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Dunno if you've seen the waterside moorings site but there's a residential mooring at the bottom of this list in Horbury for £3500pa for up to 57feet. I don't know Horbury at all or whether there are transport links that you could use but that's a pretty good price for an official residential mooring. You'd pay council tax with it being residential, so band A for the local area, single person discount if you're on your own, call it another £1k. That's your rent and council tax for £375/month. Your bills will be quite high in the colder months for heating (work on up to a couple of hundred) but really quite small in the warmer months. Then there'll be your license fee, insurance and ongoing maintenance costs like engine servicing - much cheaper if you can DIY & it's not rocket science. Try to have a contingency fund of a few thousand and start learning about diesel engine maintenance and troubleshooting, basic 12v electrics, etc. Somebody else already said but I'll repeat, go see some boats to start getting an idea what you can get, definitely go and have a look at the one Jax mentions. Good luck with it all...

Wow ! … 16 replies in only three hours ! … You guys are great … Thankyou … Well there’s definitely a common consensus here … No good as it is then … How tricky / expensive would it be to retro-fit a mult-fuel stove for heating and gas for cooking, along with the associated gas pipework, and a gas oven and hob, (and certification I suppose) to turn it into ‘a proper boat’ ? I met a fella today who’d had his diesel heater removed and replaced with a multi fuel stove … said it cost him around £2500 a few years back but he did already have the hearth in place and the flue hole in his roof … I suppose that’s more expensive now What about gas for cooking ? it’s a 58’ boat with a gas locker at the very front and the galley at the very back! no pipework … maybe a gas locker could be fitted on the stern ? … would adding all that be ridiculously expensive ? cheers Didne xxx

Yes it is overkill the bubble b1c1 is 4kw, I was more curious into the Prity AM build quality if anyone has ever used one. The back boiler is quite high up on my list, going from a narrowboat the rooms heated up easily when the fire was in but with the widebeam having segregated rooms to heat it up without cold spots I'm going to need to run the radiators or UFH and don't want to be running the diesel heater too much as I want to keep running costs down. Even if they can be a hassle sometimes. I added the NRG zone so that just the back boiler is thermosyphon and the rest of the system ie the radiators, UFH, and hot water are pumped when needed (would this still be the case that i wouldnt be possible?), the UFH will be the main heat source any suggestions on what you would change to make it less complicated.

It's feasible but *very* expensive if you're doing it just to get rid of gas for cooking -- you not only need a big inverter and battery bank but also lots of solar, and ideally an inbuilt diesel generator because it's unlikely that solar alone will meet your power needs in winter. Using alternators on a 42hp diesel to provide all the power for this is horribly inefficient (high fuel costs) and means running the engine for long periods (wear and tear, noise). The only way it makes sense is if you're doing all this anyway in an electric/hybrid boat to provide propulsion, in which case gas-free cooking is "free" because you've already got all the infrastructure needed to support it -- in fact it's cheaper because you don't need to install gas. However such a boat is an expensive luxury at the moment (because unlike EVs there's no charging network on the canals, so you absolutely need an onboard generator) for people with deep pockets who are willing to pay for silent cruising and/or lower CO2 emissions and/or having "house-level" 230V AC on board. There are more and more boats like this being built, though the temptation to cut corners to keep cost down is irresistible to many builders... 😞 To give you an idea of what's involved in doing this properly, my boat (when it's completed shortly...) includes: 48V 700Ah LFP battery bank with custom BMS 15kW continuous/25kW peak direct-drive PMAC motor and controller 10kVA inverter/charger 7kVA isolation transformer 2kW solar + MPPT controllers 9kVA cocooned diesel generator 10kW diesel boiler for heating/hot water Domestic induction hob, electric oven, fridge, freezer, washer/drier... Like a Rolls-Royce, if you have to ask what all this costs then you probably can't afford it -- compared to a conventional diesel boat with gas cooking and lower-power electrics (and no generator), my guess is at least £30k extra but I don't have an exact figure. No doubt many people would say this is not worth it, but it should be pointed out that this is smaller than the cost difference for diesel boats between low/midrange and top-end boatbuilders which they usually think is justified... 🙂 "Gas-free" on a diesel boat really doesn't make sense...

