"Tiller bar" to "Wheel" steerage conversion

[Chris J W]

For sundry, very valid reasons to me, I'm considering the real possibility of having to have my currently "tiller bar" steering converted to "wheel".

 

Has anyone had any experience of having had this done? I would assume it's a, ah-hem, simple thing of gears and chains - but the wonderful thing about simple ideas is that they never seem that simple to achieve in real life!

[blackrose]

For sundry, very valid reasons to me, I'm considering the real possibility of having to have my currently "tiller bar" steering converted to "wheel".

 

Has anyone had any experience of having had this done? I would assume it's a, ah-hem, simple thing of gears and chains - but the wonderful thing about simple ideas is that they never seem that simple to achieve in real life!

 

I've no useful advice to give you but I'd be interested to see how you get on.

 

If you don't mind, what are your reasons?

 

The disadvantage of a wheel (without a rudder position indicator that some Dutch barges have fitted), is that it's possible to forget where the rudder is, with a tiller you always know. The other thing is that any gear & chain mechanism or hydraulic system you fit will never be as reliable as direct tiller steering because it has more moving parts. For that reason with wheel steering you should always have some sort of jury rig which you can quickly connect to the rudder. In your case your jury rig could be your tiller - so by all means add a wheel, but don't get rid of the swan neck and keep the tiller bar handy.

 

I'm trying to think of any advantages of wheel steering on a narrowboat or any boat designed with the steering position at the stern? I'm sure there must be something...

 

I'm getting ready for some flack from barge owners with wheel steering...

Edited October 12, 2007 by blackrose

[Chris J W]

I've no useful advice to give you but I'd be interested to see how you get on.

 

If you don't mind, what are your reasons?

 

The disadvantage of a wheel (without a rudder position indicator that some Dutch barges have fitted), is that it's possible to forget where the rudder is, with a tiller you always know. The other thing is that any gear & chain mechanism or hydraulic system you fit will never be as reliable as direct tiller steering because it has more moving parts. For that reason with wheel steering you should always have some sort of jury rig which you can quickly connect to the rudder. In your case your jury rig could be your tiller - so by all means add a wheel, but don't get rid of the swan neck and keep the tiller bar handy.

 

I'm trying to think of the advantages of wheel steering - apart from the fact that it looks good of course!

 

I'm getting ready for some flack from barge owners with wheel steering...

 

Suffice to say, I have my reasons for asking ... :cheers:

 

I would have thought you'ld know where the rudder is via the 'point' system where-by you've a known point/handle on the wheel that corresponds to straight forward compared with, in this case, the tiller bar?

 

[edit to say Rudder rather than Tiller]

Edited October 12, 2007 by Chris J W

[carlt]

For sundry, very valid reasons to me, I'm considering the real possibility of having to have my currently "tiller bar" steering converted to "wheel".

 

Has anyone had any experience of having had this done? I would assume it's a, ah-hem, simple thing of gears and chains - but the wonderful thing about simple ideas is that they never seem that simple to achieve in real life!

Well not a narrow boat but my life boat was converted from tiller to wheel, and I restored the jiggery pokery on a Silverette once.

 

The simplest system is wire steering, to install, and maintain. The commonest are the whitlock or lewmar systems. You may need to adapt them a bit for nb use but it's pretty much a case of running the cables from wheel to rudder.

 

 

Rack & pinion and 'rotating torque tube and gearbox' systems are the other two.

[blackrose]

I would have thought you'ld know where the rudder is via the 'point' system where-by you've a known point/handle on the wheel that corresponds to straight forward compared with, in this case, the tiller bar?

 

On the barges I've seen with wheel steering it's not that simple - I don't know why it's done like that but depending on the gearing the wheel may have to go around two or three times in a turn before you bring it back again to straighten up.

[Chris J W]

Well not a narrow boat but my life boat was converted from tiller to wheel, and I restored the jiggery pokery on a Silverette once.

 

The simplest system is wire steering, to install, and maintain. The commonest are the whitlock or lewmar systems. You may need to adapt them a bit for nb use but it's pretty much a case of running the cables from wheel to rudder.

Rack & pinion and 'rotating torque tube and gearbox' systems are the other two.

 

Any links to examples?

[carlt]

I've no useful advice to give you but I'd be interested to see how you get on.

 

If you don't mind, what are your reasons?

