Trent winter opening times

[Mike Todd]

19 hours ago, PD1964 said:

From FOC advise, but free of charge on board piloting the Humber/Trent?????

 The OP obviously didn’t need any help, as he navigated the Trent and arrived safely. The Trent is all about confidence and not listening to scare mongers.

It is not as obvious as you think. Plenty of people 'get away' with ignorance until one day . . . 

[GHL]

5 hours ago, noddyboater said:

I've done it a fair number of times but I always find it daunting too. I normally start thinking about it as I exit Cromwell lock..

It's not exactly an inviting place in the best weather,  and high walls/steep mud banks don't lend themselves to an emergency landing. Heading for Cromwell with it's low grassy banks and gravel beaches is completely different. 

 

Almost everyone I have ever spoken with feels the same about the downriver passage to either West Stockwith or Keadby.    The prospect of entering either of those locks with a powerful tide running across the lock entrance is not a pleasant one.    Unfortunately it is unavoidable if the standard C&RT lock keepers advice on passage and locking times is adhered to.

The timing of your entrance into either West Stockwith or Keadby is best by far if arranged to be at or very shortly after high water when the current in the Trent is either non-existent or very gentle and slow.    I believe that the standard C&RT lock keepers advice on passage and locking times is worked out around the Trust's convenience and its employees working hours.  It does not necessarily have to be complied with.

[pedlar]

I am getting a bit bored with this topic now and eager to move onto something else.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, pedlar said:

I am getting a bit bored with this topic now and eager to move onto something else.

 

Well - stop opening the thread and try another one instead.

 

If you want a bit of excitement try a thread about composting toilets or wanchors.

[LadyG]

On 10/10/2022 at 06:06, GHL said:

I am replying to this topic to ensure that anyone who may already not know is aware that advice, practical assistance, and onboard pilotage services are all available from semi-retired tug/bargemaster, and former member of CWDF, Tony Dunkley, based in Nottingham.

 

Tony is happy to provide a range of services from FoC advice on passage planning and making, via whatever means are most convenient, through to full onboard pilotage for the rivers Humber, Ouse and Trent.

 

Tony Dunkley can be contacted via the Thunderboat Forum at   <  https://thunderboat.boards.net >

I don't think you need bother to promote his services.

He may give excellent advice on navigating the Trent, but he got thrown out of this forum for good reason.

[Midnight]

37 minutes ago, pedlar said:

I am getting a bit bored with this topic now and eager to move onto something else.

 

Oh that's a real shame. May I apologise on behalf of those of us who are enjoying the discussion - blimey you would think we were on a discussion forum.

Hey have you tried Thunderboat? I promise you definitely won't get bored there.

[Alan de Enfield]

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Well - stop opening the thread and try another one instead.

 

If you want a bit of excitement try a thread about composting toilets or wanchors.

 

 

 

[pedlar]

Sorry. I did not realise that it would need an explanation to such experienced boaters.  

A bore is a wave of water occasionally driven up a tidal river on an exceptional spring tide.

This tide does not necessarily have to occur in Spring.

On the Trent this if often referred to as the Aegir.

[noddyboater]

2 hours ago, GHL said:

 

Almost everyone I have ever spoken with feels the same about the downriver passage to either West Stockwith or Keadby.    The prospect of entering either of those locks with a powerful tide running across the lock entrance is not a pleasant one.    Unfortunately it is unavoidable if the standard C&RT lock keepers advice on passage and locking times is adhered to.

The timing of your entrance into either West Stockwith or Keadby is best by far if arranged to be at or very shortly after high water when the current in the Trent is either non-existent or very gentle and slow.    I believe that the standard C&RT lock keepers advice on passage and locking times is worked out around the Trust's convenience and its employees working hours.  It does not necessarily have to be complied with.

I'd agree that particularly over the last few years it's advisable to check the times given by the inexperienced keepers yourself, or with someone higher up the chain, or river, that may actually know what they're talking about. 

If I'm told to leave Torksey at "X" o'clock,  to arrive at Stockwith at "Y" o'clock it's normally a couple of hours out to make life easy getting in the lock. Much better to punch an incoming tide for an hour longer than arrive on the ebb, in my opinion. 