I don't mean to be rude, but you need to do far more research about the basics of owning and living on a boat before you worry about the finer points of which boat to buy. There are loads of boaters all wanting to be in and around London, and the place is basically full. They have grown in numbers over the last two or three decades, both encouraged by lifestyle articles in the media, and driven by the increasingly unaffordable cost of renting or buying in the capital. Official permanent moorings are few and expensive, so most London boaters are so-called 'continuous cruisers' engaged in an ongoing process of musical chairs shuffling about just enough to keep CRT's enforcement people off their backs. And many struggle to manage the movement, the need to fill water tanks, empty toilets, buy diesel and gas, generate enough electricity and not knacker the batteries, heat the boat etc., all while doing a 9-5 job in an office. If you are in London 'several days a week' you won't have time to get any distance away in your non-working days. Cambridge and Ely are a fortnight's travel away from London, via the narrow beam Northampton Arm. The Bedford-Milton Keynes Waterway is a pie-in-the-sky project which will take decades to complete if it ever happens. The only alternative route to the Anglian waters is via the sea or on the back of a lorry. Sorry if that sounds brutal, but going starry-eyed and uninformed into boat ownership looks like an effective way of burning through your inheritance and ending up without a lot to show for it.

I had the same experience with New Era. I suspect that because the use of red is so limited that many companies have decided its just not worth stocking it. Then for boaters there is the issue (I think) that HVO should only be used for propulsion, not heating, whilst red should not be used for propulsion. What did the FTL cost relative to diesel and HVO?

I had an electric overblanket when I lived in a house, better than underblanket, might be something similar designed for using when working at a laptop. You won't know how effective the heating is till you get it working fully, I always have premium ovals, logs and kindling delivered every month, £212 pcm. Plus I have Webasto for other cooler days, as now. I think it's a toss up diesel system versus the oil filled rads as cost of installing Webasto with rads will buy a lot of electricity. You will be using batteries with Webasto of course so that will use shorepower.

I think I bought my boat at the right time, it's over twenty years old now, but no way would I exchange it for a plastic, regardless , well almost regardless, of cost. A narrowboat is pretty comfortable if professionally insulated with foam, then lined out, and fitted out with a solid fuel stove, diesel heating, etc. There is room for a decent diesel tank at the stern and a water tank at the bow. It's just a different scenario. Older boats may look a bit dated, but it's likely that you could find something that suits you. The received wisdom is that for a liveaboard you need a bed space permanently made up because sleeping on a sofabed is akin to camping.

Which is why using the propulsion diesel and alternators is a lousy way to generate electrical power, typical efficiency (fuel in to power out) is at best 10% even with big alternators -- worse with standard ones. A diesel generator with LFP batteries/inverter is typically about 25% efficient. So if only half the power comes from solar (reasonable over the year?), the effective efficiency to power an induction hob (>90% efficient) from a generator is about 45% from fuel to pan. In comparison with a gas hob less than half the heat (40%-50%) from the gas gets into the pan, the rest goes into the kitchen, so the efficiency is similar. On top of this you get hot water from the generator, assuming the calorifier has a coil for it, which raises the overall efficiency. And if more than half the power comes from solar, gas loses out even more. Last time I looked the cost per MWh of energy was similar for Calor gas than diesel, which means the diesel generator/induction hob is cheaper to run than Calor/gas hob. But this is only true with a generator/LFP and solar, if you use the propulsion engine and alternators for charging then gas is cheaper and more eco-friendly -- even more so if you use LA batteries.

Hi everyone, I was hoping to hear some opinions and help clarify my currently very muddled head about how best to heat my narrowboat radiators. A bit of background... My boat is 60ft long with a solid fuel stove in the lounge at one end of the boat. This is lovely and heats this room well, however, the heat doesn't transfer enough down to heat the rest of the boat. The boat also has an old Alde comfort 2928 boiler that heats up the water and at some stage must have had heated radiators too. They are no longer on the boat but the pipework remains. As the boat is currently in a state of repair, I have been looking into options as to how best heat the radiators. Since we're going to be continuous cruisers, we were aiming to fit a calorifier that would heat most of our hot water from the engine, then use the Alde as a back up for water heating. So the question is, do we continue to use the Alde boiler and reconnect up all the pipe work for the radiators, or look into other means of doing this..? Obviously the Alde is already there and although have heard many reports about it using a lot of gas, it is already in place so would be the easiest option in a way to set back up and see how it goes... Or do we outlay a much larger cost now for a diesel boiler (webasto or otherwise) which I am aware also can be troublesome for a variety of reasons. Everywhere I read there are swathes of different opinions making it really hard to decipher how best to go. Although not fitted we do have a back boiler for the stove too which is another option. I guess I'm just looking for other opinions and ideas on how best to move forward. Many thanks for reading 🙂

