I hear water sloshing under shower I suspect!

[Lizette]

Hi All 

 

Just as I was leaving the marina for good to relocate, my shower began to leak . I promptly bought a new one but impossible to fit as the connections were uneven and would not sit right and continued to leak. I then noticed the shower pump which I fitted last year had stopped working. I looked and full of water. I drained off but realised there is a leak from somewhere. I am in the process of lifting the rather large shower tray and can hear there is water sitting. I am travelling to my destination and is very difficult without ability to use water from tank. 

 

I am uncertain what I shall find and know that residual water will be in the pipes which will leak out as I lift the shower tray . But what about the water sitting in the calorifier? Is there a way to close this off as well as the water tank? 

 

Any advice is welcome

 

Many thanks

[Tracy D'arth]

Calorifiers fill from the bottom and empty from the top so it will not drain if you remove the hot pipes.

But if you remove a cold pipe lower than the top of the calorifier and there is no non return valve on the calorifier bottom feed, you will drain it.

 

What exactly is leaking? The shower mixing valve or the waste pipe? Or is the tray leaking around the edge? More detail please, we need clarity.

[Tony Brooks]

On my shower I had a couple of BSP (1/2" I think) female blanking caps that I fitted every winter when I took the mixer off to protect it from frost. I am sure you can get blanking caps/plugs of some sort to seal the open pipes so you can still use the      water system. A photo with a coin for scale in it may allow us to suggest what you need to ask for.

[Lizette]

I initially thought it was water from the shower but there is still more water I can hear when moving from one side of the bathroom to the other. I have completely dismantled the bathroom as I thought I ought to check whether there is a leak in pipes. I had intended to re do the bathroom but just not yet. 

 

I was worried about lifting the shower tray (which covers half of bathroom floor, pulling the pipes and it gushing out from the calorifier

[Lizette]

Hi Tony 

 

I have already done this , although they are still leaking slightly I have used PTFE too. I still think there is a leak from somewhere else and as I have now totally wrecked my bathroom I thought I would lift the shower and drain off the remainder of water which is sitting.

 

At the same time I shall remove the unused pump out tank which does reduce headroom in the bathroom. Any way , I digress.

 

If  it is safe to lift the shower tray without water coming from calorifier , I can get on and do it.

I thought if I could remove all water sitting on the floor of boat , I could turn on water and see if anymore accumulates.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

16 minutes ago, Lizette said:

 

 

If  it is safe to lift the shower tray without water coming from calorifier , I can get on and do it.

I thought if I could remove all water sitting on the floor of boat , I could turn on water and see if anymore accumulates.

 

 

I am finding it difficult to work out what you are asking, a shower tray is just that, a tray you stand in, the plumbing doesn't touch it. maybe you should post a photo of what you have

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, Lizette said:

Hi Tony 

 

I have already done this , although they are still leaking slightly I have used PTFE too. I still think there is a leak from somewhere else and as I have now totally wrecked my bathroom I thought I would lift the shower and drain off the remainder of water which is sitting.

 

At the same time I shall remove the unused pump out tank which does reduce headroom in the bathroom. Any way , I digress.

 

If  it is safe to lift the shower tray without water coming from calorifier , I can get on and do it.

I thought if I could remove all water sitting on the floor of boat , I could turn on water and see if anymore accumulates.

 

 

 

All assuming a conventional boat build (not poured concrete ballast etc.).

 

The shower try should only have its drain pipe on it so I don't see how its possible to drain either the hot or cold water system by simply taking it out.

 

Any water under the shower should drain away to a trap in the cabin floor close to the rear bulkhead UNLESS it's a very old boat, in which case it is likely to drain into the engine area or if someone has built the boat with a large shower "sump" drained by a  bilge pump. So  I am not sure why the water is collecting under the shower tray unless the whole bilge is full of water. Please look for a trap close to the rear bulkhead and see what is under it and report back.

 

If your bilge is full of water having drained it you will find it appears to keep filling up. That is from wataer gradually trickling back through the ballast.

