RIVER TRENT

[howardang]

5 hours ago, mach1 said:

THANKS ALAN  

 but why do i need an anchor  its a 23ft cruiser  dont i just moor up ( puzzeled doug)  are we to old for this ?

May I respectfully suggest that you need to increase your boating knowledge substantially,  and although you are getting some good advice here, a forum like this is not really the place to gain some of that knowledge. As a start, I would say that you would get a better grounding in boatmanship by taking a one to one course with an organisation that can give teach you about being safe on rivers as well as canals. I would also say that joining a boat club may be helful and you may also get advice from fellow members. 

 

Enjoy your boat but please be safe and get some training.

 

 

Howard

Edited August 26, 2019 by howardang

[Momac]

 

Does your boat have a BSS certificate including the Jerry cans ? It doesn't seem safe to be carrying so much fuel in cans.

How are you going to refuel? If you start refuelling from Jerry cans at a busy mooring do expect some opposition from adjacent boaters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mach1]

thanks guys i will get a new anchor  before we go on the trent  , will my sas type be ok on the witham /fosdyke  till then 

 

 thanks    

 doug & sandra

[Alan de Enfield]

5 hours ago, mach1 said:

thanks guys i will get a new anchor  before we go on the trent  , will my sas type be ok on the witham /fosdyke  till then 

 

 thanks    

 doug & sandra

It will be (possibly) better than nothing, but don't let it give you false confidence that you have an 'anchor'.

Many 100's of inland waterways boats don't have an anchor, and never need one.

 

The problem comes when you don't have one and you need one.

 

As the saying goes "better to have and not to need, than need and not to have"

[mach1]

sounds like i should get one asap  , does it have to have a chain or will a rope do ??????????

[nicknorman]

24 minutes ago, mach1 said:

sounds like i should get one asap  , does it have to have a chain or will a rope do ??????????

It has to have a chain. The purpose of the chain is to make the pull from the boat horizontal at the anchor end. The weight of the chain creates sufficient “sag” to achieve this. Without chain, the pull from the boat will just lift the anchor.

 

It doesn’t have to be chain all the way though, a sufficient length of chain followed by rope is what most people have. “Sufficient” being determined by the size/weight of boat and the weight of the chain.

Edited August 27, 2019 by nicknorman

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, mach1 said:

sounds like i should get one asap  , does it have to have a chain or will a rope do ??????????

Ideally you should have 100% chain to (about) 4x the max depth you will encounter.

You can use 100% rope but you then need 10X the depth

You can use 50/50 and then need 7x the depth,

 

You really need 'some' chain to hold the pull in the correct plane.

 

For where you are going (the Trent) 60 foot of 8mm (anchor) chain and 30-40 foot of rope will do.

[mach1]

THANKS NICK ( SO MUCH TO LEARN )

[nicknorman]

6 hours ago, mach1 said:

thanks guys i will get a new anchor  before we go on the trent  , will my sas type be ok on the witham /fosdyke  till then 

 

 thanks    

 doug & sandra

Fossdyke is a canal, so you don’t really need an anchor. Witham is a river so you do. But I suppose if you never venture out when there is significant current then you probably don’t. Tidal Trent is a different thing - definitely need a good anchor.

[mach1]

SORRY TO BE A PAIN 

 

  our boart is a 23ft  cruiser  with a 20hp outboard   what kg anchor should i  get ?

[magictime]

Just for a bit of balance here:

 

Yes, you want an appropriate anchor, chart(s) and lifejackets for the reasons explained above. Yes, you want to take advice from the lock keepers about tide times and conditions (some tides are gentler than others!) 

 

BUT - for years we've had this picture in our heads of a hair-raising ride along a fast-flowing, choppy river, full of hidden sandbanks etc. at random locations below the surface, and navigable only with the aid of mysterious 'charts' intelligible only to the saltiest of sea-dogs. Well, we've just come up the Trent from Keady Lock to Cromwell Lock, with an overnight stop at Torksey, and it wasn't like that at all. We were moving at a normal speed, on calm water, and 99% of the time the charts were simply reinforcing the general rule that you should go round the outside of bends rather than cutting corners. 

 

So as I say, yes, be prepared, be equipped, be cautious about the conditions you travel in, but don't allow yourself to be completely intimidated by worst-case scenarios.

[mach1]

THANKS .. thats   great ,  

 

 we thought we had everything  lifejackets/ depth  meter/charts with red  lines /advise from the lock keepers/ new engine/  we wont  go till next year 

and take someone  thats been on the water for years 

 

thanks for the reasurance 

 

doug & sandra 

[Momac]

42 minutes ago, mach1 said:

we wont  go till next year 

 

As a first experience ,which you might do this year  why not take the relatively modest trip out of Torksey to Dunham bridge (where there is a pontoon) and back to Torksey.

