A classical disaster

[JohnOnTheWey]

I don't buy the rag this report comes from, but I clocked this story in the local pub's copy:-

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253597.ece

 

Sent shivers down my spine. As I said, this very nearly happened to me years ago and there are occasions when I recall the incident and I can feel the sweat on my brow.

 

JOTW

 

ps. can't quite understand why the boat was a write-off. Think I'll write to the Times and ask if they made that bit up.

[howardang]

I don't buy the rag this report comes from, but I clocked this story in the local pub's copy:-

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253597.ece

 

Sent shivers down my spine. As I said, this very nearly happened to me years ago and there are occasions when I recall the incident and I can feel the sweat on my brow.

 

JOTW

 

ps. can't quite understand why the boat was a write-off. Think I'll write to the Times and ask if they made that bit up.

Yes, a frightening incident, luckily it seems without injury. Am I imagining it or is this sort of accident becoming more common?

 

As far as writing the boat off is concerned, I suspect that if the boat has completely sunk in the lock the cost of a total refit might be uneconomical with an older boat - i.e a constructive total loss situation.

 

Howard Anguish

[Chris J W]

That'd be the one mentioned here K&A Stoppage Notice, then. Yeah, I'd be surprised if it was written off, too.

 

Sorry to hear about yours 35 years ago.

[Dr Bradley]

I too came close to this about 10 years ago - I understand the damp brow John.

[saltysplash]

I don't buy the rag this report comes from, but I clocked this story in the local pub's copy:-

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253597.ece

 

Sent shivers down my spine. As I said, this very nearly happened to me years ago and there are occasions when I recall the incident and I can feel the sweat on my brow.

 

JOTW

 

ps. can't quite understand why the boat was a write-off. Think I'll write to the Times and ask if they made that bit up.

 

Is that an alvechurch boat or a guildford boathouse one? the chap stood in the lock looks like one of those lego men.

 

I dont think its getting more common, its just towpath telegraph getting faster with technology and maybe the news desk not having a great deal on that day. They also scan organisations news desks for anything which might fill space such as the MCA website and fings like that.

 

Very nearly happend to me a couple of years back although it wasnt the cill or the gates, it was that little lip where the hull meets the swim at the stern and the rubbing band at the bow.

going downhill one of the locks towards brentford, my mate was recovering from a brain tumour and was still a little slow with his reactions but was managing fine, I was at the helm and as i descended the boat as is its want occaisionlly drifts across the lock. Bow one side, stern the other. so diagonal across the lock. the Lip at the stern caught on some brickwork at the same time as the rubbing band...(i assume it was the band me being 62' away) caught on brickwork at the bow.

She started to list slowly as the lock emptied and suddenly realising what was happening i gave it full wellie in forward with the tiller away from the snagged side and was sceaming at me mate to drop the paddles. He bless him, turned slowly to look at me and cupped a hand to his ear. The poor sod hadnt a clue what was happening. I was now listing at the point of almost no return and was about to decamp when she suddenly dropped off the brickwork at the stern with a scraping clang and settled back down. I sat on the seat and sparked up. Gary, ambled over and asked 'what are you shouting about?' lol

We had been boating together on our various cruisers, NB's and barges for nearly 30 yrs and ive never come that close before, 1 moments lack of concentration. Sadly my mate is no longer here but like john that moment still is and still brings on the shudders

[Semitrad]

I don't buy the rag this report comes from, but I clocked this story in the local pub's copy:-

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253597.ece

 

Sent shivers down my spine. As I said, this very nearly happened to me years ago and there are occasions when I recall the incident and I can feel the sweat on my brow.

 

JOTW

 

I always try to learn from other peoples experiences, could you elaborate on your incident please? In particular how you got into that situation, how you managed to recover from it and the lessons learnt.

[StephenA]

It happened to us years ago in Kings Lock at Middlewich. And what did the crew of the other boat that was waiting to come through the lock do? They went to get their cameras.

 

Luckily we dropped the bottom paddles and with a little top up we floated free.

 

 

Nowhere near as scary as when the stern button fender got caught underneath the steel guard plates on the bottom gates in Debdale lock ... water almost made it to the exhaust before the weakest link in the chain snapped. We've now got weakened links in all our fender chains.

[stuart]

When out with friends on the boat, i try and give them an emergency signal so that if a problem occurs in a lock, theres no doubt what to do (generally CLOSE the paddles!) - I normally suggest 3 blasts on the boat horn - they will never hear you if you shout over the water and engine noise, when your in a hole.

[Neildudman]

Alvechurch boat from Hilperton.

I feel sorry for the families planning to go on it for the next 10 weeks of so till they buy a replacement.

[Sir Nibble]

When out with friends on the boat, i try and give them an emergency signal so that if a problem occurs in a lock, theres no doubt what to do (generally CLOSE the paddles!) - I normally suggest 3 blasts on the boat horn - they will never hear you if you shout over the water and engine noise, when your in a hole.

Now THAT is an excellent idea.It's an Alvechurch (wessex narrowboats) boat by the way. Bargain for someone?