 

If there were another leak almost certainly the domestic water pump would be running periodically throughout the day and night without any water being drawn off so unless it has been doing this I would suspect it's not a plumbing leak. That leaves condensation build up, leaking windows or vents and less likely the big one we don't want to talk about.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Lizette]

Hi 

 

Yes conventional boat (2007 build).

 

The water pump was intermittently running but I thought it was the leaking shower doing this.

 

What is the big one Tony ?!!!

 

 

 

[Lizette]

11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I am finding it difficult to work out what you are asking, a shower tray is just that, a tray you stand in, the plumbing doesn't touch it. maybe you should post a photo of what you have

Hi Brian

 

Thanks, yes I just realised  . Perhaps , as Tony says the water is still there from the shower and I need to continue to drain off where the pump is and is easy to get at until it is all gone (which I thought I had).

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

If you fresh water pump keeps cutting in then you are losing water from the plumbing system, the most common reason for this is the pressure release valve on the calorifer that often just discharges into the bilge of the boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

50 minutes ago, Lizette said:

Hi 

 

Yes conventional boat (2007 build).

 

The water pump was intermittently running but I thought it was the leaking shower doing this.

 

What is the big one Tony ?!!!

 

 

 

 

The one where the captain goes down with his / her ship (a leaking hull)

[Lizette]

40 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you fresh water pump keeps cutting in then you are losing water from the plumbing system, the most common reason for this is the pressure release valve on the calorifer that often just discharges into the bilge of the boat.

How do I resolve this?

[Lizette]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The one where the captain goes down with his / her ship (a leaking hull)

 

Well, I shall sleep with my float next to me just in case!- lol

 

 

Hi All

 

Thanks for your replies- I shall try to drain  water look for leaks, and try and stop shower points from leaking and I may need to tap in to your wisdom again . 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, Lizette said:

How do I resolve this?

 

It can be difficult but you need to find the PRV. It has a plastic knob on top which when you turn it keeps going stiff and easy while clicking. It is probably Ted into the hot outlet from the calorifier but may be screwed into the calorifier itself. In a good installation it will have a hose coming out about halfway up the body, trace that hose and see where it ends up. It could be into the engine bilge, accommodation bilge, or overboard. It may just have a hole in the side. Once you find the valve and can look at the outlet put the pump one and dry the outlet. Look to see if its leaking under pump pressure.

 

It could also be leaking valves in the water pump but that would NOT have filled the bilge. We will leave that for another day.

 

If the shower mixer was leaking then that would cause the water pump to turn on at random intervals but what about now that you have the outlets capped?

 

I fear that you will have to find all the plumbing, dry all the joints and look for leaks under pressure if its not the PRV.

 

Please look for a floor trap at the back of the cabin and if there is not one think about cutting one. Look under the rear steps and in any cupboards at the back of the boat.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Lizette]

Hi Tony

 

I do have a floor trap at back in cupboard but the calorifier is sitting on it. This was installed 3 years ago by the marina engineer. Something , I did notice was that the calorifier hisses when I put the immersion on , when on shoreline. Also , noticed the socket of immersion was warm to the touch. 

 

I cant quite understand your instructions but I shall try to work out and and do as you say. 

 

Shower tap is leaking in spite of cap and tape. I think it is coming from the joint where the water hose fits it on the other side of the wall. I am trying to remove this , so I can pop in to a Marina and get a replacement. 

 

Thanks for all your help

 

 

[Lizette]

47 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It can be difficult but you need to find the PRV. It has a plastic knob on top which when you turn it keeps going stiff and easy while clicking. It is probably Ted into the hot outlet from the calorifier but may be screwed into the calorifier itself. In a good installation it will have a hose coming out about halfway up the body, trace that hose and see where it ends up. It could be into the engine bilge, accommodation bilge, or overboard. It may just have a hole in the side. Once you find the valve and can look at the outlet put the pump one and dry the outlet. Look to see if its leaking under pump pressure.

