Advice on Boat Worth

[NarrowBoatNewbie]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a 41ft Springer narrowboat, built in 1991. Beam and draft are 6ft 10 inches and 1ft 9 inches respectively. The engine is an Lister LPWS. 

 

I bought Tomcat as a project boat but due to a change in circumstance unfortunately I have to sell it. The BSS Certificate runs until 22 April 2023. 

 

I have had a new boiler fitted and all the gas pipes have been replaced. The boat has just been spray foam insulated.  It does need to be completely rewired.

 

I was wondering what people thought would be a reasonable price to ask for.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jon

[howardang]

35 minutes ago, NarrowBoatNewbie said:

Hi everyone,

 

I have a 41ft Springer narrowboat, built in 1991. Beam and draft are 6ft 10 inches and 1ft 9 inches respectively. The engine is an Lister LPWS. 

 

I bought Tomcat as a project boat but due to a change in circumstance unfortunately I have to sell it. The BSS Certificate runs until 22 April 2023. 

 

I have had a new boiler fitted and all the gas pipes have been replaced. The boat has just been spray foam insulated.  It does need to be completely rewired.

 

I was wondering what people thought would be a reasonable price to ask for.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jon

Have you asked a broker? Alternatively, a surveyor may have an opinion on its worth after looking at its general condition.

 

Howard

Edited July 13, 2022 by howardang

[Bargebuilder]

1 hour ago, NarrowBoatNewbie said:

Hi everyone,

 

I have a 41ft Springer narrowboat, built in 1991. Beam and draft are 6ft 10 inches and 1ft 9 inches respectively. The engine is an Lister LPWS. 

 

I bought Tomcat as a project boat but due to a change in circumstance unfortunately I have to sell it. The BSS Certificate runs until 22 April 2023. 

 

I have had a new boiler fitted and all the gas pipes have been replaced. The boat has just been spray foam insulated.  It does need to be completely rewired.

 

I was wondering what people thought would be a reasonable price to ask for.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jon

With a Springer, the first thing I'd be asking as a potential buyer would be for sight of a recent hull thickness survey, its value would be heavily influenced for many buyers by this.

 

In my opinion, spray foam insulation is the best way to insulate steel, so that's a real positive, but having fitted out from scratch myself, I can see that there is a great deal of time and money still to be spent. It's a great start though for a keen DIYer, so good luck with finding the right buyer.

[LadyG]

As a ballpark figure you could add the cost of boat plus other costs minus anything like running costs including licence.

Boats have probably risen a bit in the last eighteen  months. Might cover licence and insurance.

You might not want the boat surveyed, you might want cash today. 

If you have it surveyed and its bad news, you might wish you'd sold it sold as seen.

Have a look at eBay and places like Whilton who have lots of boats, also Appollo Duck

Edited July 13, 2022 by LadyG

[Tracy D'arth]

As Is with no survey as to hull condition, £8K  subject to plate thickness being insurable, i.e.  over 4mm everywhere.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Tracy D'arth

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

As Is with no survey as to hull condition, £8K  subject to plate thickness being insurable, i.e.  over 4mm everywhere.

That's about what I reckon to sell mine for, when I finally give up. Enough to buy me a cruiser to potter about on.

It's more or less what I bought it for, and slight less than the cost of the last overplating!

[NarrowBoatNewbie]

Thank you for the advice everyone. I bought the Tomcat for 19k and have spent about 6k on the project so it sounds like I might be in for a big loss. 

 

I can add the survey that I had done when I bought the Tomcat. I may have to have another one done before I sell. 

[Arthur Marshall]

13 minutes ago, NarrowBoatNewbie said:

Thank you for the advice everyone. I bought the Tomcat for 19k and have spent about 6k on the project so it sounds like I might be in for a big loss. 

 

I can add the survey that I had done when I bought the Tomcat. I may have to have another one done before I sell. 

It's hard to value anything until you try to sell it. If the hull's ok, that's the crucial thing, especially with Springers as they were built thin. If you had a survey when you bought it, and it's been blacked etc since, I would have thought not much would have changed in a year or two.

