NiFe Batteries

[Captain Fizz]

Does anyone have experience of using the above?

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Captain Fizz said:

Does anyone have experience of using the above?

 

OldGoat here has them on his boat.

 

Key points about them are they are bigger than LA batts AH for AH, need charging at a slightly higher voltage that LA and can be kept part-charged with no ill effects. Oh and they make lithiums look cheap!

 

There is a thread from 2015 discussing them I found. I also started a thread on them about three years ago but I can't find it. Try this one:

 

 

[Flyboy]

No personal experience but interesting reading.   https://www.bimblesolar.com/batteries/nifebatteries

[ditchcrawler]

I have not had anything to do with them for about 40 years, but from what I remember they had different charging requirements, we used them to power our fire alarm systems

 

[OldGoat]

What an open invitation to let me ramble on about my favourite batteries.....

- They are huge

- heavy

- expensive new

- wide voltage swings that may upset some equipment (I've never had any problems - except with my ebersplutter, thougfh that may be due to cabling...)

+ Last "for ever", I fitted mine in 1990 and they were s/h then, but still expensive

+ because they are / were for industrial use, they have large  electrolite capacity which means you don't have to top them up often (IIRC about 4 years ago for my set...)

 

My use is for leisure and is  a 24v system.

I have some blub somewhere - I'll see if I can put a copy on here if there's some interest.

[Detling]

16 volt charging may cause a problem and equalizing definitely high 

[OldGoat]

23 minutes ago, Detling said:

16 volt charging may cause a problem and equalizing definitely high 

Equilizing is not a function required for NiFe batteries, but the point of hogh voltage at the end of charge could be a problem (That's one of the reasons why I went for a 24v system  - but using 19 cells rather than 20.

Methinks space will be a problem unless you are building a new boat. My battery pack (50 cells of mixed capacity) fills the front of my engine compartment near then end of the swims - say 6ft x 2ft and weighs about a ton....

 

Folks in the USA love these batteries - out in the sticks with a mixed solar / wind source system - sme blurb here -

https://www.beutilityfree.com/index.php/products/nickel-iron-batteries

 

I suspect all the above will turn the OP off...

[MtB]

3 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Equilizing is not a function required for NiFe batteries

 

The Bimble site says otherwise, in fact they actually sell a charger specifically for the purpose.

 

Quite a bit on the Bimble site that doesn't quite ring true. I have no confidence in their technical knowledge, despite lot of peeps here thinking they know their stuff. I fact I think they are 'salesy' type people through and through with no thorough understanding of batteries and electricity. 

 

Their 16v NiFe equalising charger looks dead handy for equalising Trojans rthough.

 

 

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The Bimble site says otherwise, in fact they actually sell a charger specifically for the purpose.

 

Quite a bit on the Bimble site that doesn't quite ring true. I have no confidence in their technical knowledge, despite lot of peeps here thinking they know their stuff. I fact I think they are 'salesy' type people through and through with no thorough understanding of batteries and electricity. 

 

Their 16v NiFe equalising charger looks dead handy for equalising Trojans rthough.

 

 

Well, they would.... mebe because they think they're similar to lead acid batteries - but the chemistry is different. They're 'local' to my home base - so I've visited them several times.

Bimble are an enthusiastic bunch and certainly have an eye for sourcing their products....

 

I looked through what documentation I have which is very old - published before the concept of equalisation was born, perhaps. I could find no mention of the technique. I could put copies on here - but I don't know how.

 

FWIW, I use a normal Sterling 24v battery charger on the mooring and an alternator controller on the move. CS said - you're a ** fool and there was something similar (but more polite) from the alternator control outfit. Both devices just work - even though the setup is for LA batteries  - so I'm content to continue even if wrong!

 

The OP has probably gone away, either because he wanted a straight answer or because he hasn't got room for the extra ballast.  

 

 

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The Bimble site says otherwise, in fact they actually sell a charger specifically for the purpose.

 

Quite a bit on the Bimble site that doesn't quite ring true. I have no confidence in their technical knowledge, despite lot of peeps here thinking they know their stuff. I fact I think they are 'salesy' type people through and through with no thorough understanding of batteries and electricity. 

 

Their 16v NiFe equalising charger looks dead handy for equalising Trojans rthough.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Well, they would.... mebe because they think they're similar to lead acid batteries - but the chemistry is different. They're 'local' to my home base - so I've visited them several times.

Bimble are an enthusiastic bunch and certainly have an eye for sourcing their products....

 

I looked through what documentation I have which is very old - published before the concept of equalisation was born, perhaps. I could find no mention of the technique. I could put copies on here - but I don't know how.

 

FWIW, I use a normal Sterling 24v battery charger on the mooring and an alternator controller on the move. CS said - you're a ** fool and there was something similar (but more polite) from the alternator control outfit. Both devices just work - even though the setup is for LA batteries  - so I'm content to continue even if wrong!

 

The OP has probably gone away, either because he wanted a straight answer or because he hasn't got room for the extra ballast.  

 

 

 

Equalization charging is undertaken for two purposes.

 

1. To equalise the charge state of all the cells, which differ over a period of time Not needed for NiFe as they tolerate over charging without ill effect.

 

2. To convert the lead sulphate on the negative plates back into sulphuric acid in lead acid batteries. Again Not needed on NiFe batteries due to them not using lead or sulphuric acid. 

[OldGoat]

13 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

 

Equalization charging is undertaken for two purposes.

 

1. To equalise the charge state of all the cells, which differ over a period of time Not needed for NiFe as they tolerate over charging without ill effect.

 

2. To convert the lead sulphate on the negative plates back into sulphuric acid in lead acid batteries. Again Not needed on NiFe batteries due to them not using lead or sulphuric acid. 

Vindicated! - I knew I wasn't  talkin bull..

 

Chemistry was my best subject at school - but it never covered anything as inteesting as batteries....

[system 4-50]

I got the idea from somewhere that they were slow to take up charge, is that true?

[OldGoat]

2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I got the idea from somewhere that they were slow to take up charge, is that true?

I've no idea - not ever had anything else. 

The internal resistance is higher than LA, so that the charge voltage rises, but the 'standard' LA charger and alternator controller seem to work OK

 

Here's a link to an outfit selling them in the US with lots of documentation -

www.beutilityfree.com

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by OldGoat