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'm new to all this and looking at best options in terms of purchasing a live aboard barge.  To me, it looks like the best and most cost effective way forward is to have a boat built to a "sailaway" point, though with the right engine additions, bow thrusters and lined. I run a construction company and have interior fitters.

 

My heart tells me i want a Dutch Barge style of around 18/20m & 4m wide.  I will be living on the Thames but ideally I'd like to take it across the channel as well, so coastal waters compliant. However, if all that is too expensive, a 64x12'6 Widebeam style vessel will suit as a starter. 

 

The Q is...where do i go for best value for money as its very confusing.

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Just now, Simon Shearman said:

yep, not sure which one to put it on, just joined today

 

No problem. moderators will merege them.

They will both be seen as they will come up as new posts irrespevctive of where you post them.

 

Good luck with your plans.

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It can be done Timothy Spall did it and took his boar round the British isles for TV.  Barges being flat bottomed can be very uncomfortable in any waves though.

If you are going to take it to the continent you need to look at the required paperwork now we are not part of Europe. VAT is going to be tricky.

You also need to  look at the requirements of the RCD. (recreational craft directive) for the fit out there are various rules and regs that need to considered, especially as the legal liabilty lasts for the life of the boat.

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6 minutes ago, Detling said:

It can be done Timothy Spall did it and took his boar round the British isles for TV.

 

It was a good series but it did take him 6 years and a number of call-outs to the lifeboats. He even got lost in the Medway estuary, thinking he was following the coast and ended up going around and around and around an island. Needed the lifeboats (again) to point him in the right direction

 

He might be trying to circumnavigate Britain in a barge, but that doesn't mean actor Timothy Spall knows his way.

The Auf Wiedersehen Pet star and a film crew had to be rescued by an RNLI lifeboat after getting lost on the River Medway on Wednesday night.

He is filming the epic voyage in a boat called Princess Matilda for a BBC series called Back At Sea.

Spall and his crew called for help from the Sheerness RNLI lifeboat crew, who found his 55ft Dutch barge just off Stangate Creek.

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No problem. moderators will merege them.

They will both be seen as they will come up as new posts irrespevctive of where you post them.

 

Good luck with your plans.

Thanks for the heads up

6 minutes ago, Detling said:

It can be done Timothy Spall did it and took his boar round the British isles for TV.  Barges being flat bottomed can be very uncomfortable in any waves though.

If you are going to take it to the continent you need to look at the required paperwork now we are not part of Europe. VAT is going to be tricky.

You also need to  look at the requirements of the RCD. (recreational craft directive) for the fit out there are various rules and regs that need to considered, especially as the legal liabilty lasts for the life of the boat.

Much appreciated, I did watch that program with interest. I'll look up all the required detial.

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There’s a new build shell at Braunston ready for fit out not sure on width but it’s a Dutch barge replica possibly 20m x 3.5. Peter Nicholls will know about it.

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If you are intending to take it into inland France then be aware that some of the French canal ports are not welcoming to boats over 15 metres. That's not to say that you can't manage by avoiding those ports but boats of your proposed  length aren't welcome in every port.

Roger

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Just now, Athy said:

I'm not good at mereging, but I've closed the other one as it has only one reply in it.

Thank you sir!

1 minute ago, Albion said:

If you are intending to take it into inland France then be aware that some of the French canal ports are not welcoming to boats over 15 metres. That's not to say that you can't manage by avoiding those ports but boats of your proposed  length aren't welcome in every port.

Roger

Noted and thank you.

I had Peter Nicholls down as an organisation to call, thank you.

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1 minute ago, Albion said:

If you are intending to take it into inland France then be aware that some of the French canal ports are not welcoming to boats over 15 metres. That's not to say that you can't manage by avoiding those ports but boats of your proposed  length aren't welcome in every port.

Roger

We had a 22m for 18 years in France and Belgium. There are some ports with small pontoons only but there are lots of halte nautiques that are linear moorings. We never had a problem mooring!

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Transferred from the other (closed) thread

 

 

18 minutes ago, Simon Shearman said:

I'd like to take it across the channel as well, so coastal waters compliant

 

Do you have any experience of 'lumpy water' boating ?

 

The English Channel is classed as the busiest waterway in the world and when you are going 'across' it is like trying to walk across the M1 motorway as the vast majority of boats are heading 'up' or 'down' the channel.

Crossing the channel is not the same as 'coastal cruising' and a category D (Inland waterways) boat will not be 'ideal' for open water crossings of 20+ miles.

Cat C is for estuary or 'bays', not open water.

 

You would need a CatB boat.

 

Design Category A ~ 'OCEAN'

Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed winds of Beaufort F8 and significant wave heights of 4m and above, and for which vessels must be largely self-sufficient.

Design Category B ~ 'OFFSHORE'

Designed for offshore voyages where conditions up to, and including winds of wind force 8 and significant wave heights up to, and including 4m may be experienced.

Design Category C ~ 'INSHORE'

Designed for sailing in coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes and rivers where conditions up to and wind force 6 and significant wave heights up to, and including 2m may be experienced.

Design Category D ~ 'SHELTERED WATERS'

Designed for sailing on small lakes, rivers and canals where conditions up to and wind F4 and significant wave heights up to, and including 0.5m may be experienced.

