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Mike Adams

Photo in old waterways world

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Now I have some forced time on my hands I am trying to put together as much history as I can on my GU Paddington Arm canal tug 'White Heather' . I remember ther was a photo in an old Waterways World(when it was in black and white) showing a view of Hanwell Yard(Norwood Top) where the boat was based with White Heather in what appeared to be BTC or BTW colours of blue with yellow coach lines and a BTW logo on the funnel. If anyone is browsing through old WW's please let me know if they find it. Unfortunately I threw all mine out some years  ago.

Here is picture of the boat when it was rather sad and without its funnel.

image.jpeg.f81106923f1e063b20f6be6651a23eb8.jpeg

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Not the photograph you are looking for but this is from the Alan Elyard Brown collection, and most likely at Cowley Peachey 28 July 1967 :captain:

 

618105252_AEB19682(possiblyCowleyPeachey28July1967)(WHITEHEATHER).JPG.f7f4c3052690a75ae40d885470ab576c.JPG

 

edit = I also have a transcript of WHITE HEATHER's cardex from Bulls Bridge:

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...

MAINTENANCE TUGS.

 

WHITE HEATHER. Section 5, Steel, Built c1924                Padd 330                  44’0 7’0 3’6 4’0

1939 ex St. Marylebone Council.

Dist Thomas Clayton (Paddington) Ltd.

Tonnage 12

Original engine: Robey of Lincoln semi-diesel 2 cylinder 46441, 44Hp @ 400 rpm, Gearbox: make unknown. Watercooled silencer

Direct drive through epicyclic box. CI cl plates. Wheel & chain steering, air compressor, air bottles

12/1958 Engine: R.A. Lister Freedom 32Hp @ 1500 rpm. 3¾ x 4½. C.A.V. Starter.

              Gearbox: Lister hydraulic, Reduction gear: Type 3R

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...

Edited by pete harrison

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Lister Freedom at 32 HP would presumably be an FR4. Not come across one of those before. 

Edited by David Mack

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33 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Lister Freedom at 32 HP would presumably be an FR4. Not come across one of those before. 

No, it was an FR3M - subsequently fitted into the B.C.N. day boat conversion IONA :captain:

 

edit - most 'British Waterways' Lister FR3's were either 24hp or 27hp.

Edited by pete harrison

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SNAP!

 

Probably the same location, below Cowley on the offside. This I took at Christmas '82 or '83. Jason Murrell was the skipper.

 

 

 

628525754_WHITEHEATHERGeneral028(Medium).jpg.6cd0d351d55997a9b7fc58d292a34606.jpg

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12 hours ago, pete harrison said:

No, it was an FR3M - subsequently fitted into the B.C.N. day boat conversion IONA :captain:

 

edit - most 'British Waterways' Lister FR3's were either 24hp or 27hp.

That's not consistent with published Lister data (e.g http://realdiesels.co.uk/listerdata.html) which gives the FR3 and FR3M as 27 HP @ 1800 rpm and the FR4/FR4M as 36/40 HP  @ 1800 rpm which would equate to around 32HP @ 1500 rpm.

Edited by David Mack

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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

That's not consistent with published Lister data (e.g http://realdiesels.co.uk/listerdata.html) which gives the FR3 and FR3M as 27 HP @ 1800 rpm and the FR4/FR4M as 37/40 HP  @ 1800 rpm which would equate to around 32HP @ 1500 rpm.

I am not disputing the numbers, just quoting them. Perhaps the wrong horse power rating @ 1500rpm was recorded on the Bulls Bridge cardex :captain:

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Thanks Pete. I have never seen this picture before and at 1967 it probably predates the one below which shows the boat, above Camden lock I think, and you can just make out the BW wave logo on the side. It also shows the very large cut out ventilator on the port side. I thought the FR3M was a water cooled engine so I am not sure if there was another engine fitted between the Robey and the FR3. The first photo I posted shows the boat with what looks like the original engine and funnel removed and judging by the waterline quite empty but still with the Marylebone council shed wheelhouse that was fitted to both White Heather and Tyburn (ex W and B Birmigham).  Maybe it was during a BTW refit. When I first can about the boat in the 1970's it was derilict at the top of Norwood locks when it had been disposed of by BW and without engine.

