Mooring Auctions

[Supermalc]

Auctions......sealed bids etc.

 

We all know the mobile phone people put in astronomical bids for using the frequency to the government........so we now pay 40p a minute for something that actually costs nothing i.e. radio.

 

Why on earth didn't they get together in the first place, be honest about the bid they could afford, and then put bids of £1, £2 and so on with the winner putting the highest bid.

 

Of all the stealth taxes this must rate as the worst.

[denboy]

Just reliised i had put this link in the wrong thread you can start the ball rolling http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/moorings/ 3,535 members on here could be a bit of an embarresment for bw if all members signed up then maybe somebody up stairs would sit up and notice 3,535 is a fair ammount of votes to loose

Edited November 25, 2007 by denis boyle

[Pie Eater]

Good point Denis, all boaters should be objecting to this auction.

Just signed.

 

Steve

[GUMPY]

Just reliised i had put this link in the wrong thread you can start the ball rolling http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/moorings/ 3,535 members on here could be a bit of an embarresment for bw if all members signed up then maybe somebody up stairs would sit up and notice 3,535 is a fair ammount of votes to loose

The govenment didnt take any notice of 2,000,000 that signed the car petition do you seriously think that 3,500 will bother them?

[carlt]

The govenment didnt take any notice of 2,000,000 that signed the car petition do you seriously think that 3,500 will bother them?

That's a good reason to have little faith in a system of protest set up by the government but not a good reason not to sign.

[sueb]

Just reliised i had put this link in the wrong thread you can start the ball rolling http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/moorings/ 3,535 members on here could be a bit of an embarresment for bw if all members signed up then maybe somebody up stairs would sit up and notice 3,535 is a fair ammount of votes to loose

 

Well that is now 287 votes and I don't want a mooring. When do you think BW will start to get worried?

Sue

[Neil.A]

Well that is now 287 votes and I don't want a mooring. When do you think BW will start to get worried?

Sue

When they get some bad press, that seems to work.

If you tried a bit harder; you could be almost negative. <shakes head in utter astonishment>

[GUMPY]

That's a good reason to have little faith in a system of protest set up by the government but not a good reason not to sign.

A good reason not to sign a petition set up by the govenment is that when they have your details you can be flagged as a troublemaker and when they decide that have had enough off to jail, without a trial, you go for however long they decide!

Yes, maybe overstatement at present but not in 10 years time unless we get rid of this lot.

[RichardH]

Today saw the first 10 mooring sites up for auction finish.

 

They make interesting reading.

 

Leaving the quality aside of the moorings on offer.

 

4 had no bids atall.

 

2 did not meet reserve

 

The four others were :- guide price £945 highest bid £ 1800

 

guide price £705 highest bid £ 1061

 

guide price £1116 highest bid £1367

 

guide price £912 highest bid £1000

 

Would BWWs call this a triumph or will it make them think? ( Silly me BWWs think.I dont think so!! )

 

 

Where are these stats published?

[carlt]

A good reason not to sign a petition set up by the govenment is that when they have your details you can be flagged as a troublemaker and when they decide that have had enough off to jail, without a trial, you go for however long they decide!

Yes, maybe overstatement at present but not in 10 years time unless we get rid of this lot.

They'll have lost the data, by then.

[Chris Pink]

You don't stand a snowball in hells chance until boaters attitudes change. How many boaters support a user group?

Until boaters learn to stick together BW/ government will walk all over us.

Sue

 

Well said, Sue.

[carlt]

Well said, Sue.

Which user group would you suggest? The IWA? You might as well just give your subs to BW. NABO? powerless, gutless talking shop. The special interest groups? Dismissed as anoraks and weirdos.

 

You might as well join the BCF, at least you can pray to a, theoretically, higher power (though I'm sure BW would dispute that).

 

If someone forms a 'Boaters Action Group', though, sign me up as a founder member.

Edited November 26, 2007 by carlt

[moggyjo]

Well that is now 287 votes and I don't want a mooring. When do you think BW will start to get worried?

Sue

IWA have a petition going against the mooring tender they have 2296 signatures to date.