 

The disadvantage of a wheel (without a rudder position indicator that some Dutch barges have fitted), is that it's possible to forget where the rudder is, with a tiller you always know. The other thing is that any gear & chain mechanism or hydraulic system you fit will never be as reliable as direct tiller steering because it has more moving parts. For that reason with wheel steering you should always have some sort of jury rig which you can quickly connect to the rudder. In your case your jury rig could be your tiller - so by all means add a wheel, but don't get rid of the swan neck and keep the tiller bar handy.

 

I'm trying to think of any advantages of wheel steering on a narrowboat or any boat designed with the steering position at the stern? I'm sure there must be something...

 

I'm getting ready for some flack from barge owners with wheel steering...

 

Pretty much all wheels have a stud to indicate the rudder position. the wire system is very reliable (as long as the pulleys are firmly fixed, and oiled regularly). It's a lot less work with a wheel because you have the mechanical advantage of the pulley system and the warmth and dryness of a wheelhouse has its plus points.

 

As for reliability, I've had the wire jump off the pully wheel once but I've also been halfway through Braunston tunnel on a friend's boat when he handed me his tiller and swan neck, which was no longer attached to the rudder. Scary!

[magnetman]

With a hydraulic ram system you could have several wheel positions including a 'flybridge'. I'd love to have a nice high flybridge on a narrowboat to wave down to the gin palaces from, on the Thames.

[Chris J W]

On the barges I've seen with wheel steering it's not that simple - I don't know why it's done like that but depending on the gearing the wheel may have to go around two or three times in a turn before you bring it back again to straighten up.

I agree, and would have thought it probably would be a gearing issue; having to have suffient torque at the wheel and the tiller whilst maintaining best stress/strain on all the wires/ropes/chains/gears et-al inbetween.

With a hydraulic ram system you could have several wheel positions including a 'flybridge'. I'd love to have a nice high flybridge on a narrowboat to wave down to the gin palaces from, on the Thames.

You just want more places to dangle mangets!

With a hydraulic ram system you could have several wheel positions including a 'flybridge'. I'd love to have a nice high flybridge on a narrowboat to wave down to the gin palaces from, on the Thames.

But, more seriously, hydraulics would probably lead themselves to electro-mechanical steering via a joystick rather than a wheel. Now there's a thought .... Edited October 12, 2007 by Chris J W

[carlt]

Any links to examples?

 

Lewmar Clicky

 

Can't find anything very informative from whitlocks (just distributors) could be the late hour of course!

[Chris J W]

Lewmar Clicky

 

Can't find anything very informative from whitlocks (just distributors) could be the late hour of course!

 

Ta!

 

Blimey? Is that the time? Not surprised my battery monitor has just started moaning at me about having the TV, DVD and Laptop running for the last few hours! Sack time, I think ...

[RobinJ]

For sundry, very valid reasons to me, I'm considering the real possibility of having to have my currently "tiller bar" steering converted to "wheel".

 

Has anyone had any experience of having had this done? I would assume it's a, ah-hem, simple thing of gears and chains - but the wonderful thing about simple ideas is that they never seem that simple to achieve in real life!

Not seen it on a narrowboat, but various other types!

It involves the attachment of a quadrant or arm to the tiller post, normally below the deck or cockpit. Here in lies the problem as on a narrowboat the rudder tube is normally in the fuel tank!

 

Logically you would leave the rudder in place so a tiller could still be attached (emergencies), options might be hydralic connected directly to the top of the rudder bearing, or cable attached to part of the swan neck, it might to easy to clamp on. If any event a securing point would be needed (action - reaction), on a trad this may be difficult.

 

The old rule of thumb was 3 to the left and 3 to the right!

Edited October 12, 2007 by RobinJ

[Liam]

Logically you would leave the rudder in place so a tiller could still be attached

Logically you would leave the rudder in place... so you're still able to steer the damned thing!

 

There's a narrowboat with both tiller and wheel steering at Steve's (Pie Eater's) mooring. Maybe he could provide you with more info if he's about? The bloke built his own boat and is able to use the tiller on the back deck or the wheel from just inside the hatches on a trad style boat.

[magnetman]

I once saw a 50ft (approx) traditional style narrowboat being steered by wheel from just inside the front door, very odd to see a narrowboat approaching, obviously under control but nobody at the tiller.

[khaffra]

My dad is fitting a steering wheel in the front cockpit of his narrowboat over this winter as an alternative to standing on the back when it rains.