Weekdays  usually quiet  - less traffic on the river.

[Scholar Gypsy]

1 hour ago, magictime said:

Just for a bit of balance here:

 

Yes, you want an appropriate anchor, chart(s) and lifejackets for the reasons explained above. Yes, you want to take advice from the lock keepers about tide times and conditions (some tides are gentler than others!) 

 

BUT - for years we've had this picture in our heads of a hair-raising ride along a fast-flowing, choppy river, full of hidden sandbanks etc. at random locations below the surface, and navigable only with the aid of mysterious 'charts' intelligible only to the saltiest of sea-dogs. Well, we've just come up the Trent from Keady Lock to Cromwell Lock, with an overnight stop at Torksey, and it wasn't like that at all. We were moving at a normal speed, on calm water, and 99% of the time the charts were simply reinforcing the general rule that you should go round the outside of bends rather than cutting corners. 

 

So as I say, yes, be prepared, be equipped, be cautious about the conditions you travel in, but don't allow yourself to be completely intimidated by worst-case scenarios.

All good points. Prepare for the worst and you will be pleasantly surprised...

There are lots of videos on youtube that give you a good idea of what the cruise will be like. Some in very strong winds which are a bit alarming ...

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, magictime said:

Just for a bit of balance here:

 

Yes, you want an appropriate anchor, chart(s) and lifejackets for the reasons explained above. Yes, you want to take advice from the lock keepers about tide times and conditions (some tides are gentler than others!) 

 

BUT - for years we've had this picture in our heads of a hair-raising ride along a fast-flowing, choppy river, full of hidden sandbanks etc. at random locations below the surface, and navigable only with the aid of mysterious 'charts' intelligible only to the saltiest of sea-dogs. Well, we've just come up the Trent from Keady Lock to Cromwell Lock, with an overnight stop at Torksey, and it wasn't like that at all. We were moving at a normal speed, on calm water, and 99% of the time the charts were simply reinforcing the general rule that you should go round the outside of bends rather than cutting corners. 

 

So as I say, yes, be prepared, be equipped, be cautious about the conditions you travel in, but don't allow yourself to be completely intimidated by worst-case scenarios.

Agreed it is mostly easy. Going up with the flood is better than going down with the ebb because if you happen to run aground with the former, you float off fairly quickly. With the latter you can get stuck until the next tide, perhaps with the boat at a dangerous angle.

 

99% of the time it is easy. But just occasionally things conspire against you, spring tides, strong winds, lots of fresh, and then a breakdown (which could be something as daft and unpredictable as a major obstruction of the propellor). And instantly, a pleasant relaxing journey can change into a major crisis, for which it is better to be prepared.

 

I have never had a significant car accident but I still always wear a seatbelt in the car, and not just because it is a legal requirement.

 

So as you say, no need to be intimidated, just prepared.

1 hour ago, mach1 said:

SORRY TO BE A PAIN 

 

  our boart is a 23ft  cruiser  with a 20hp outboard   what kg anchor should i  get ?

[mrsmelly]

9 hours ago, mach1 said:

thanks guys i will get a new anchor  before we go on the trent  , will my sas type be ok on the witham /fosdyke  till then 

 

 thanks    

 doug & sandra

Doug whilst you are at it do a quick vhf radio course ( a doddle ) and get a radio for the boat. Whilst its true to say there is little heavy traffic on the Trent anymore it is a great safety tool. A mobile phone is as much use as a chocolate fireguard if you break down and the boat bearing down on you doesnt have your mobile number or you his!! Also handy when going through Notingham and if you pop onto the Thames for instance. Also whilst talking about it ensure you have the lockies numbers on all the Trent locks in your contacts list on the phone.

[mach1]

IT HAS A  VHF  RADIO  AND WE HAVE  ALL THE LOCKEEPERS NO  ,

 

 I THINK WE SHOULD  DO A  COURSE , ITS ALL I BIT OF A WORRY 

 

 THANKS 

 DUG & SANDRA

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, mach1 said:

IT HAS A  VHF  RADIO  AND WE HAVE  ALL THE LOCKEEPERS NO  ,

 

 I THINK WE SHOULD  DO A  COURSE , ITS ALL I BIT OF A WORRY 

 

 THANKS 

 DUG & SANDRA

No, it shouldn’t be a worry, just a learning experience. Any day which, by the end of it, you know something or have some skill that you didn’t have at the beginning, is a day well spent. Conversely ...

