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MartynG

River Trent tidal locks reduced service

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21 minutes ago, MartynG said:

It does seem C&RT head office don't have  a great understanding of  tides .

I suppose is it not a pre-requisite ...........................

But you would expect them to have at least an idea about the effects of the moon.

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I am heading out from Keadby to Cromwell on Saturday 25th at around 08:30... anyone else?

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Presently at Torksey.
On arrival at Torksey the lock keeper (volunteer I think) advised us Cromwell Lock is out of action tomorrow (Thursday) but he  didn't know why. He understood the lock would be operated for one pen only at mid day on Friday (which is a bit early relative to tides for boats travelling up from Torksey).

 

Following further investigation by phone with the Cromwell lock keeper it turns out the problem is the full time lock keeper is on days off  on Thursday and Friday and there seems to be  a shortage of people available who can operate the lock.  

We are thinking it's more like C&RT not wanting to pay for a lock keeper .  Not sure if this is Coronavirus related or just part of an underlying C&RT campaign to deter boating . I guess C&RT still have people furloughed.

 

With support from the full time lock keeper at Cromwell we have  successfully booked a passage for  tomorrow (Thursday).

 

In the meantime it seems  someone has been inspecting boats for valid licenses . .......... at least C&RT  have that part right.

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2 hours ago, Cinimod said:

I am heading out from Keadby to Cromwell on Saturday 25th at around 08:30... anyone else?

I'm at Keadby, thinking about the Chesterfield canal, not sure how to plan tides.

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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

I'm at Keadby, thinking about the Chesterfield canal, not sure how to plan tides.

You dont, the moon and God does.

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27 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm at Keadby, thinking about the Chesterfield canal, not sure how to plan tides.

I thought you were a lumpy-water sailor, and you never plotted tides or used the tidal stream atlas ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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52 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm at Keadby, thinking about the Chesterfield canal, not sure how to plan tides.

I talked to the lock keeper and he gave advice on the best time to go... about 7:40 on Friday or 8:30 on Saturday (so around 6:50 tomorrow I guess)

 

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53 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm at Keadby, thinking about the Chesterfield canal, not sure how to plan tides.

You don't have to.  Tell the keeper (if you can find one) your intentions and they'll let you out at about the right time.  It's not a long trip to Stockwith. 

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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

I'm at Keadby, thinking about the Chesterfield canal, not sure how to plan tides.

Exit  Keadby lock at HW Hull

12 miles 

Aim to arrive West Stockwith at HWHull +2hrs  

enter West Stockwith at HW slack or on the Ebb 

 

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11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought you were a lumpy-water sailor, and you never plotted tides or used the tidal stream atlas ?

Maybe she realises that on the tidal Trent it is not that easy. The amount of fresh (which often cannot be assumed without inspection) makes a significant different both to timing and whether or not a specific journey is sensible. Always best to consult a lock keeper, even if they are not infallible. In the end it is always the skipper's responsibility to make the final decision.

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Just now, Mike Todd said:

Maybe she realises that on the tidal Trent it is not that easy. The amount of fresh (which often cannot be assumed without inspection) makes a significant different both to timing and whether or not a specific journey is sensible. Always best to consult a lock keeper, even if they are not infallible. In the end it is always the skipper's responsibility to make the final decision.

I did a trip down from Teddington last autumn, and the flow was outbound even when the tide was (nominally) coming in. 150 cubic metres a second coming over Teddington weir...

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5 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Maybe she realises that on the tidal Trent it is not that easy. The amount of fresh (which often cannot be assumed without inspection) makes a significant different both to timing and whether or not a specific journey is sensible. Always best to consult a lock keeper, even if they are not infallible. In the end it is always the skipper's responsibility to make the final decision.

The tidal Trent is not that difficult for someone with lumpy water experience.

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10 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Always best to consult a lock keeper,

I'd agree that that used to be the case but the current crop of Lock keepers seem to little or no knowledge of the river, or the operating procedures, they are simply following a 'check-list'

 

Example :

 

Torksey (Tidal) Lock.

We had been waiting to enter from the Trent and knowing that the levels should now be OK, & with the lockie not now answering the VHF I went up to find out what the delay was.