image.jpeg.a226a453987c205bd46d1a80618b640d.jpeg

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Tug of War, Canalway Cavalcade 1993

 

 

117 Canalway Cavalcade 1993.jpg

Edited by Tim Lewis
  • Greenie 1

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13 hours ago, pete harrison said:

No, it was an FR3M - subsequently fitted into the B.C.N. day boat conversion IONA :captain:

 

edit - most 'British Waterways' Lister FR3's were either 24hp or 27hp.

 

2 hours ago, archie57 said:

When I saw it at Hanwell yard it had a Petter PD4 in it 

I am now starting to wonder whether the FR3M removed from WHITE HEATHER and fitted into IONA was put into WHITE HEATHER by Jason Murrell during his ownership, and that the Lister Freedom quoted on the Bulls Bridge cardex is a completely different engine :captain:

Edited by pete harrison

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27 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

It also shows the very large cut out ventilator on the port side. I thought the FR3M was a water cooled engine so I am not sure if there was another engine fitted between the Robey and the FR3.

 

Yes, FRs are water cooled. That large air vent could could be for the PD4 Archie refers to in post #5. 

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I am sure the engine put into White Heather by Jason was a lowline Ford 6D. When I swapped the boat for Coronis that was still in it but I took that out because it was blelching smoke and leaking oil everywhere and fitted a Dorman 3LB. Unfortunately that increased the draught too much so after an attempted trip up the oxford canal I took it out and installed the Toyota engine which it still has today. That was supposed to be a temporary solution but since it has run for some 20 years now with only oil and filter changes I haven't done anything about changing it out. That makes 6 engines in 88 years if it had a Petter at some stage.!

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21 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

I am sure the engine put into White Heather by Jason was a lowline Ford 6D. When I swapped the boat for Coronis that was still in it but I took that out because it was blelching smoke and leaking oil everywhere and fitted a Dorman 3LB. Unfortunately that increased the draught too much so after an attempted trip up the oxford canal I took it out and installed the Toyota engine which it still has today. That was supposed to be a temporary solution but since it has run for some 20 years now with only oil and filter changes I haven't done anything about changing it out. That makes 6 engines in 88 years if it had a Petter at some stage.!

I do have a record of the Ford 6 cylinder but I was under the impression that this engine replaced the Lister FR3M that was subsequently refitted into IONA. I am not sure where the PD4 fits into all of this but the grills on the cabinside certainly fit in with a large air cooled engine - and a PD4 combined with WHITE HEATHER would make for quite an impressive tug.

 

My large Northwich motor has a historically inappropriate engine (1995 Perkins 3HD46 mk2 with PRM160 gearbox all fitted in 1997) but like your Toyota it starts well, runs well, sounds O.K., provides more than adequate power even when the boat is loaded, parts are cheap and readily available - so why change it, especially if it upsets the 'enthusiasts' :captain:

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What I forgot to mention was of course that the engine was moved to the rear underdeck during Jason's ownership/fitout. Some years before that the bare hull was lying at Norwood Top Lock and I tried to buy it from the owner without success, the engine wasn't present but I was told there was one for it. I assume this was the one that went into Iona. So the FR3 would have been the last engine in the original engine room. Positioning the  smaller ford engine under the rear deck made most of the boats usable accommodation.

 

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1 hour ago, Mike Adams said:

What I forgot to mention was of course that the engine was moved to the rear underdeck during Jason's ownership/fitout. Some years before that the bare hull was lying at Norwood Top Lock and I tried to buy it from the owner without success, the engine wasn't present but I was told there was one for it. I assume this was the one that went into Iona. So the FR3 would have been the last engine in the original engine room. Positioning the  smaller ford engine under the rear deck made most of the boats usable accommodation.

 

And presumably explains why the Dorman led to excessive draught. Placed in the middle of the boat it would have been fine.

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