False Rivets on Hinges. How to remove?

[jonesthenuke]

We have a 2006 Jonathon Wilson boat. The hatch cover at the bow has large strap hinges with false rivets (The only ones on the boat). The hinges and surrounding area are rusty and I would like to remove the hinges to properly clean the area and repaint. The hinges have been put on such that I cannot slide the hinges off their pins as the pins on the two hinges face inwards towards each other.

 

I cannot see how the hinges are secured to the boat, there are no visible welds, including on the underside. If the hinges were welded from the underside its been well cleaned up as the surface is smooth.

 

I guess the hinges had holes and a weld was made within the holes and the false rivets secured above the welds.

 

Hs anyone removed such false rivets and hinges, particularly on a Jonathon Wilson boat? I  have a mag base drill and suitable sized annular cutters (Rotabroach) so am thinking of cutting through the rivets and hinge straps to get them off.

 

Any advise welcomed! 

[David Mack]

The false rivet heads may be nothing to do with the fixing, just added decoration. Have you asked Tyler Wilson how these hinges are fixed?

Personally I would be inclined to needle gun the whole area both to remove the rust but also to see which of the internal angles are welded and which are not.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

The false rivet heads may be nothing to do with the fixing, just added decoration. Have you asked Tyler Wilson how these hinges are fixed?

Personally I would be inclined to needle gun the whole area both to remove the rust but also to see which of the internal angles are welded and which are not.

I think you will waste your time phoning the builders, from my experience.

My hinges are very creaky, and paint has been applied enthusiastically, was thinking of using oil on the hinges and swinging it to and fro for a while 

There are no bolts on mine, the underneath of the hatch is plain steel but the top has some detail for decoration.

also just cleaning the old paint off. 

I don't think these rivets have any function  I would clean them up and paint the whole thing in situ. I might do mine, at the moment it's red oxide 

Edited July 2, 2023 by LadyG

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Possible they are coach bolts, not rivets, real, or false. In which case, there will be some nuts on the inside of the shell doing the holding on. Is it possible to remove some of the cabin lining under the hinges to see if this is the case, without doing too much damage? Alternatively, take an angle grinder to the bolt heads, in which case, the hinge straps would just lift off.

[Tracy D'arth]

Do the pins knock out?

 

If not I would cut them through and drill them out. Replace with brass rod.

[jonesthenuke]

Thanks for the replies:-

 

Taking issues raised:-

 

Definitely not coach bolts, nothing visible on the underside. Its juts the from bow hatch to fully visible on the underside.

 

No sign of welding around the hinge straps. The corners are sharply defined, thus I conclude the welds may be hidden below the false rivet heads.

 

I have not tried to knock the hinge pins out,  it looks like there is a blob of weld on one end.

 

I will try ringing Jonathon Wilson tomorrow.

[Tracy D'arth]

12 minutes ago, jonesthenuke said:

Thanks for the replies:-

 

Taking issues raised:-

 

Definitely not coach bolts, nothing visible on the underside. Its juts the from bow hatch to fully visible on the underside.

 

No sign of welding around the hinge straps. The corners are sharply defined, thus I conclude the welds may be hidden below the false rivet heads.

 

I have not tried to knock the hinge pins out,  it looks like there is a blob of weld on one end.

 

I will try ringing Jonathon Wilson tomorrow.

grind the weld off the end and it should knock out.

[MtB]

5 hours ago, LadyG said:

My hinges are very creaky,

 

Have you tried an osteopath?

 

 

[MtB]

10 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Have you tried an osteopath?

 

 

 

More helpfully, oil them with diesel. It penetrates better than conventional oil.

 

Or if they are so stiff you fear snapping the hinge pins and oiling (with anything) makes no difference, I've found cutting a 1mm wide longtitudinal slot in the hinge barrel with a cordless grinder allows one to get oil right inside where it is needed. Works a treat. 

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

The rivet heads are only decorative and are not holding the lid, the hinges were puddle welded on, to get the hatch off you have to either drill the hinges from the outside of each side or cut with a grinder or Dremmel multi tool and knock the stainless pins out. I have the same, if below is like your gas locker lid.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[bizzard]

If you heat grease in a pot until fluid and pour that in it will thicken again when cold and keep it lubricated for a long time.

[David Mack]

Does the OP just want to separate the lid, in which case one hinge pin needs to be removed, or does he want to remove the hinges entirely? If the latter then having cut out the puddled welds, cleaned up the rust and repainted, how does he propose to reassemble it all?

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

The puddle welds through the hinge to hatch will be where the rivets are, as they’re only shaped penny washers with the centre’s welded in and cleaned up. 
 I wouldn’t touch them, far easier to remove the pin end welds and punch out, then replace the pins and weld over again. You may be able to use a Dremmal multi tool, easier than trying to drill or a bigger grinder.

  Once disassembled you could even tap one side of the hinge tube and add a grease nipple for greasing in the future, so only rewelding one side. Grease nipples are now added as standard.

Edited July 3, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[jonesthenuke]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

Does the OP just want to separate the lid, in which case one hinge pin needs to be removed, or does he want to remove the hinges entirely? If the latter then having cut out the puddled welds, cleaned up the rust and repainted, how does he propose to reassemble it all?

OK I should have been more specific on this point. I would like to remove the hinges completely as it is the areas around and under the hinges that is rusty. I see no point in cleaning the local surfaces only for the rust to break out again from under the hinges.

 

My reading of the above posts, and explicitly the post for BoatinglifeupNorth, is that the consensus view is that the welds are below the false rivets.

 

I will thus plan on machining them out.

 

To refit I will manufacture some suitable bolts with domed heads (like large coach bolts). This will create the same external appearance but with the advantage of making the hinges removable in future. A bit of rubber gasket in between the hinges and the cover/hull will keep the water out of the interface.

 

Thanks all