[PD1964]

4 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

It is not as obvious as you think. Plenty of people 'get away' with ignorance until one day . . . 

One day what? As I said the OP obviously didn’t need advice as he negotiated it safely without it, obviously a complete novice may need advice.

Edited October 11, 2022 by PD1964

[Momac]

9 hours ago, noddyboater said:

I'd agree that particularly over the last few years it's advisable to check the times given by the inexperienced keepers yourself, or with someone higher up the chain, or river, that may actually know what they're talking about. 

 

I doubt anyone higher up the chain would have a clue.

 

9 hours ago, noddyboater said:

 

If I'm told to leave Torksey at "X" o'clock,  to arrive at Stockwith at "Y" o'clock it's normally a couple of hours out

In a Narrowboat  I would have thought one option could be to leave Torksey on  the ebb and wait at the pontoon at Gainsborough , and leave  in time to get to Stockwith as  soon as possible  after high tide at Stockwith.  The time of the tides on the day permitting.  Probably best on neaps.

 

I  wait for the flood at Torksey and  have arrive at West Stockwith an hour after high water  but I have the hp to punch the tide. 

An hour after high water   the flow at West Stockwith has been acceptable for getting in.

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

I doubt anyone higher up the chain would have a clue.

 

In a Narrowboat  I would have thought one option could be to leave Torksey on  the ebb and wait at the pontoon at Gainsborough , and leave  in time to get to Stockwith as  soon as possible  after high tide at Stockwith.  The time of the tides on the day permitting.  Probably best on neaps.

 

I  wait for the flood at Torksey and  have arrive at West Stockwith an hour after high water  but I have the hp to punch the tide. 

An hour after high water   the flow at West Stockwith has been acceptable for getting in.

 

The Torksey lock keepers told be to leave an hour after flood. The Keadby lock keeper told me to leave at 8.20am 45 minutes after flood.  Left at the earlier time which is just as well.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Midnight

[noddyboater]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

I doubt anyone higher up the chain would have a clue.

 

In a Narrowboat  I would have thought one option could be to leave Torksey on  the ebb and wait at the pontoon at Gainsborough , and leave  in time to get to Stockwith as  soon as possible  after high tide at Stockwith.  The time of the tides on the day permitting.  Probably best on neaps.

 

I  wait for the flood at Torksey and  have arrive at West Stockwith an hour after high water  but I have the hp to punch the tide. 

An hour after high water   the flow at West Stockwith has been acceptable for getting in.

With a narrowboat that's capable of making some headway against a tide, I leave Torksey early and aim to get to Stockwith as close to high water as possible.  Even better is to arrive early,  hang on the wall and go in at high water.

This obviously isn't really possible at Keadby though. 

Personally,  I wouldn't be comfortable with a boat on the river that can't punch a tide, although I know a lot of people do it safely every year. 

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

The Torksey lock keepers told be to leave an hour after flood. The Keadby lock keeper told me to leave at 8.20am 45 minutes after flood.  Left at the earlier time which is just as well.

 

I found, over the years' that even the 'professional' tidal lock keepers on the Trent seemed to be working on a 'ticksheet' and irrespective of the expected tidal height (and thus strength of flow) or boat type the departure time was always the same (say) 1 hour after high tide.

They did seem to be more flexible when it was explained to them and did often open the gates at the time of your choosing.

 

The worst 'by the book' lockies were always on at Torksey and it seeme that it was almost always 'a non lockie' called in from other duties who was manning the locks. Typically they'd say "I cannot operate the lock until the water level is on that white line".

[Momac]

32 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

The Torksey lock keepers told be to leave an hour after flood. The Keadby lock keeper told me to leave at 8.20am 45 minutes after flood.  Left at the earlier time which is just as well.

Within 15 minutes is not a very significant difference and could easily reflect the local knowledge at Keadby and based on the time of the previous tide compared to the mathematically predicted time. The tides can be early or late depending on the weather and atmospheric pressure. 

 

Your travel time in a low powered boat will vary considerably depending on the speed of the incoming tide so Torksey to Keadby is certainly a challenge.