[saltysplash]

Now THAT is an excellent idea.It's an Alvechurch (wessex narrowboats) boat by the way. Bargain for someone?

 

 

Yep, hull should be sound as long as theres no buckling,

[Sir Nibble]

Yep, hull should be sound as long as theres no buckling,

Machinery most likely stayed dry too.

[saltysplash]

Machinery most likely stayed dry too.

 

What do ya recon then, Auction or cut up for rebuild,

 

Will they sell on their own website?

[Sir Nibble]

Insurance write off most likely, so auction I would suspect. Give the hire base at Hilperton a call, bet you won't be the first enquiry they've had.

[saltysplash]

Insurance write off most likely, so auction I would suspect. Give the hire base at Hilperton a call, bet you won't be the first enquiry they've had.

 

shipmate, if i was at all handy in fitting out and still single i would be very tempted, Swimbo however has made me place a deposit on a rather smashing boat ready for our needs. I seem to be ok with touch up jobs and keeping up with maintainance, but my woodworking skills stop at the point of ...measuring up...marking up....sawing, then thinking...yeah, thats looks about right if i give it a few taps with the mallet to fit. wheres me drink gone?

[John Orentas]

That boat is sat on the sill of the lock and so totally in the wrong place.

 

Every time I write on here that everyone should, without exception position the boat at the 'downhill' end of the lock, I get a thousand people telling me I don't know what I am talking about.

[saltysplash]

That boat is sat on the sill of the lock and so totally in the wrong place.

 

Every time I write on here that everyone should, without exception position the boat at the 'downhill' end of the lock, I get a thousand people telling me I don't know what I am talking about.

 

Agreed john, we all know what we should do, hirers (hopefully) are told to avoid the cill at all costs, but thats what happens in a moments lack of concentration.

All drivers shouldve passed a driving test, but we all see the results on our roads of lack of concentration.

Theres no excuse, just....'there but for the grace of god'

[mayalld]

That boat is sat on the sill of the lock and so totally in the wrong place.

 

Every time I write on here that everyone should, without exception position the boat at the 'downhill' end of the lock, I get a thousand people telling me I don't know what I am talking about.

 

Yes, indeed.

 

Boats descending locks should always be at the downhill end of the lock.

 

Quite why you think that any number of pictures of boats on cills prove that it is also the case when going uphill defeats me.

[David Schweizer]

I don't buy the rag this report comes from, but I clocked this story in the local pub's copy:-

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253597.ece

 

Sent shivers down my spine. As I said, this very nearly happened to me years ago and there are occasions when I recall the incident and I can feel the sweat on my brow.

 

JOTW

 

ps. can't quite understand why the boat was a write-off. Think I'll write to the Times and ask if they made that bit up.

This event on it's own would be prettyy disasterous, but it is not the first serious incident to befall a hire boat in this particular lock. The lock is very deep having been altered some years ago to remove a second lock when the Widcombe relief road was built, it is quite daunting to an experienced boater let alone a first timer.

 

When I worked at Bradford on Avon Wharf as a volunteer for the K&A Trust, we often helped first time hirers through Bradford lock, in the absence of any proper training from the Local Hire base companies. We also gave advice about Widcombe lock, in the hope that they would negotiate it sucessfully, this help and advice was always gratefully accepted. On several occassions we tried to persuade BW and the Hire Companies to provide a relief Lock Keeper during the summer hire period, the Bath and Bradford on Avon K&A trust branches were also willing to provide volunteers, but all the suggestions were ignored.

 

Unless things have changed very recently, hirers from both Hilperton and Bradford Marinas are not given any supervised experience of a lock when they collect the boat, instead they are shown a video and allowed to play with a model lock before setting off. Perhaps this incident will galvanise both BW and the Hire Companies to provide proper supervision and training, before allowing complete novices loose on the canal.

 

Edited to add: This is not an anti Hirer posting, but it is a criticism of some hire base companies.

Edited August 15, 2007 by David Schweizer

[Sir Nibble]

The lock is very deep having been altered some years ago to remove a second lock when the Widcombe relief road was built, it is quite daunting to an experienced boater let alone a first timer.

Wrong lock mate, this is Bath top lock, not the deep lock.

[blackrose]

ps. can't quite understand why the boat was a write-off. Think I'll write to the Times and ask if they made that bit up.

 

Could it be that because in that position the boat was supported only at the bow and stern ends it "broke its back" (i.e. deformed the sides & baseplate or ripped open welds)? Still if they can stretch a boat I can't see why even major damage like that can't be repaired.

[John Orentas]

Yes, indeed.

 

Boats descending locks should always be at the downhill end of the lock.

 

Quite why you think that any number of pictures of boats on cills prove that it is also the case when going uphill defeats me.

 

 

I would have thought that 'any number' of such pictures might suggest to even you that they have sunk and someone did something wrong.

[wrigglefingers]

This event on it's own would be prettyy disasterous, but it is not the first serious incident to befall a hire boat in this particular lock. The lock is very deep having been altered some years ago to remove a second lock when the Widcombe relief road was built, it is quite daunting to an experienced boater let alone a first timer.

