Another sinking in Bath

[magpie patrick]

In August a hire boat from Alvechurch caught on the cill of Bath top lock and sank: it was discussed widely here and someone I know read about it in a newspaper in Istanbul... so I assumed it didn't happen that often...

 

Then it happened again this week: Anglo Welsh boat in Lock 10 (fourth lock down)

 

How often does this happen? Was this bad luck for Bath or is there some sinister combination of factors, inexperienced crews, poor briefings, longer boats etc that's causing a problem. K and A locks are a bit short at just 70 feet instead of the usual 72...

 

Jason Day got stuck cos BW wouldn't let his 62 foot boat through a 61-6 lock. If this keep happening will BW decide that 65 feet is the new full length? (I'm speaking rhetorically, I've no idea what length the boats in question were, although they were not short by any means)

[Chris-B]

In August a hire boat from Alvechurch caught on the cill of Bath top lock and sank: it was discussed widely here and someone I know read about it in a newspaper in Istanbul... so I assumed it didn't happen that often...

 

Then it happened again this week: Anglo Welsh boat in Lock 10 (fourth lock down)

 

How often does this happen? Was this bad luck for Bath or is there some sinister combination of factors, inexperienced crews, poor briefings, longer boats etc that's causing a problem. K and A locks are a bit short at just 70 feet instead of the usual 72...

 

Jason Day got stuck cos BW wouldn't let his 62 foot boat through a 61-6 lock. If this keep happening will BW decide that 65 feet is the new full length? (I'm speaking rhetorically, I've no idea what length the boats in question were, although they were not short by any means)

We brought Baldock up the K and A from Bath lasy year and she is 72' and yes some of the locks are tight and you have to diagonal in them.but we experienced no problems.

Unfortunantly the cillings on this section are all caused by the same thing.." Steerer with brain turned off"

JMO

[Sir Nibble]

Diesel duck was on the scene at the time and spoke to the bloke who had only just handed the boat over, (this was 3 locks and less than a mile from the hire base). It would appear that the bloke just took their word for it that these people knew what they were doing and set them loose. Crew was 4 young men and 2 girls. There was an ambulance in attendance. I know no more.

[magnetman]

I believe one of the worst recent nb accidents involved the front of the boat hooking up on the bottom gates going downhill then someone opening top paddles in a panic instantly flooding the boat. (have i got that right? Boat with disabled people on). It may be that people are more aware of this potential danger and pull back towards the cill which is a much more dangerous place to be imo.

[anthony]

Ive been through loads of lock in my 20 footer and always open the bottom paddles 1st slowly then the top ones but keep the boat in the middle.

Naturally if the boat was longer, is it not possible just not to open the top paddle until more experienced at controlling the boat?

Edited October 31, 2007 by anthony

[magnetman]

Misunderstood that as suggesting opening both top and bottom paddles..

Edited October 31, 2007 by magnetman

[Sir Nibble]

These locks have gate paddles bottom and ground paddles top and are broad locks.

[onthecut]

Hi all.

 

I was relatively gobsmacked on my first trip along the Eastern end of the K&A by the un-baffled gate paddles. Talk about blink and sink if you weren't watching.

 

Mike.

[magpie patrick]

The Bath Chronicle has come out today (it made a big thing of being the first paper ever to go from daily to weekly: I'm not sure myself this is something to gloat about) and has coverage of the incident: it was obviously too juicy for thier website prior to publication day. Two people were thrown from the boat and were taken to hospital as a precaution.

 

BW say "there have been twenty similar incidents involving narrowboats" this year! Do you think this is true? They blame people who don't read the boat manual or follow the instructions.

 

http://www.thisisbath.com/displayNode.jsp?...;pNodeId=163047

[Sir Nibble]

They blame people who don't read the boat manual or follow the instructions.

 

From what I heard, I blame people who hand ove 80 odd grands worth of boat to any tom dick or harry without instruction 'cos they can't be arsed.

[magpie patrick]

From what I heard, I blame people who hand ove 80 odd grands worth of boat to any tom dick or harry without instruction 'cos they can't be arsed.

 

Quite: But perhaps BW don't wish to say this! and the K and A does appeal to a different market to some extent: well to do genteel wouldn't touch a northern waterway but we'll go to Bath coz it's posh sort of person

[Sir Nibble]

the K and A does appeal to a different market to some extent: well to do genteel wouldn't touch a northern waterway but we'll go to Bath coz it's posh sort of person

That's a pretty bizarre notion! I find it difficult to visualise anyone who isn't actually certifiable making that judgement, "Let's not go up the Oxford or the GU 'cos of the northern barbarian oiks!"

[bargiepat]

Hi, The article quotes the BW regional general manager, Ian Jarvis, saying: "There are 30,000 gallons of water in a lock and they are very dangerous places to be, especially for people who haven't done it before.

