets you less), power/force (cheaper gets you less), charge time (cheaper takes longer). Then you get in to bearing life, water proofing and the brand name premium.

Look for proper CE marks (not "China Export") and properly imported in to the UK by an importer with a reputation they may want to keep, so there is more chance of them meeting basic safety rules over design and construction. Not that this is checked much any more.

Put a few example links up here and the experts will critique!

Thanks Jen, you make some good points. Lot's also lately in the media about those batteries having self certifications not worth the paper they were written on. As for the engines themselves 'you get what you pay for' as they say

 

 

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

An inflatable boat would be my guess. 

Yup 😛

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

Do these include batteries? The ones I have seen are just the motor unit with wires to be connected to a separate battery.

Just the motor. Not seen one yet with say an integral battery of sorts but I expect they are out there somewhere.

[magnetman]

Minn Kota usually get used with lead acid car batteries although I run mine on Lithium Titanate batteries. 

 

If you are good with DIY you can buy quite a high power Minn kota as the motor unit only and mount it yourself with something like a 4QD (website name) speed controller. This way you get the thing for less than half price but you have to be prepared to make your own mounting hardware and wiring.

 

The 4" Minn Kota lower units are big heavy durable things. Put a Kipawa propeller on it and you have a very nice setup. 

 

Direct from US so I don't know what happens with import duty 

 

 

Example 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373455638205

 

 

These are powerful blighters which will run on 12,24 or 36v. 

 

 

 

 

I used a Porter speed controller on the floating electric beer dr

inking platform..

 

https://www.4qd.co.uk/product/porter/

[rusty69]

I have no experience of electric outboards, but would think from a battery point of view, one with a built in battery, though more top heavy, may be more suitable than having a battery floating around in the bottom of an inflatable boat, unless said inflatable boat has a rigid floor. 

[magnetman]

Definitely. 

 

I'd go for ePropulsion for that but they are expensive. 

 

I have 2 Aquamot outboards which are a slightly obscure Austrian brand with clip on batteries. They had a UK supplier but there were some issues so they stopped doing it here.

 

Good incredibly durable outboards but again quite expensive. 

 

 

Even the tiny little Thrustme is over a grand !!

 

https://boatworld.co.uk/thrustme-kicker-electric-outboard

[rusty69]

I suppose it negates the need for removing batteries from the boat separately in case of theft. 

 

Thrust me, they ain't inexpensive though! 

[magnetman]

Where Torqeedo led the way others followed. 

 

All of this stuff is overpriced. 

 

I've heard good reports about Protruar trolling motors but they don't have integral batteries. 

 

Someone should make an electric outboard which takes a standard ebike battery. 

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Where Torqeedo led the way others followed. 

 

All of this stuff is overpriced. 

 

I've heard good reports about Protruar trolling motors but they don't have integral batteries. 

 

Someone should make an electric outboard which takes a standard ebike battery. 

That's a good idea. Well except they catch fire. 

 

Maybe a drill battery. Stick your dewalt batteries in a dry bag. Good to go. 

[magnetman]

Very few ebikes catch fire. Sometimes people fall in from boars and drown. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

21 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Maybe a drill battery. Stick your dewalt batteries in a dry bag. Good to go. 

If you have an electric drill too, then you just need one of these:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-threaded-shank-mixer-paddle-120mm-x-600mm/289kr £6.59. Stick the end of the paint mixer in the water and away you go!

[magnetman]

It is amazing that someone has cobbled together this contraption and also wants more than a grand for it. 

 

It looks far too tinny in a number of different ways. 

 

 

[Ewan123]

The more expensive ones also do things like calculating remaining-range with GPS-tracking. I think as with most things, you can spend a little for something basic that does the basic job, or spend as much as you want for extra convenience/reliability/gadget-wizardy/multiple things combined into a single package/complications that can go expensively wrong. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Ewan123

[magnetman]

There is a basic difference between cheap brushed motors and the generally more expensive brushless motors. The former need no electronic components to work. The latter are electronically commutated so can not possibly work without a control module. It can't be done. 

 

From a basic reliability point of view a brushed motor such as a Minn Kota is quite good because you can connect it direct to the battery and it will work. You can't do that with a Torqeedo or an Epropulsion outboard. If the control board goes thats it no motor. 

 

I'm mixed but quite like the old brushed motors. Pain in the arse when the seal is breached by fishing line and it fills with water and knocks the brushes out ! 

 

 

Brushless motors are in everything these days and they arrr demonstrably more efficient per unit of of electricity consumed so ideally one would have brushless. 

 

Watersnake do a really nice 70lb Thrust brushless trolling motor which runs on a normal 12v battery. It was around £300 until recently but seems to have almost doubled in price now. 

 

Could be a nice one. 

 

 

[bizzard]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

There is a basic difference between cheap brushed motors and the generally more expensive brushless motors. The former need no electronic components to work. The latter are electronically commutated so can not possibly work without a control module. It can't be done. 

 

From a basic reliability point of view a brushed motor such as a Minn Kota is quite good because you can connect it direct to the battery and it will work. You can't do that with a Torqeedo or an Epropulsion outboard. If the control board goes thats it no motor. 

 

I'm mixed but quite like the old brushed motors. Pain in the arse when the seal is breached by fishing line and it fills with water and knocks the brushes out ! 

 

 

Brushless motors are in everything these days and they arrr demonstrably more efficient per unit of of electricity consumed so ideally one would have brushless. 

 

Watersnake do a really nice 70lb Thrust brushless trolling motor which runs on a normal 12v battery. It was around £300 until recently but seems to have almost doubled in price now. 

 

Could be a nice one. 

 

 

I have the most woderful old 1950's electric fan, a ''Limit'', all metal, still going strong, done millions of hours. Bought it from a junk shop for £10 about 30 years ago. It has a brushless motor and doesn't have control modules and all that stuff, just a simple rheostat for it's two speeds. How cool is that.

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

I have the most woderful old 1950's electric fan, a ''Limit'', all metal, still going strong, done millions of hours. Bought it from a junk shop for £10 about 30 years ago. It has a brushless motor and doesn't have control modules and all that stuff, just a simple rheostat for it's two speeds. How cool is that.

Is it battery powered ?

[rusty69]

It's probably made of mecanno. 

[magnetman]

Or meccano. 

[rusty69]

That too