Freedom!

[MoominPapa]

Now we've left the evil clutches of the Brussels Bureaucrats and their evil, over-prescriptive regulation of how we can build boats, there are now new, red-white-and-blue regulations more suitable for the use of free-born Englishmen with  a copy of Magna Carta tucked under their arms, which apply after Freedom Day at the start of this year.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/950712/Guide-to-recreational-craft-regulations-2017-tp.pdf

 

But, wait, they seem to be exactly the same as before! Boris, what have you done? Where have you gone?

 

MP.

 

[mrsmelly]

12 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

Now we've left the evil clutches of the Brussels Bureaucrats and their evil, over-prescriptive regulation of how we can build boats, there are now new, red-white-and-blue regulations more suitable for the use of free-born Englishmen with  a copy of Magna Carta tucked under their arms, which apply after Freedom Day at the start of this year.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/950712/Guide-to-recreational-craft-regulations-2017-tp.pdf

 

But, wait, they seem to be exactly the same as before! Boris, what have you done? Where have you gone?

 

MP.

 

You still cant get over it can you ?

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

Now we've left the evil clutches of the Brussels Bureaucrats and their evil, over-prescriptive regulation of how we can build boats, there are now new, red-white-and-blue regulations more suitable for the use of free-born Englishmen with  a copy of Magna Carta tucked under their arms, which apply after Freedom Day at the start of this year.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/950712/Guide-to-recreational-craft-regulations-2017-tp.pdf

 

But, wait, they seem to be exactly the same as before! Boris, what have you done? Where have you gone?

 

MP.

 

 

 

Discussing them again (previously when they were issued 3 months ago) does not make the result any different.

 

Definition of madness, "doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result"

[Higgs]

11 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

Now we've left the evil clutches of the Brussels Bureaucrats and their evil, over-prescriptive regulation of how we can build boats, there are now new, red-white-and-blue regulations more suitable for the use of free-born Englishmen with  a copy of Magna Carta tucked under their arms, which apply after Freedom Day at the start of this year.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/950712/Guide-to-recreational-craft-regulations-2017-tp.pdf

 

But, wait, they seem to be exactly the same as before! Boris, what have you done? Where have you gone?

 

MP.

 

It is also one way of saying - why go through the EU, when it isn't necessary. 

 

 

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

You still cant get over it can you ?

 

Or understand it. 

 

 

[Higgs]

This thread has a very tenuous link to boating.

 

 

[MoominPapa]

6 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

You still cant get over it can you ?

How can you say that? I'm looking for the upside here. I was looking forward to no paperwork, no ban on vintage engines, maybe go back to unrestricted red diesel. Just can't actually seem to find any upside. Help me?

 

MP.

[Alan de Enfield]

Some peoples vision is so blinkered they cannot see past a sewer-tube, little realising that there is a big boat building industry in the UK that exports recreational craft all over the world - including the EU, and for which boats must be built in compliance with local laws (ie the RCD / RCR for Europe).

 

There would be much discussion on the forum if the likes of Princess Yachts were not allowed to sell to the EU, loss of jobs, another business closed because of Brexit etc etc.

 

Every industry has to make their products in compliance with local laws & regulations (and always have done).

We used to manufacture cables to UL (USA standards), CSA (Canadian Standards) and BS (British Standards), all were very close in requirements and we eventually got them to agree on a single standard although still complying with their local specifications - hence the availability of whaty is now called 'Tri-Rated' cables that you will see sold by the likes of ASAP, 12v Planet etc for boat use.

[Col_T]

20 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

the Brussels Bureaucrats and their evil, over-prescriptive regulation

 

The UK Civil Service have a long and glorious history of overly prescriptive regulation from way, way before our joining the EU. Planning and farming / animal welfare being two obviously us examples.

[Athy]

9 minutes ago, Higgs said:

This thread has a very tenuous link to boating.

 

 

It's about boatbuilding regulations; in what way is that a tenuous link?

[Jerra]

I was sure Brexit was supposed to free us from EU red tape, it seems not.   Yes we will have to make things to various standards if they are for export but that surely doesn't mean we need to apply the same to the domestic market.

 

It is interesting to see how until we actually left the EU Brexiteers were proclaiming long and loud how we would be free to "do our own thing" without the restrictions of the EU.  Now suddenly they are jumping to the defence of keeping EU red tape and restrictions.

 

How very strange.

[howardang]

Please sir, please sir,  this thread is  thinly disguised Politics. Help please to  move it to where it belongs!!!

 

Howard

[Higgs]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

It's about boatbuilding regulations; in what way is that a tenuous link?

 

It's more a case of where it's likely to end. 

 

 

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

It's about boatbuilding regulations; in what way is that a tenuous link?