"Narrowboats should be tied up when opening the gates to stop the boat from moving around, which is dangerous but inevitable when releasing water from the lock."

 

What is the relevance of that statement to a boat caught on the cill...................... Probably he did not say that and maybe it was the reporter that is at fault. Still you would have thaught the reporter might have copied the article to him for checking ?

Regards Patrick

Edited November 1, 2007 by bargiepat

[magpie patrick]

That's a pretty bizarre notion! I find it difficult to visualise anyone who isn't actually certifiable making that judgement, "Let's not go up the Oxford or the GU 'cos of the northern barbarian oiks!"

 

you have a way with words Snibble

 

You obviously underestimate how far south "the north" starts though for some people

[Sir Nibble]

Yea, does sound like a statement from someone with no idea how to operate a lock. Substitute "paddles" for "gates" and it makes sense.

[magpie patrick]

"Narrowboats should be tied up when opening the gates to stop the boat from moving around, which is dangerous but inevitable when releasing water from the lock."

 

 

Assuming he did mean paddles I await the next headline in the Bath Chronicle...

 

"Boater beheaded as rope snaps while emptying lock"

[bargiepat]

"Narrowboats should be tied up when opening the gates to stop the boat from moving around, which is dangerous but inevitable when releasing water from the lock."

 

Assuming he did mean paddles I await the next headline in the Bath Chronicle...

 

"Boater beheaded as rope snaps while emptying lock"

 

Just read his statement again......... and yes you are right !!!!!!! you should NEVER tie a boat up when EMPTYING a lock !!!!!!!!

Patrick

Edited November 1, 2007 by bargiepat

[magnetman]

Well i have a rope coming forward loosely tied to a bollard with slack so the boat can't hang but it makes it impossible for the boat to drift back onto the cill even if i get distracted by some honey or something.

[thomasthetanker]

Was the headline 'Sunken Bath'?

[GUMPY]

you have a way with words Snibble

 

You obviously underestimate how far south "the north" starts though for some people

Isnt the M4 the north / south divide?

[Sir Nibble]

Isnt the M4 the north / south divide?

The north south devide is located in the heads of people with more regard for geography than humanity.

[tomandsophie]

Seeing how often this has happened around here recently, I have two possible suggestions:

1. The company should perhaps take the hirers through a lock and point out the cill. I think a large part of the problem is that they just show them a little model of a lock before they release the boat, and of course the cill doesn't look particularly dangerous when looking at a 14 inch model of a lock!

2. Maybe BW should put some little signs next to the paddle gear on the bottom gates that say 'Have you checked that your boat is clear of the cill?' or something like that. Perhaps these signs could even be on flaps over the paddle gear so that you have to move them aside to open the paddles. I don't like this kind of silly thing, but if it stops some more silly buggers sinking more hire boats then it would be worth it I think.

[Big John]

Maybe BW should put some little signs next to the paddle gear on the bottom gates that say 'Have you checked that your boat is clear of the cill?' or something like that. Perhaps these signs could even be on flaps over the paddle gear so that you have to move them aside to open the paddles. I don't like this kind of silly thing, but if it stops some more silly buggers sinking more hire boats then it would be worth it I think.

Silly is a mild word for the idea, Tom/Sophie (delete as applicable).

Cigarette packets tell people smoking kills!

 

If hirers were made to pay a penalty of several hundred pounds if they got their boat stuck on a cill, after having signed that they had been instructed what to do, I suspect only a few less would still do it. From my days as a hirer, I suspect most hirers (especially those who have been on a narrowboat before) listen with half an ear in their impatience to get under way.

I don't expect hire base managers tell their staff to tell the hirer the minimum. I suspect the insurance claim will affect their no-claims bonus.

 

As I recall the Cills are well labelled.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Big John

[SteveE]

Seeing how often this has happened around here recently, I have two possible suggestions:

2. Maybe BW should put some little signs next to the paddle gear on the bottom gates that say 'Have you checked that your boat is clear of the cill?' or something like that. Perhaps these signs could even be on flaps over the paddle gear so that you have to move them aside to open the paddles. I don't like this kind of silly thing, but if it stops some more silly buggers sinking more hire boats then it would be worth it I think.

 

The history of H and S in this country suggests that this sort of thing is quite likely. Course the boat could sink while you're reading the notice!

Boat driving license on its way?????

SteveE

[magpie patrick]

Cills are not that well marked on the locks in Bath, the paint is badly faded: that said they don't protude much either, the boats that have been caught muct have been very close to the top gates.

 

Alvechurch (probably rightly) were critisised with the first sinking, but Anglo Welsh claim to have already seen these guys through the first three locks, they then went and sank in the next one!