Tony Brooks Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just wondering as this is a dry sump system (I think) why the filter was not fitted between the scavenge pump and oil reservoir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: Just wondering as this is a dry sump system (I think) why the filter was not fitted between the scavenge pump and oil reservoir? I believe he stated earlier that this was a standard wet sump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 09/03/2020 at 15:17, monkeyhanger said: It's in place of the strainer in the sump. I use a filter which is a similar size to the strainer, mounted on a purpose made fitting. If its in the sump, then presumably you have to access it through the crankcase side covers. How easy is it to remove the used filter element without risking dropping crud into the suction pipe? Any photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyhanger Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 2 hours ago, David Mack said: If its in the sump, then presumably you have to access it through the crankcase side covers. How easy is it to remove the used filter element without risking dropping crud into the suction pipe? Any photos? It is accessed through the side doors. The paper filter is attached to a brass device which clamps it at both ends. This, in turn is friction fitted ( a close machining job with an internal rubber o ring) into a fitting on the end of the oil pickup pipe. To change the filter, I pull the old filter and its assembly off the pickup pipe, then dismantle it and replace the filter in a clean place (usually a pile of newspapers on the engine room floor). Once the sump is emptied and wiped clean, replacement of the filter is a simple "push-in" job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptedOut Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, monkeyhanger said: I can only say that I start my cruising season with clean oil and a fresh filter. Having worked out my cruising route, I do an oil and filter change at about the half way point, or somewhere approaching 250 hours. I also have a pressure gauge mounted on the pigeon box, so I can keep an eye on that. Seems to have worked OK so far, but I'm always willing to listen to people more knowledgeable than myself. I probably think and worry too much. Will probably fit a repeater gauge on the pigeon box as the engine room is visited infrequently on long river runs. Thinking about the way construction site pumps are used and abused sometimes on a 24/7 basis I definitely worry too much! Edited March 12, 2020 by OptedOut correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptedOut Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: Just wondering as this is a dry sump system (I think) why the filter was not fitted between the scavenge pump and oil reservoir? If it was a dry (or wet) sump the strainer is to protect the oil pump and should be fitted prior to the scavenge pump suction. Edited March 12, 2020 by OptedOut added info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, OptedOut said: If it was a dry (or wet) sump the strainer is to protect the oil pump and should be fitted prior to the scavenge pump suction. I simply do not understand that logic. The strainer should protect the scavange pump and the filter take out the suspended matter just like in a wet sump system. But as its a wet sump system the method employed is the only way unless a bypass filter system is employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptedOut Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: I simply do not understand that logic. The strainer should protect the scavange pump and the filter take out the suspended matter just like in a wet sump system. But as its a wet sump system the method employed is the only way unless a bypass filter system is employed. My logic only applies to to the 'strainer' position'. Were particulate filters ever fitted between the scavenge pump and the oil tank 'back in the day' Edited March 12, 2020 by OptedOut Correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, OptedOut said: My logic only applies to to the 'strainer' position'. Were particulate filters ever fitted between the scavenge pump and the oil tank 'back in the day' There is a gauze strainer (part 21) at the inlet of the remote oil tank on the marine JPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptedOut Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 14 hours ago, David Mack said: There is a gauze strainer (part 21) at the inlet of the remote oil tank on the marine JPs. Is the pipe (31) the return from the scavenge pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, OptedOut said: Is the pipe (31) the return from the scavenge pump? The top pipe 30 is the return from the pump. There’s a horizontal “shelf” in the tank with the 2 gauze filters in it. Part 31 is the overflow pipe if the filters are blocked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptedOut Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, frangar said: The top pipe 30 is the return from the pump. There’s a horizontal “shelf” in the tank with the 2 gauze filters in it. Part 31 is the overflow pipe if the filters are blocked Thanks. Where does pipe 31 discharge any overflow, does it act as a strainer bypass back to the engine sump? Edited March 13, 2020 by OptedOut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptedOut Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 Whilst doing some lateral thinking it struck me that our VW car oil change service warning pops up at a time dictated by the ECU, this warning is not at set miles but a combination of other factors, how hard/long the engine has been loaded being one factor,. Modern car oil in use Considering that our Lister HA2 (industrial) oil change hours are based on continuous full load running could the hours be extended for narrowboat use at considerably less demanding power outputs. API-CC oil in use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 13/03/2020 at 14:07, OptedOut said: Thanks. Where does pipe 31 discharge any overflow, does it act as a strainer bypass back to the engine sump? The pipe just goes through the “shelf” inside the tank. If the gauze gets blocked the oil level reaches the top of the pipe which acts like an overflow....and lets the oil to the bottom section of the tank so the engine isn’t starved of oil. 9 hours ago, OptedOut said: Whilst doing some lateral thinking it struck me that our VW car oil change service warning pops up at a time dictated by the ECU, this warning is not at set miles but a combination of other factors, how hard/long the engine has been loaded being one factor,. Modern car oil in use Considering that our Lister HA2 (industrial) oil change hours are based on continuous full load running could the hours be extended for narrowboat use at considerably less demanding power outputs. API-CC oil in use? Given the cost of oil vs the cost of engine rebuilds why would you want to extend the oil change...even with a JP dry sump that takes 7 gallons of oil I stick to the book for oil changes...cheaper in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 11 hours ago, OptedOut said: Considering that our Lister HA2 (industrial) oil change hours are based on continuous full load running could the hours be extended for narrowboat use at considerably less demanding power outputs. API-CC oil in use? Engines like to be worked . It could be argued that under utilisation requires more frequent oil changes. I stick to the 100 hrs recommended for my engine and would change the oil annually if that was at lower hours (although many people do not). As already indicated , oil is cheaper than metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptedOut Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 6 hours ago, frangar said: The pipe just goes through the “shelf” inside the tank. If the gauze gets blocked the oil level reaches the top of the pipe which acts like an overflow....and lets the oil to the bottom section of the tank so the engine isn’t starved of oil. Given the cost of oil vs the cost of engine rebuilds why would you want to extend the oil change...even with a JP dry sump that takes 7 gallons of oil I stick to the book for oil changes...cheaper in the long run. Thanks for clarifying pipe 31. When we were more active we just changed the oil twice a year based very roughly on logged travel times. As we've now matured into retired fine weather boaters we generally do it annually. We do our own oil/filter changes so costs are insignificant when compared to other outgoings. Original question was just out of the box thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptedOut Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 5 hours ago, MartynG said: Engines like to be worked . It could be argued that under utilisation requires more frequent oil changes. I stick to the 100 hrs recommended for my engine and would change the oil annually if that was at lower hours (although many people do not). As already indicated , oil is cheaper than metal. Agree, there are many problems associated with low load/extended idling etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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