 

 

Are you aware of what qualifications you need to take your boat onto French waterways (bear in mind we are no longer in the EU) ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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9 minutes ago, Dav and Pen said:

There’s a new build shell at Braunston ready for fit out not sure on width but it’s a Dutch barge replica possibly 20m x 3.5. Peter Nicholls will know about it.

Timothy's boat is a Peter Nicholls 

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33 minutes ago, Simon Shearman said:

Thanks for the heads up

Much appreciated, I did watch that program with interest. I'll look up all the required detial.

Just worth mentioning that Timothy's programme was  good for pure entertainment but not quite so good as an instructional film😉

 

Howard

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12 minutes ago, howardang said:

Just worth mentioning that Timothy's programme was  good for pure entertainment but not quite so good as an instructional film

 

 

Maybe better viewd as a 'how not to do it' film.

His "learning navigation for all ages'" book is a typical example (as seen in the video I linked to)

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There are difficulties, living on the Thames is difficult, moorings are few and far between and expensive. Phone around a few Thames marinas to get an up to date idea. Anything over 20m in Europe falls into another layer of rules and regs.  Keeping under 15 m does indeed make life easier but over that length is hardly the end of the world. Post Brexit you need to keep a very close eye on VAT and moving between the EU and UK. This is a minefield, The Royal Yacht Association is a go to source of info as is the Dutch Barge Association. A lined sailaway is perhaps an expensive route. The UK has pretty much adopted all the EU Recreational Craft directive standards and added a few procedures of its own just for fun. These may diverge post brexit as time goes on. A secondhand boat would be my choice and if you would like to explore Europe then my choice would be to buy a boat that is already in the EU and can prove to have been there 31st Dec. This makes it Union Goods. Bear in mind that you cannot stay longer than 90 days in a 6 month period A longer stay visa is available for France but this might not be the case for the neighbouring countries, Belgium, Holland etc. Building a boat is not the hard part now, you need to get your head round the rules and regs.

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14 minutes ago, Bee said:

Post Brexit you need to keep a very close eye on VAT and moving between the EU and UK. This is a minefield, The Royal Yacht Association is a go to source of info as is the Dutch Barge Association. A lined sailaway is perhaps an expensive route. The UK has pretty much adopted all the EU Recreational Craft directive standards and added a few procedures of its own just for fun. These may diverge post brexit as time goes on. A secondhand boat would be my choice and if you would like to explore Europe then my choice would be to buy a boat that is already in the EU and can prove to have been there 31st Dec.

 

 

I have recently received a 'location certificate' from my Marina, along with  a copy of a VAT invoice for my mooring showing my boat was in the UK at 11pm 31st December.

 

Extract :

 

As of 31st of December 2020, 11 pm (UTC) Great Britain has ceased to be part of the Customs Territory of the EU.

 

Recreational boats lying in GB at the time will cease to be in free circulation in the 'Customs Territory of the EU. They will no longer have Union status and will be treated by the UK as 'domestic goods'. ln order to evidence this status of 'domestic goods' in the future you will need to continue to retain evidence of VAT paid status and you must also obtain and keep evidence to demonstrate "Bezimeni's" location at the end of the transition period.

 

The Multihull Centre is hereby confirming that "Bezimeni" was stored on land here at the Multihull Centre, Foss Quay, Mill Road, Millbrook, Cornwall, UK on the 31st Dec 2020  at 11pm. I have also enclosed the December berthing invoice paid to confirm this. You will need to keep this letter and invoice for your records in case of any future sale of "Bezimeni".

 

Yours sincerely  Alex Frodel Office Manager

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Bee said:

A secondhand boat would be my choice and if you would like to explore Europe then my choice would be to buy a boat that is already in the EU and can prove to have been there 31st Dec.

 

 

The problem then being when it brings it back to the Thames to live on it will be subject to VAT (and Duty ?)

 

The answer is a 'canal boat' in the Uk and a big boat on the continent.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, Dav and Pen said:

We had a 22m for 18 years in France and Belgium. There are some ports with small pontoons only but there are lots of halte nautiques that are linear moorings. We never had a problem mooring!

Exactly, I'm not saying that you can't manage but it is a fact that some, even with longer moorings, don't encourage 15 m plus boats. Can't remember the names of some of them now as we gave up boating in France in 2017. We heard about them measuring the boat as you arrived before deciding to allow a mooring or not. Never personally went to any of those but had it on good authority.

Roger

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It was a good series but it did take him 6 years and a number of call-outs to the lifeboats. He even got lost in the Medway estuary, thinking he was following the coast and ended up going around and around and around an island. Needed the lifeboats (again) to point him in the right direction

Yes, I enjoyed it too, but it's hard to see how one can really "get lost in the Medway" when one has charts, a GPS, and a TV film crew aboard!

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I think you said your budget was limited on the other thread. If so then I think you'd be better off buying a used boat which has already been fitted out. You'll get more for your money. You may get labour at cost price having your own construction business, but most construction workers know nothing about how to fit a boat out. 

 

If it's your first self-fitout you're going to get things wrong as we all did so you may as well find out what you like and what you don't on a boat that's already been fitted and save yourself both time and money.

 

Have a look on the Bowcrest Marine website. Usually some decent boats on there. Plus Apollo Duck of course.

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