 

It could also be leaking valves in the water pump but that would NOT have filled the bilge. We will leave that for another day.

 

If the shower mixer was leaking then that would cause the water pump to turn on at random intervals but what about now that you have the outlets capped?

 

I fear that you will have to find all the plumbing, dry all the joints and look for leaks under pressure if its not the PRV.

 

Please look for a floor trap at the back of the cabin and if there is not one think about cutting one. Look under the rear steps and in any cupboards at the back of the boat.

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

The most common type of PRV (pressure relief valve) looks like this -

 

Its job is to release any excess pressure in the system. Very important. Sometimes they can drip because scale gets caught inside and prevents it closing properly. Follow the pipe that comes out of it and find out where the excess water ends up. Could go overboard, or in to the bilge, or in to a bottle that needs to be regularly emptied, or in to the engine bay. Depends. The copper pipe in my picture, but yours may be plastic. Turn the red knob a few times to try and clear the scale.

Jen

[Tony Brooks]

17 minutes ago, Lizette said:

Hi Tony

 

I do have a floor trap at back in cupboard but the calorifier is sitting on it. This was installed 3 years ago by the marina engineer. Something , I did notice was that the calorifier hisses when I put the immersion on , when on shoreline. Also , noticed the socket of immersion was warm to the touch. 

 

I cant quite understand your instructions but I shall try to work out and and do as you say. 

 

Shower tap is leaking in spite of cap and tape. I think it is coming from the joint where the water hose fits it on the other side of the wall. I am trying to remove this , so I can pop in to a Marina and get a replacement. 

 

Thanks for all your help

 

 

 

A or some photos would really help.

 

One would not normally plumb the fixed plumbing in hose so are you talking about a flexible shower hose that runs up to the shower head. If so I would not expect it to run through a "wall". Typically, boat shower mixers/taps tend to be surface mount of semi-recessed with any hose connection on the shower side of the "wall".

 

If it really does go through the wall it may well be leaking and that could easily be a split hose. I fear that you need to get behind the wall, as you say. If you have transport a plumbers merchant would probably be cheaper than a marina.

 

Your other points.

 

The trap. Boats tend to trim down by the stern so any water under the floor will build up at the back of the boat. It is therefore very inportant to fit a trapyou can get into at the back.

 

Immersion heaters can "sing" when in use just like kettles, I suspect this is the hissing you can hear.

 

Immersion heater socket: is this the boss the actual heater screws into or the mains plug on the end of the cable. If its the boss its normal whenever anything heats the water.

 

 

[Lizette]

Thanks Tony 

 

With regard to shower connectors the connector goes from the shower into kitchen wall and then the hot and cold hoses run down to the floor and runs along the sides. I can see the area on the wall is damp , so I think this might be the problem . 

 

The phot from Jen helped, unfortunately I cannot seem to upload photos taken but I think I have located PRV and followed pipe down . There does not seem any evidence of damp. 

 

I will certainly do what you say re: creating hatch and part required.

 

I shall let you know how I get on.

 

Liza

[blackrose]

Whereabouts are you? It sounds like you need help from someone with a wetvac and ideally access to shore power or a generator. My neighbor recently sucked about 250 litres of water out of the bilges of his boat using my wetvac. It had all come from his leaking pump (Shurflo) and his leaking shower drain.

Edited April 26, 2021 by blackrose

[Lizette]

On 26/04/2021 at 20:19, blackrose said:

Whereabouts are you? It sounds like you need help from someone with a wetvac and ideally access to shore power or a generator. My neighbor recently sucked about 250 litres of water out of the bilges of his boat using my wetvac. It had all come from his leaking pump (Shurflo) and his leaking shower drain.

Hi Sorry. I have only just picked this message up.

 

I am currently just outside of Braunston tunnel.

[Tony Brooks]

25 minutes ago, Lizette said:

Hi Sorry. I have only just picked this message up.

 

I am currently just outside of Braunston tunnel.

In that case there is more hope of help that if it were London.