[NarrowBoatNewbie]

Thank you, I'll dig out the survey and see what the hull thickness was then. I am thinking about calling a few brokers and seeing if I can get a valuation.

[MtB]

40 minutes ago, NarrowBoatNewbie said:

Thank you for the advice everyone. I bought the Tomcat for 19k and have spent about 6k on the project so it sounds like I might be in for a big loss. 

 

I can add the survey that I had done when I bought the Tomcat. I may have to have another one done before I sell. 

 

 

Sadly, you're selling at the lowest point in its value, and you bought at perhaps the highest.

 

A tired, old, knackered but complete and working Springer is worth insane money, which is what you appear to have bought, filled with inspiration of what you could make it. 

 

Taking it to bits is actually the most easy and enjoyable bit, and the bit that rips big chunks out of the value, which appears to be what you have done. This is also the point at which it dawns on an enthusiastic renovator just how much money needs throwing at it to put it all back together, and they lose heart in the project and sell up. 

 

This is, consciously or not, what you appear to have done. Take the loss on the chin, confident that the £10k or so you think it will cost to finish the boat will easily turn into £25k, at the end of which it might be worth perhaps £30k tops.

 

 

 

[Crewcut]

If the survey you have suggests that the hull is not in need of work and the engine runs well I'd stick it on for £15k & see what happens. Shame it's not a bit earlier in the year, get it on quick. Some brokers don't know their arse from their elbow take what any of them say with a large pinch of salt...

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Sadly, you're selling at the lowest point in its value, and you bought at perhaps the highest.

 

A tired, old, knackered but complete and working Springer is worth insane money, which is what you appear to have bought, filled with inspiration of what you could make it. 

 

Taking it to bits is actually the most easy and enjoyable bit, and the bit that rips big chunks out of the value, which appears to be what you have done. This is also the point at which it dawns on an enthusiastic renovator just how much money needs throwing at it to put it all back together, and they lose heart in the project and sell up. 

 

This is, consciously or not, what you appear to have done. Take the loss on the chin, confident that the £10k or so you think it will cost to finish the boat will easily turn into £25k, at the end of which it might be worth perhaps £30k tops.

 

 

 

Could it really cost £25k to finish, it seems a huge hit for anyone to take, I am stunned, and I know boats cost an arm and a leg just to keep up to date.

[Arthur Marshall]

22 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Could it really cost £25k to finish, it seems a huge hit for anyone to take, I am stunned, and I know boats cost an arm and a leg just to keep up to date.

Depends. Seems a lot to me, but everything has gone up hugely in price and availability recently - worth doing a rough costing. Lining out, then plywood for the walls and roof, bulkheads, shower fittings, cooker, cupboards, seating, bed. Even the screws will cost a small fortune. A lot depends on what one can do oneself, and how much you end up doing twice... Stick to a 12v system and the wiring's easy enough.

A small boat isn't a major undertaking, I did my forty footer in about four months while working full time. I'd keep it simple, make it look nice and sell it on.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

A small boat isn't a major undertaking, I did my forty footer in about four months while working full time. I'd keep it simple, make it look nice and sell it on.

 

 

What? You fitted it out from totally empty (like the OP's boat) in four months? I'm impressed!

[Paul C]

Hire boats get built and fitted out by the hire firm (normally just 1 or 2 people doing it), while also running a hire firm, for a few I know in the local area. Keep it simple and if you know what you're doing, it doesn't need to be a drawn out multi-year thing.

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, Paul C said:

Hire boats get built and fitted out by the hire firm (normally just 1 or 2 people doing it), while also running a hire firm, for a few I know in the local area. Keep it simple and if you know what you're doing, it doesn't need to be a drawn out multi-year thing.

Practice makes perfect.

We went down to France to pick up two Beneteau, for delivery by water to UK

The first one took five days to launch, the second two and a bit.

[MrsM]

10 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Depends. Seems a lot to me, but everything has gone up hugely in price and availability recently - worth doing a rough costing. Lining out, then plywood for the walls and roof, bulkheads, shower fittings, cooker, cupboards, seating, bed. Even the screws will cost a small fortune. A lot depends on what one can do oneself, and how much you end up doing twice... Stick to a 12v system and the wiring's easy enough.