Just remember that a typical 230v 2Kw electric kettle will be drawing around 200 amps from the batteries. A 1Kw "camping kettle" will only be drawing 100 amps, so kinder on your batteries, BUT, it will take twice as long to boil as the 2Kw kettle and you will use, in total, the same amount of 'leccy. Using your engine to generate electricity to heat water is madness. It cost ~£5 per Kw* you can, plug into the 'mains' and its ~30p, even using your gas heater will be far cheaper than your engine. Some clever 'spark' worked it all out taking into account the fuel used, wear & tear, oil, filters, depreciation etc etc etc and it worked out at ~£5.00/Kw. I bet its even higher now that diesel costs have increased so much.

To be honest James, introducing the idea of lithium batteries does complicate the question a bit. But that said, if I were a newbie I would be looking to swap to lithium asap anyway- regardless of anything else I did with the boat. I think given that they'll probably last 15-20 years, they are becoming competitive on price with lead acids. Its kind of a no-brainer really. And as a liveaboard, if I were the OP I would automatically plan on upgrading to at least 1000w of panels- at the least. I have 1400 watts of panels, and in the summer they give enough energy for most cooking, but I choose to use the excess solar power for heating water, which saves running the engine when not cruising. So my personal preference would be to use the solar for hot water, but to still to get a gas cooker installed. And to get lithium batteries regardless. It was said further up the thread, contingency systems are great on a boat. There's a cost involved as well- using the engine to generate the charge for cooking (which you'd have to do in winter) would use a lot of diesel, and add many running hours to the engine- so then you've got more frequent services and more engine wear- which you can avoid by installing gas. But that's only my personal take on it, others will have different priorities etc.

@Tony1 Thank you. Yes, I'm certainly considering GRP boats - I've also read through threads debating the pros and cons of GRP vs Steel, so am aware of the pitfalls of GRP. However, it's difficult to find one with a diesel engine, a 6ft 10in beam, and with decent heating and insulation, as I'm looking to live year round on it, and want access to as much of the network as possible. I'm sure such a boat exists, or could exist if I'm prepared to modify it myself. I found what I think is a GRP narrowboat on ebay earlier. A 32ft Dawncraft Roamer. I never realised such boats existed. It's only £12k, although I can only imagine the issues one would have with it. Was wondering how much it would cost to convert to diesel and bring it up to scratch as a viable live-aboard. Probably way too much.

My anthracite has more than doubled, luckily electric hasn't but only because Dave fixed it at a good commercial rate, which is probably more than 34 pence a kw which you are paying. I don't have Gas but its doubled and its already more expensive than house gas, diesel was more than double at one point, remember plenty use gas and diesel for heating. For people making electric and hot water by running engines it's got to hurt. Now moorings in Sheffield have gone up 43% 4-5k a year? And now licence costs could double? So I suspect plenty of boaters are feeling the pinch

I would be wary of that strategy as you could hit two major problems. High depreciation in early years. Poor quality if the builder is cutting corners, leaving you with higher maintenance eg using an engine which is renowned for high cost spares. With that sort of money you might find a well fitted out second hand boat with bells and whistles. I know Aintree Boats produce one called The Beetle, ask them how much it is as standard. I believe their approach is standardisation of design, which means they can run a production line which is more economical. In the meantime try to identify your requirements, a day boat or summer cruising only might be fine with one type of heating, but for winter warmth, you might want a small solid fuel stove or an oil fired stove or a diesel heating heating system. Gas is out of favour due to running costs. I assume you want it fitted out, rather than a sail away. Apollo Duck will often have examples of good small boats, and you can work backwards from them to your budget. I've had a look, and some smaller second hand boats , including those of a fair age are over £35K, so you won't get anything new, and fitted out for £50K.

Buying a grp boat is a safer bet than a steel one. Basically if it floats, then the hull is usually ok. which may not be the case with a steel hull.For a boat costing around £4000 I wouldn't bother with a survey. With that budget you will probably get an old Norman or Dawncraft, needing some or a lot of work. If you are spending five days a week on board you will need heating, and cooking facilities.A diesel warm air heater is the usual choice on a small cruiser, but if you have it on constantly they do use leccy. Personally I would avoid Z drive as they don't have a very good reputation for reliability, parts are expensive, and specialists few and far between.An outboard is a better bet. Be prepared to fix the common faults you will most likely find on older grp boats.Leaking windows, leaking deck fittings and roof rails, leaking air vents and electrical wiring resembling a rat's nest. Best of luck with your search.