 

He explained that he wasn't allowed to operate the lock until the level reached a 'paint mark' showing that there was 6 feet over the cill.

I explained that we only needed 2 feet but he said they are the rules I have to stick to.

I asked what about neap tides when you may not get 6 feet over the cill and he said "dunno it might not be me on duty as just anyone can now be put on lock duty"

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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3 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Maybe she realises that on the tidal Trent it is not that easy. The amount of fresh (which often cannot be assumed without inspection) makes a significant different both to timing and whether or not a specific journey is sensible. 

Not much fresh on and big tides today and the next couple of days .

While lots of fresh on impacts the tides below Gainsboroough that does not apply at the moment 

Yesterday we got 3knots from the tide on the first part of the journey  going out of West Stockwith towards Torksey and probably still a couple of knots all the way to Torksey.

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3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

The tidal Trent is not that difficult for someone with lumpy water experience.

I wasn't suggesting it was difficult but that experience may lead someone to realise that it can be complex.

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4 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

The tidal Trent is not that difficult for someone with lumpy water experience.

The Trent is quite frightening for a lumpy water sailor as it is so 'small' no room for manoeuvring & sooooo shallow.
I am always more 'aware' (tense ?, apprehensive ?) on the Trent than on the open sea.

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3 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I wasn't suggesting it was difficult but that experience may lead someone to realise that it can be complex.

Its not complex if you can read the charts and tides guide (already provided)

 

It is far simpler than trying to plan a course (say) from Southampton to Cadiz when you have (probably) 3 or 4 tides pushing you sideways and then pushing you sideways the other way so if you do not plan properly you end up doing a huge Z with very little forward movement.

On the river the tide is either dead ahead or dead astern.

The charts show the sandbanks and narrows, the tidal flow 'graph' shows the state of the tide at each step down the River.

 

Anyone who has (allegedly) undertaken offshore racing would have no problems.

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Its not complex if you can read the charts and tides guide (already provided)

 

It is far simpler than trying to plan a course (say) from Southampton to Cadiz when you have (probably) 3 or 4 tides pushing you sideways and then pushing you sideways the other way so if you do not plan properly you end up doing a huge Z with very little forward movement.

On the river the tide is either dead ahead or dead astern.

The charts show the sandbanks and narrows, the tidal flow 'graph' shows the state of the tide at each step down the River.

 

Anyone who has (allegedly) undertaken offshore racing would have no problems.

As I said - and speaking from experience - the charts and tide tables do not tell you all that you need to know.

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10 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

As I said - and speaking from experience - the charts and tide tables do not tell you all that you need to know.

Then we will have to disagree, and speaking from experience I'd suggest that anyone who can correctly plan a tidal voyage on the sea would not be 'struggling to work with a bit of fresh' coming down the Trent.

 

As I'm sure you know, air pressure and wind can seriously affect tidal heights and patterns, and, adapting and changing plans is second nature

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19 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

As I said - and speaking from experience - the charts and tide tables do not tell you all that you need to know.

They tell you enough to plan and make the trip safely.

 

Any lumpy water skipper should be able to take the tide information readily available and plan their trip from Keadby to West Stockwith. It isn't rocket science for someone who allegedly has experience of making a sea passage.

29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Trent is quite frightening for a lumpy water sailor as it is so 'small' no room for manoeuvring & sooooo shallow.
I am always more 'aware' (tense ?, apprehensive ?) on the Trent than on the open sea.

Yes we are always aware of how small it is when heading back from a sea trip. 

 

But that doesn't change the fact that planning a tidal passage from Keadby to West Stockwith should be childs play for an experienced sea sailor.

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2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

They tell you enough to plan and make the trip safely.

 

Any lumpy water skipper should be able to take the tide information readily available and plan their trip from Keadby to West Stockwith. It isn't rocket science for someone who allegedly has experience of making a sea passage.

Yes we are always aware of how small it is when heading back from a sea trip. 

 

But that doesn't change the fact that planning a tidal passage from Keadby to West Stockwith should be childs play for an experienced sea sailor.

Sorry but our personal experience says otherwise

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25 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Sorry but our personal experience says otherwise

With which bit?

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