I know he has lots of plans and ideas, I will let you know how he progress's and how well it works.

 

Looking forward to the reaction of people he passes with apparently nobody at the controls.

[Gary Peacock]

Isn't hard to do you can get all the bits from Us, Vetus or Aquafax. Joystick set up gets a bit more involved if you want to be really flash.

 

On a trad stern it would need to have some fabrication done to mount the hydraulic ram and enclose it.

 

This is what you would need to find room for-

 

 

Manual set up-

 

 

And this is the joystick setup-

 

 

Electickery-

 

[Scotty]

wow, some nice gear there.

 

just a few servos away from being a radio controllable boat too

[Chris-B]

wow, some nice gear there.

 

just a few servos away from being a radio controllable boat too

Visions of the HBF zigzagging along the summit spring to mind ....

 

 

 

Ok i'll get the coat on

[Chris J W]

Visions of the HBF zigzagging along the summit spring to mind ....

Ok i'll get the coat on

 

I can zig-zag perfectly well without radio-control, thank you very much!

 

Gary - some good gear there, cheers!

[khaffra]

Have looked into the vetus gear you can buy and it ends up very expensive.

I wanted to go for radio control but my dad seemed a bit cautious of the idea.

[Gary Peacock]

"Have looked into the vetus gear you can buy and it ends up very expensive."

 

 

And there you have in a nutshell why new boats are so expensive!

 

Sorry to be a bit sarcastic but it's true.

 

 

If you do the Radio control thing almost certainly BW and the HSE will get twitchy very quickly.

[khaffra]

"Have looked into the vetus gear you can buy and it ends up very expensive."

And there you have in a nutshell why new boats are so expensive!

 

Sorry to be a bit sarcastic but it's true.

If you do the Radio control thing almost certainly BW and the HSE will get twitchy very quickly.

 

 

Yeah I agree Gary, just looking at a cheaper way of doing things with a bit of scrapheap challenge style engineering instead of buying a kit of expensive bits as this isn't a new boat. (and that doesn't mean it will be a bodge. LOL)

 

Yeah my dad put paid to the radio control on the same basis as probably the HSE would. But on the other hand what happens if the control box goes wrong on the system below? Radio control units are exceptionally reliable and when used on 2.4ghz spectrum channels do not suffer any interference or possibility of somebody else being on the same channel, Also they reset themselves to a known safety point if there was ever a problem between the transmitter and receiver.

[Yoda]

Yeah I agree Gary, just looking at a cheaper way of doing things with a bit of scrapheap challenge style engineering instead of buying a kit of expensive bits as this isn't a new boat. (and that doesn't mean it will be a bodge. LOL)

 

Yeah my dad put paid to the radio control on the same basis as probably the HSE would. But on the other hand what happens if the control box goes wrong on the system below? Radio control units are exceptionally reliable and when used on 2.4ghz spectrum channels do not suffer any interference or possibility of somebody else being on the same channel, Also they reset themselves to a known safety point if there was ever a problem between the transmitter and receiver.

 

I think the reliability and lack of interference problems at this well used frequency are down to digital transmissions. Certainly if this was not digital, then microwave ovens would be in control.

 

It would not be difficult to fully R/C a boat and control it in and out of locks etc.

[Jonathan B]

For sundry, very valid reasons to me, I'm considering the real possibility of having to have my currently "tiller bar" steering converted to "wheel".

 

Has anyone had any experience of having had this done? I would assume it's a, ah-hem, simple thing of gears and chains - but the wonderful thing about simple ideas is that they never seem that simple to achieve in real life!

 

 

I have rear and foredeck wheel steerage on my narrowboat with tiller steerage being added later. If you are anywhere near my moorage in Higher Poynton, you are welcome to have a look.

[Keeping Up]

The lock-keeper at Watford last week told us an interesting tale. An elderly couple had had wheel steerage added to the front of their narrowboat recently. Earlier this summer they had passed through Crick tunnel and then continued to the top of Watford Locks (about another half hour), unaware that their electrical systems at the stern of the boat had caught fire while they were in the tunnel, as evidenced by the stench of burning insulation encountered by the boat behind them. They arrived at Watford followed by a cloud of smoke, wondering why the boat behind kept hooting and the people on the towpath kept shouting at them (they were a little deaf).

 

Allan