An extra charge for the top end of the Llangollen?

[Tony Brooks]

It will come all over the UK. It is a bit like VAT. A "hidden" tax collected by someone other than the government.

[Jerra]

12 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

It will come all over the UK. It is a bit like VAT. A "hidden" tax collected by someone other than the government.

That is what annoys me about a number of taxes, it is IMO OK to need to tax, it isn't again IMO to expect the public to do the work for you.

[Momac]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

 

Why would Wales be any different?

Why would some countries not charge tourist tax?

[IanD]

Just now, MartynG said:

Why would some countries not charge tourist tax?

Because they don't feel the need to, or make enough money from tourists anyway, or feel it would disappear into corrupt pockets?

 

All I said was that many countries -- not all! -- have found that a tourist tax works well for them and brings in additional revenue. So to repeat, why do you think Wales should be any different?

[john6767]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

Every single US hotel I've ever stayed in, in many different places -- and not just a tourist tax, see attached bill where the "add-on" local taxes are about 15% of the room charge...

They do like their taxes in the US!  I am part of a class action to recover an illegally ruled tax on hire cars rented at San Diego airport. The only problem is that my share is $0.79.

Edited September 21, 2022 by john6767

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, john6767 said:

They do like their taxes in the US!  I am part of a class action to recover an illegally ruled tax on hire cars rented at San Diego airport. The only problem is that my share is $0.79.

 

So the tax adders on a hotel room in the US come out to 15% in total, where the single tax in the UK (VAT) is 20% -- but this somehow means the US likes taxes? 😉

[john6767]

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

So the tax adders on a hotel room in the US come out to 15% in total, where the single tax in the UK (VAT) is 20% -- but this somehow means the US likes taxes? 😉

I meant all the different ones, not the sum total.

[IanD]

22 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I meant all the different ones, not the sum total.

Understood, but at least they can see where those taxes go -- VAT just disappears into the government coffers to be spent on whatever they want, which may very well not include local tourism support...

[Harpur Hill]

Tourist taxes are not uncommon:-

 

A departure tax of BDS$55 (US$27.50) applies for all passengers over 2 years old leaving Barbados. From 1 October 2018, an additional fee has been added. Passengers flying outside of the Caribbean region pay US$70 per person, and those flying within the Caribbean pay US$35 per person.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

And it pays for the cost of installing and maintaining the charging points and cabling along the towpath and in the basin, which would not be cheap... 😉

Which in my opinion were never really called for, No problem with the pontoons and basin, but all that length of towpath?

 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Which in my opinion were never really called for, No problem with the pontoons and basin, but all that length of towpath?

 

But if they hadn't installed them they couldn't charge for mooring there, in probably the #1 canal honeypot... 😉

Edited September 21, 2022 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Jerra said:

I would tend to agree many Airbnb properties round here "fly under the radar" and don't pay business rates etc.

So how would they collect the Tourist Tax from them unless its done at source, Airbnb.

[enigmatic]

Never mind tourist taxes, a fee to use the ridiculously busy section beyond Pontcysyllte might not be such a terrible idea...

[IanD]

40 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Never mind tourist taxes, a fee to use the ridiculously busy section beyond Pontcysyllte might not be such a terrible idea...

That's effectively what the £6/night mooring fee is...

 

Bear in mind that to extend this away from the moorings -- say, to everything past the aquaduct -- you'd need a way to collect and enforce the charge, which probably means a full-time CART employee. And since they'd only collect the extra fee from boats who went past the aqueduct but *didn't* moor in Llangollen (to stop them paying twice), this is probably not a lot of boats, which probably means the money brought in would be less than the cost of running the scheme -- like the "friends of CRT" ended up.

 

As always, the devil is in the details... 😉

Edited September 21, 2022 by IanD

[enigmatic]

half the boats are hire companies that can collect the charge in advance, the rest could just be asked to "pre-book" via CRT website with someone taking notes of numbers at the bridge, which is not a bad spot for volunteers to hang around anyway. "Pre-booking" means they can keep track of excessive numbers (they already don't let you on the Montgomery if you haven't booked the day before!), and no need to provide free expensive electricity either!

 

The paid-for town moorings aren't even the nicest ones...

[ditchcrawler]

35 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

 

 

The paid-for town moorings aren't even the nicest ones...

I refuse to use them.

[IanD]

16 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I refuse to use them.

Is that because they're paid-for and you'd rather not pay out of principle?

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

Is that because they're paid-for and you'd rather not pay out of principle?

Yes, thin end of the wedge, all towpath moorings in honey spots to be paid for. 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Yes, thin end of the wedge, all towpath moorings in honey spots to be paid for. 

 

And if this raises revenue to help CART (who don't have enough funding) maintain the canals, is this such a bad thing?

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

And if this raises revenue to help CART (who don't have enough funding) maintain the canals, is this such a bad thing?

You could say that the Volockies at Grindley Brook, Fradley, Bingley, Foxton, Watford, Hillmorton and Bratch should charge each boat a fiver, where do you want CRT to stop raising cash, easier to just double the licence fee.

Maybe you wont say that when you have your boat and then have to pay £10 every night to moor up.

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You could say that the Volockies at Grindley Brook, Fradley, Bingley, Foxton, Watford, Hillmorton and Bratch should charge each boat a fiver, where do you want CRT to stop raising cash, easier to just double the licence fee.

Maybe you wont say that when you have your boat and then have to pay £10 every night to moor up.

Please don't put words into my mouth, I said moorings in honeypots could (and probably should) be charged for.

 

I want CART to stop raising cash (from all sources, not just boaters) when they have enough to maintain the network properly, which is probably £100M/year more than today (+50%). Last time I suggested doubling the license fee everyone screamed in protest...

 

If I have to pay to moor up in honeypot locations then I'll be happy to do that -- because for a start it'll discourage CMers and towpath squatters and time-limit-ignorers in these areas, so maybe visitors and people who follow the rules instead of ignoring them can actually find somewhere to moor. Do you really think this is a bad idea?

Edited September 21, 2022 by IanD

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

half the boats are hire companies that can collect the charge in advance,

Some hire companies are based in England, some in Wales, and most hire boats will spend some nights in England and some in Wales, and the hire companies won't know how many in each. So it's not straightforward to get the hire companies to collect the tax.

[enigmatic]

17 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Some hire companies are based in England, some in Wales, and most hire boats will spend some nights in England and some in Wales, and the hire companies won't know how many in each. So it's not straightforward to get the hire companies to collect the tax.

If we're talking about a fee from past the Pontcysyllte (following on from my earlier post exchange with Ian) it shouldn't be too difficult.

 

If we're talking about the canal and the England / Wales border in general, I agree. Had no idea which country I was in for a couple of nights

[Quattrodave]

If you are a CCer then you live in/on your boat on the canal and as such you aren't a tourist, you're at home so how can any tourist tax be applied?  Even if you pay for a mooring for a few nights you still live on the canal and as such, aren't a tourist?

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

If you are a CCer then you live in/on your boat on the canal and as such you aren't a tourist, you're at home so how can any tourist tax be applied?  Even if you pay for a mooring for a few nights you still live on the canal and as such, aren't a tourist?

Perhaps "visitor" is the correct term.

 

If actual tourists (hire boaters) have to pay to moor when visiting a popular honeypot, surely it's reasonable that CCers (liveaboards) should do the same?

 

Because the payment is to moor in a popular area, to raise some revenue for CART, and to try and make it accessible to more people instead of being blocked by overstayers -- it's nothing to do with being labelled "tourist".

Edited September 21, 2022 by IanD