[Momac]

Do you have a vhf operators certificate and a ships radio license?

http://completeguide.rnli.org/vhf-radios.html

 

The vhf is the main means of contact on the Trent . We probably use the vhf more than some coastal boats .

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 hours ago, mach1 said:

SORRY TO BE A PAIN 

 

  our boart is a 23ft  cruiser  with a 20hp outboard   what kg anchor should i  get ?

Read Post #17

It tells you which make of anchor to get

it Tells you which size (weight) to get

It tells you how much chain to get

It tells you how much rope to get

 

With all due respect to Nicks suggestion to get a Danforth anchor, I think after 30 years experience on the Trent, and the last 9 years actually having a mooring on the Trent I have a little more local knowledge that he has.

 

I attached the performance details of several brands of anchor in an earlier post. (post #20)

The Danforth was the lowest rating of them all gaining 29 out of 70 mainly due to its inability to set quickly and hold without dragging - both problems for a boat being carried by the tide / current towards a hazard.

 

Now - if you want to know how to fly a helicopter - Nick's your man.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[mach1]

THANKS GUYS 

[nicknorman]

58 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Read Post #17

It tells you which make of anchor to get

it Tells you which size (weight) to get

It tells you how much chain to get

It tells you how much rope to get

 

With all due respect to Nicks suggestion to get a Danforth anchor, I think after 30 years experience on the Trent, and the last 9 years actually having a mooring on the Trent I have a little more local knowledge that he has.

 

I attached the performance details of several brands of anchor in an earlier post. (post #20)

The Danforth was the lowest rating of them all gaining 29 out of 70 mainly due to its inability to set quickly and hold without dragging - both problems for a boat being carried by the tide / current towards a hazard.

 

Now - if you want to know how to fly a helicopter - Nick's your man.

I agree that a danforth isn’t the best in many ways, but one way it is good is that it takes up very little space. The whole thing is a compromise, and on a small boat storage space has to carry a lot of significance.

 

The only other point I’ll mention is that most anchor tests relate to anchoring on the sea - ie with big waves. The waves make the boat pitch and thus repeatedly pull and relax the line to the anchor. On the tidal Trent there is unlikely to be the same pitching (and hence tugging) much more a case of a steady pull. I am therefore not convinced that the results of sea going anchor tests are transferable to a river.

[doratheexplorer]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I agree that a danforth isn’t the best in many ways, but one way it is good is that it takes up very little space. The whole thing is a compromise, and on a small boat storage space has to carry a lot of significance.

 

The only other point I’ll mention is that most anchor tests relate to anchoring on the sea - ie with big waves. The waves make the boat pitch and thus repeatedly pull and relax the line to the anchor. On the tidal Trent there is unlikely to be the same pitching (and hence tugging) much more a case of a steady pull. I am therefore not convinced that the results of sea going anchor tests are transferable to a river.

Does anyone know if a danforth anchor on a narrowboat, on a river, with the correct length of chain, has ever failed to hold the boat when needed?

[howardang]

16 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Does anyone know if a danforth anchor on a narrowboat, on a river, with the correct length of chain, has ever failed to hold the boat when needed?

I very much suspect that the answer to your question is no!

In any case, in my view there is not much similarity between the theoretical capabilities of an anchor type and the practical ability of a crew to safely deploy it, and as I have said before I would be most pleasantly surprised if the majority of inland boaters would be successful in being quick enough to use an anchor to save themselves and their boat, especially in a weir incident. With all due respect to Alan I think he is swayed by his offshore experiences which may be relevant to lumpy water situations but are outwith the boating knowledge of the large majority of inland boaters., and it may well be only confusing and intimidating to them to quote so much information at them. 

 

Howard

[Keeping Up]

36 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I agree that a danforth isn’t the best in many ways, but one way it is good is that it takes up very little space. The whole thing is a compromise, and on a small boat storage space has to carry a lot of significance.

 

The only other point I’ll mention is that most anchor tests relate to anchoring on the sea - ie with big waves. The waves make the boat pitch and thus repeatedly pull and relax the line to the anchor. On the tidal Trent there is unlikely to be the same pitching (and hence tugging) much more a case of a steady pull. I am therefore not convinced that the results of sea going anchor tests are transferable to a river.

Equally most tables that give the recommended size for an anchor do not apply to narrow boats. They may give the correct size for a cruiser such as that of the OP but they typically assume that a 70ft boat is a 5 or 6 deck luxury yacht of several hundred tons and therefore recommend a much larger than is needed or is practicable.