[chris w]

Good point Denis, all boaters should be objecting to this auction.

Just signed.

 

Steve

 

You're making the assumption, of course, that all boaters think that auctions are a bad thing. As with houses, if one can afford to offer more and win then the system cuts out a lot of the competition.

 

Chris

[moggyjo]

IMPORTANT NOTE: This is one of three mooring vacancies at this site. Please check the berth length and reference number if you tender. You can tender for different vacancies, but we will charge you 5% of your tendered amount for each succesful tender that you fail to complete (see Terms and Conditions for Tendering 2.14).

 

This note was on a new tender near Lapworth the guide price is over £2200

[chris w]

I've just bought a sailaway and am fitting it out and we have a mooring in a small private marina. We gambled that we'd probably be fit enough to use the boat for about 5 years and then we'd sell it. I "gambled" part of my pension on this. I took out an interest only loan to buy the boat and intended to commute some of my pension to pay off the loan. When I sold the boat I'd hopefully get the majority of the money back (within reason) but would have had five years of boating in exchange for the difference.

 

I wasn't too surprised when interest rates went up, making the interim repayments on the loan are a bit more than I anticipated, but still acceptable. Now the cost of fuel is going up - by this time next year, the way things are going, we could be looking at a £1 per litre more than we pay now. Early payment discounts for licences are liable to disappear and, now, the price of moorings is set to rise if one follows to a logical conclusion what has been said above.

 

If this brings the value of boats down, because people can no longer afford to boat and sell up while they can still get a reasonable price, BW and HMG will have managed something that I was very careful to avoid when I bought the boat - I did my best to make sure that the builder didn't do a runner with my money.

 

Being the eternal pessimist - I got 20 out of 10 for it at school - I reckon in the space of less than 12 months I've probably seen my expenditure on the boat rise by what, in about 12 months time, will be the same percentage as the value of the boat has decreased. And that could be as much as 50%.

 

I'd suggest that you think again if you're thinking of buying a boat in the near future.

 

The actual problem is that you didn't do a sufficiently detailed "worse case" analysis to see whether you really could afford to live on a boat for 5 years when you "gambled" part of your pension.

 

A boat is never going to be an investment. The question is only how bad is the depreciation going to be in terms of loss of interest on the capital and decreased purchasing power due to inflation. A boat isn't even a gamble in the sense that you might occasionally beat the casino. With a boat, the casino wins every time!!.

 

Chris

[Nine of Hearts]

You're making the assumption, of course, that all boaters think that auctions are a bad thing. As with houses, if one can afford to offer more and win then the system cuts out a lot of the competition.

 

Ok, can I re-phrase it? "all reasonable boaters think that auctions are a bad thing". The others think "F**k diversity, let's just have wealthy people on the canals". Because of course, being a bit short of cash is a crime and should be treated as such. I may be mistaken, but aren't there already private sector moorings where such priorities can be found?

 

I'm on a BW mooring and it has a real sense of community. Much more so than the glorified caravan-site I was at before. The residents at Hockley are concerned already that the auctions will mean more non-residential boats entering the site. Currently people have a choice, make all moorings competitive (and under auction BW's are more competitive than the private sector), and there'll only be one way to get a mooring. And this is NOT the case with housing.

[chris w]

Ok, can I re-phrase it? "all reasonable boaters think that auctions are a bad thing". The others think "F**k diversity, let's just have wealthy people on the canals".

 

It's not a question of wealthy people on the canals, it's a question of "get-real". This is life and everything in life is priced, to a first approximation, at the price the market will bear. That includes your house, your car, your groceries and your nights out in a restaurant.

 

If BW raised the price of current moorings to a level that reflected some of the current auction prices then some boaters would pay it and some would have to quit. After the "wealthy" boaters have sated themselves, BW would have a major problem because such high prices would not be a price the market could or would bear in general and they would be left with lots of vacancies.

 

BW would then have to lower prices till the vacancies cleared. Simple market economics. House prices rise in a similar way till people (particularly first time buyers) truly can't afford to pay and they level off.

 

Chris

[GUMPY]

Which user group would you suggest? The IWA? You might as well just give your subs to BW. NABO? powerless, gutless talking shop. The special interest groups? Dismissed as anoraks and weirdos.