 

When I worked at Bradford on Avon Wharf as a volunteer for the K&A Trust, we often helped first time hirers through Bradford lock, in the absence of any proper training from the Local Hire base companies. We also gave advice about Widcombe lock, in the hope that they would negotiate it sucessfully, this help and advice was always gratefully accepted. On several occassions we tried to persuade BW and the Hire Companies to provide a relief Lock Keeper during the summer hire period, the Bath and Bradford on Avon K&A trust branches were also willing to provide volunteers, but all the suggestions were ignored.

 

Unless things have changed very recently, hirers from both Hilperton and Bradford Marinas are not given any supervised experience of a lock when they collect the boat, instead they are shown a video and allowed to play with a model lock before setting off. Perhaps this incident will galvanise both BW and the Hire Companies to provide proper supervision and training, before allowing complete novices loose on the canal.

 

Edited to add: This is not an anti Hirer posting, but it is a criticism of some hire base companies.

 

I agree with David, the training given to hirers in this area is still inadequate, all of us in this area have helped nervous hirers through Bradford Town lock. Given the spacing between the locks there's a fair chance that anything the hirers have learnt at the hire base has been forgotten by the time they get to the lock - particularly in view of the amount of alcohol that seems to be consumed when setting out. Hilperton hirers seem to be treated very casually - just a video to watch in the shop which is full of distractions. I doubt very much whether it will any difference to the training, this is not the first hired boat to go down in recent memory either.

 

I'm not sure how to make the hiring companies change their policy - perhaps it's more commercially profitable to take the occasional sinking than to lose the labour of somebody stationed at the lock to help hirers through. One thing is pretty certain, though, if you're a hirer and you've sunk a boat in a lock that's your holiday ruined and you probably wouldn't want to go anywhere near a boat for a while. So do you qualify for a refund on account of the hirer's negligence?

 

My own experience includes a few anxious moments at Lower Foxhangers when I lost concentration and discovered the horn wasn't working. Luckily Ellen was watching, paddled down and then gave me a thoroughly deserved shouting at. The Bath coffin is particularly terrifying first time and still gives me the willies; and Ellen won't do it at all after a nasty incident in front of us last year involving a 65'+ narrowboat and a small Dawncraft. The 65'er got slightly hooked on the cill, twisted and somehow, wedged/tangled on the Dawncraft whilst the bow started to dip alarmingly. Both steerers were having a lovely chat together at time and simply lost concentration for a few moments. Without some quick thinking, both boats would have gone down; red faces and apologies all round. Still very easy to do though ........

 

Jill

[saltysplash]

I agree with David, the training given to hirers in this area is still inadequate, all of us in this area have helped nervous hirers through Bradford Town lock. Given the spacing between the locks there's a fair chance that anything the hirers have learnt at the hire base has been forgotten by the time they get to the lock - particularly in view of the amount of alcohol that seems to be consumed when setting out. Hilperton hirers seem to be treated very casually - just a video to watch in the shop which is full of distractions. I doubt very much whether it will any difference to the training, this is not the first hired boat to go down in recent memory either.

 

I'm not sure how to make the hiring companies change their policy - perhaps it's more commercially profitable to take the occasional sinking than to lose the labour of somebody stationed at the lock to help hirers through. One thing is pretty certain, though, if you're a hirer and you've sunk a boat in a lock that's your holiday ruined and you probably wouldn't want to go anywhere near a boat for a while. So do you qualify for a refund on account of the hirer's negligence?

 

My own experience includes a few anxious moments at Lower Foxhangers when I lost concentration and discovered the horn wasn't working. Luckily Ellen was watching, paddled down and then gave me a thoroughly deserved shouting at. The Bath coffin is particularly terrifying first time and still gives me the willies; and Ellen won't do it at all after a nasty incident in front of us last year involving a 65'+ narrowboat and a small Dawncraft. The 65'er got slightly hooked on the cill, twisted and somehow, wedged/tangled on the Dawncraft whilst the bow started to dip alarmingly. Both steerers were having a lovely chat together at time and simply lost concentration for a few moments. Without some quick thinking, both boats would have gone down; red faces and apologies all round. Still very easy to do though ........

 

Jill

 

I was a bit shocked and surprised to read that a reputable firm such as alvechurch would send their boats out with only a video clip and a model toy.

Im not trying to off topic here folks but ...ive only hired from them once and that was back in the early 80's from their 1 base at alvechurch. They gave full instruction on all the boats systems and took us through a lock even though we were experienced hirers. Is this a case of expansion is not always in the best interest?

this is not having a go at hirers, they can hardly be blamed for sitting on the cill if theyve never had the danger pointed out to them, plus, were not just talking about the loss of the boat, which by the sounds of it alvechurch will write of as expenses, but were talking about peoples lives... what if there had been a child in a pushchair on the well deck?

 

 

This stuff is BASICS

Sod the daily engine checks

Edited August 15, 2007 by saltysplash

[mayalld]

I would have thought that 'any number' of such pictures might suggest to even you that they have sunk and someone did something wrong.

 

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

What on earth makes you imagine that pictures of boats that have come to grief DESCENDING a lock prove anything about the correct way to ASCEND a lock?