It is a tenuous link in some posters minds as they would prefer it wasn't discussed or moved into a part of the forum fewer people read.

[Higgs]

Just now, Jerra said:

It is a tenuous link in some posters minds as they would prefer it wasn't discussed or moved into a part of the forum fewer people read.

 

The thrust of the OP was on the lack of change, not about the regulation, per se. 

 

 

[Bee]

Didn't I see someone alert us to the possible proposals of the English government demanding licences to own seagoing boats?  Can you imagine the outrage if that had come from Brussels? Freeborn Englishmen, Drake, Raleigh,, Britannia and all the rest. We will have all the old EU rules and a mountain of home made restrictions on top.

[Jerra]

8 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

The thrust of the OP was on the lack of change, not about the regulation, per se. 

 

 

The thrust was about the fact we are now free of EU "restrictions" but choose to continue to be restricted against what has been suggested would happen and against some people's expectations.

[Athy]

Moomin mentions that these regulations don't seem to have changed since the previous edition. But in recent months we have seen the government act in the interestsbof boaters by allowing the continued use of red diesel for boat propulsion, so it is not inconceivable that they will alter other regulations too.

[Higgs]

9 minutes ago, Bee said:

Didn't I see someone alert us to the possible proposals of the English government demanding licences to own seagoing boats?  Can you imagine the outrage if that had come from Brussels? Freeborn Englishmen, Drake, Raleigh,, Britannia and all the rest. We will have all the old EU rules and a mountain of home made restrictions on top.

 

Would it be ok, if I make the rules for your household? You will probably recognise the similarity of these to some you already make and use, but I think I should make up the rules for you. 

 

 

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Would it be ok, if I make the rules for your household? You will probably recognise the similarity of these to some you already make and use, but I think I should make up the rules for you. 

 

 

This has a very tenuous link to boating.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Athy

[Higgs]

Just now, Athy said:

This has a very tenuous link to boating.

 

 

I never promised anything, just aired a view. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I was sure Brexit was supposed to free us from EU red tape, it seems not.   Yes we will have to make things to various standards if they are for export but that surely doesn't mean we need to apply the same to the domestic market.

 

I assume you have limited experience in a manufacturing environment, and the costs and implications of making changes in a production line.

 

If your primary market is into the EU (say) 60% of your business, and 30% in other export customers with only 10% of your sales in your home market, to which standards do your build, particularly whrn the other overses companies accept the RCD as equivalence to their own requirments ?

 

To build a 'cheap and cheerful' version  of your boat for the domestic market would cost far more due to the requirement to source, store, use, duplicate components disrupt production lines than the 'few pounds' by buying cheap, second rate products, not building the hull strong enough etc etc.

 

Henry Ford proved that standardisation was the economic way forward.

[Higgs]

A boat, once owned by Henry Ford. 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Higgs

[enigmatic]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I assume you have limited experience in a manufacturing environment, and the costs and implications of making changes in a production line.

 

If your primary market is into the EU (say) 60% of your business, and 30% in other export customers with only 10% of your sales in your home market, to which standards do your build, particularly whrn the other overses companies accept the RCD as equivalence to their own requirments ?

 

To build a 'cheap and cheerful' version  of your boat for the domestic market would cost far more due to the requirement to source, store, use, duplicate components disrupt production lines than the 'few pounds' by buying cheap, second rate products, not building the hull strong enough etc etc.

 

Henry Ford proved that standardisation was the economic way forward.

All of this is true, as I distinctly remember Remainers arguing when pointing out we'd end up following European regulations anyway, but would be sacrificing any influence in making them...

[Jerra]

38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I assume you have limited experience in a manufacturing environment, and the costs and implications of making changes in a production line.

Narrowboats are built on a production line!!!!!    WOW

38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If your primary market is into the EU (say) 60% of your business, and 30% in other export customers with only 10% of your sales in your home market, to which standards do your build, particularly whrn the other overses companies accept the RCD as equivalence to their own requirments ?

 

To build a 'cheap and cheerful' version  of your boat for the domestic market would cost far more due to the requirement to source, store, use, duplicate components disrupt production lines than the 'few pounds' by buying cheap, second rate products, not building the hull strong enough etc etc.

 

Henry Ford proved that standardisation was the economic way forward.

All the above might be true if we weren't on an canal forum.    Which canal boat producers run a production line in the sense of it being difficult to change individual boats etc?

[Guest]

A remainer speaks.

 

I dont recall it ever being claimed that if we left then all regulation and rules would go out of the window. In fact ISTR quite the opposite and where possible and required eg export ours would mirror EU ones. Not only is this sensible from a bureaucratic perspective it is also from a marketing perspective.

 

The suggestion that this was not the case shows not everybody was paying attention.