A small boat isn't a major undertaking, I did my forty footer in about four months while working full time. I'd keep it simple, make it look nice and sell it on.

Completely agree about the rising cost of materials. We started renovating our current house in 2018 and are having to pay occasionally in the region of 3 times the price for building  materials now.

Edited July 14, 2022 by MrsM

[Tracy D'arth]

Looking at the picture, there is a huge lack of battens for lining out. Was that deliberate?

[Arthur Marshall]

18 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

What? You fitted it out from totally empty (like the OP's boat) in four months? I'm impressed!

Yep. I had to rip everything out when it was first rebottomed as the insulation was just polystyrene sheets and they caught fire at the sight of a welder. I got bored taking bits out carefully and did it with a sledge...

I used the same layout as I couldn't fit anything else round the windows - it's a short boat, 40 foot, with a short 23 foot cabin so not that much to do. Had a gasfitter mate who put the gas in and I did the rest.

Good fun, but I wouldn't do it again!

[Bod]

20 hours ago, LadyG said:

Could it really cost £25k to finish, it seems a huge hit for anyone to take, I am stunned, and I know boats cost an arm and a leg just to keep up to date.

It's the cost of tools that will surprise the most. Closely followed by cost of screws, glue, etc. and just how many will be needed, fitting out with oak, will need brass screws at 2/3 times the price of steel screws.

Low or poor quality tools will break or wear out quickly and need replacing, abusing tools is a good way to spend money.

Worst part is, a lot of these tools, once the boat is finished, the tools are redundant.

 

Bod.

[Bargebuilder]

31 minutes ago, Bod said:

It's the cost of tools that will surprise the most. Closely followed by cost of screws, glue, etc. and just how many will be needed, fitting out with oak, will need brass screws at 2/3 times the price of steel screws.

Low or poor quality tools will break or wear out quickly and need replacing, abusing tools is a good way to spend money.

Worst part is, a lot of these tools, once the boat is finished, the tools are redundant.

 

Bod.

I did a high quality fit-out on a wide beam, with oak cabinetry and granite worktops etc and didn't spend that much on tools, but I only bought budget range products which were perfectly adequate for short term use.

 

Like you though, I couldn't believe how much things like fixings, catches, hinges, handles, glues, electric cable, fuses, terminals, pipe, pipe fittings, taps, paints etc, etc etc. would cost. It's tempting, before you start, to price up water and room heaters, toilets, battery banks, all the big stuff, but the bits and pieces dwarf the cost of these.

 

I spent 30k on equipment and fixings, but that was 15 years ago, so perhaps MtBs estimate of £25k to fit out a smallish NB at today's prices isn't that far off the mark if it's done to a high standard.

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

I did a high quality fit-out on a wide beam, with oak cabinetry and granite worktops etc and didn't spend that much on tools, but I only bought budget range products which were perfectly adequate for short term use.

 

Like you though, I couldn't believe how much things like fixings, catches, hinges, handles, glues, electric cable, fuses, terminals, pipe, pipe fittings, taps, paints etc, etc etc. would cost. It's tempting, before you start, to price up water and room heaters, toilets, battery banks, all the big stuff, but the bits and pieces dwarf the cost of these.

 

I spent 30k on equipment and fixings, but that was 15 years ago, so perhaps MtBs estimate of £25k to fit out a smallish NB at today's prices isn't that far off the mark if it's done to a high standard.

Well he won't be doing it to a high standard, the point is he is now faced with selling it pdq, seems to me he's overpaid, and is in a dilemma, as previously discussed. It's a pity, but best to try to find someone to take it now let some other optimist take it on.

[Bargebuilder]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Well he won't be doing it to a high standard, the point is he is now faced with selling it pdq, seems to me he's overpaid, and is in a dilemma, as previously discussed. It's a pity, but best to try to find someone to take it now let some other optimist take it on.

I'm afraid that boat yards are littered with unfinished projects started with the best of intentions and initially lots of enthusiasm.

 

It's costs little to advertise on the internet, so apart from time, he has little to lose by starting with a highish asking price and dropping if necessary.

 

I really hope he gets a good price and claws back most of the money he's spent.