 

You might as well join the BCF, at least you can pray to a, theoretically, higher power (though I'm sure BW would dispute that).

 

If someone forms a 'Boaters Action Group', though, sign me up as a founder member.

Save our waterways seems to be getting some results, at least a lot of MPs have pledged support....................

They are having a steering meeting at Foxton on Saturday

The SOW steering group will be holding a strategy

meeting in Foxton next Saturday (Dec 1st) at 1100 hrs.

 

The tone of the meeting will be set by a handful of

presentations that highlight the issues facing our

waterways. This will be followed by a discussion

designed to agree on a strategy and course of action

for the coming months.

 

It is essentially an open meeting and so we welcome

anyone who feels they might be able to help in any

way, small or large.

 

If you want to help save our waterways or just have

your say why not come along? Drop me an email at

nbquidditch at dsl dot pipex dot com and I will send

you a copy of the agenda and directions.

[Nine of Hearts]

Simple market economics. House prices rise in a similar way till people (particularly first time buyers) truly can't afford to pay and they level off.

The only housing being on offer being that which you buy? There's no such things as renting, housing associations or council-lets? What a tiny universe you do inhabit.

[Ray]

The actual problem is that you didn't do a sufficiently detailed "worse case" analysis to see whether you really could afford to live on a boat for 5 years when you "gambled" part of your pension.

 

A boat is never going to be an investment. The question is only how bad is the depreciation going to be in terms of loss of interest on the capital and decreased purchasing power due to inflation. A boat isn't even a gamble in the sense that you might occasionally beat the casino. With a boat, the casino wins every time!!.

 

Chris

 

Chris

 

Fortunately I've never planned to live on the boat, just use it for leisure purposes. I could live with fuel rises and licence fee rises, but I defy anyone to have forecast until recently that mooring fees might rise as much as they are projected to do, coupled with the unusually rapid increase in fuel costs, over and above the abolition of derogation. I'm still OK if there isn't a mass exodus with the market being consequently flooded by cheap second hand boats.

 

Being the eternal pessimist I was simply sounding the warning bells but is annoying when licence, fuel and moorings all seem set to rocket at the same time by significantly more than inflation for the first time in (possibly) living memory, if not longer.

 

Ray

[chris w]

The only housing being on offer being that which you buy? There's no such things as renting, housing associations or council-lets? What a tiny universe you do inhabit.

 

I'm not sure that BW have set up council lets yet but the economics of "renting" your mooring from BW and renting a house in the open market are the same. It's the price the market will bear.

 

You're missing the point. You think I'm in favour of it. I'm merely pointing out why you won't change it in the short term - market forces will change it but only in the longer term.

 

Chris

[Chris Pink]

Which user group would you suggest? The IWA? You might as well just give your subs to BW. NABO? powerless, gutless talking shop. The special interest groups? Dismissed as anoraks and weirdos.

 

You might as well join the BCF, at least you can pray to a, theoretically, higher power (though I'm sure BW would dispute that).

 

If someone forms a 'Boaters Action Group', though, sign me up as a founder member.

 

The IWA hasn't always been gutless, we owe them a great debt, even if they couldn't agree themselves which way to go. Perhaps it is necessary to re-invent these groups from time to time.

 

Chris, BAG member no 2.

[WJM]

Too many boats, not enough moorings - prices go up - welcome to the world!

 

Pulling right back to see the big picture and ignoring your own short term personal desires, it would be a disgrace if BW were not doing this.

[Chris Pink]

Being the eternal pessimist I was simply sounding the warning bells but is annoying when licence, fuel and moorings all seem set to rocket at the same time by significantly more than inflation for the first time in (possibly) living memory, if not longer.

 

 

Hi Ray

 

Not true, about 10 years ago the cost of licences double over 3 years, 33% per year. I realise that age distorts time but it seems a very short time ago to me looking at another 42% increase.

 

And this all compounds.

 

See the DEFRA topic elsewhere for clues as to why we pay more and more. Diesel costs are but a small amount of the real increase in boating costs.