If the batteries are already quite well charged I'm not sure I see the point of running the engine just to heat the water, that has to be a waste of energy par exellence. If my batteries are already charged and I need hot water, I'll boil a kettle on either the stove if it is lit, or a gas ring. To heat it via the calorifier, I'd have to run the engine for about an hour = 1litre of diesel, so at our basin's quite cheap rate that's going to cost me £1.05p.

The subject of cylinder glazing in basic, (No ECU or common rail injection system), marine diesels should be something most canal boat owners are made aware of, along with how much power you need in simple terms, as it might be better to relate that figure to the weight of the boat as most travel lifts and modern cranes can measure the weight, although we should be talking displacement, canal boats are similar in hull shape terms, so it does work. It sure does not for other boats, as form and type of the hull becomes important in terms of how much power is required. Warming an engine correctly before a cold start is far easier than folks think it is, although only professsional or real long term owners who like to think of an engine block as something you keep as long as possible, make an effort to get it right in throttle position terms in particular, (It must not over rev when first started, its better it stalls and you figure out that the go lever needs advancing a bit before trying again), rather than a disposable item. If your engine bay is not heated, then fitting heat pads to the sump and using them to reduce the wear factors and warm up time is easy, just Google Wolverine to see a good range of both 12V and 240/115V AC heat pads. Most small marine diesel engine companies have no interest in an engine lasting as long as possible, so would never mention how to cold start their diesel, with the exception of Volvo and Bukh. Oddly enough we are going backwards in engine wear prevention terms to some extent, as they used to sell decoke kits that were listed in the parts catalogue and the procedure described in the manual, in addition to the use of a summer and winter oil of different viscosities if pre heating is not practical. Back on topic and the Beta vs Canaline question does depend on 2 factors that were not discussed, firstly your budget, and secondly what you are using your boat for and total hours each year. The decision will also effect how much you can sell the boat for, as Beta Marine diesel have a real good reputation. How good the warranty is should also be mentioned. Beta for example fitted a bad batch of alternators, but replaced them without too much grief about why they had failed. Also the wiring loom plug and socket seems to cause issues after around 10 to 20 years according to useage. That seems to be due to the use of untinned wire and a loom connector that does not have Gold plated terminals to prevent long term corrosion. They were the only issues I could find. The weight of the engine is also something of interest, as I was surprised that the Canaline one is heavier. Not sure which parts or sections are involved. Extra weight has a big effect on fuel economy and basic performance. So in some ways it's interesting to compare engines in weight terms. For example the 36hp Bukh is as heavy as a 50hp Bukh, so is a gas guzzler as a result. I was looking at buying a Bukh 36 to replace a BMC 1500D, BUT gave up as it would have been bad news in performance terms due to the extra 50% weight, although they are one real tough engine in terms of surviving abuse like overheating or starting in minus 30C. The need to make changes to the engine beds when changing the type of engine is interesting as it can be fairly expensive in some cases. Beta do make special adapter kits for the engine mounts, but that does not mean the old beds don't need modifying as mine did. Also using the old shaft and flange can result in the need for an adater plate as it did for the BMC to Beta 30. Those extra costs amounted to a bill of 500 quid, so installation costs can add up.

They are really good. I have a slightly more expensive LF Bros 5kw diesel air heater, installed into the engine bay under the cruiser stern deck, sucking in fresh air from outside and blowing it into the back of the boat. I typically use it in autumn and spring to take the chill off the mornings and evenings - mornings when if you lit the stove, you'd be nice and warm by 9am but sweating by midday! It's also useful if you've been away from the boat for a couple of days, it's freezing in the boat and you want heat instantly while you light the stove. Or if you'll only be on the boat for a few hours and don't want to waste coal and time with the stove. I also use it if I'm cooking with the stove not lit on a cool evening, to get rid of the damp and condensation. On the lowest setting (1.4kw output) it draws 800mA/0.8a and uses 90ml of diesel per hour. This is enough to keep the cold off overnight if it's above about 5 degrees C outside, and despite the vent being at the end of the bed it's quiet enough to sleep with. On the highest 5kw setting it's a lot louder and draws 6 amps, but it'll get a freezing 0C boat to 15C in about an hour. On startup and shutdown, it draws 10 amps for around 2 minutes for the glowplug. The kits from Amazon/Ebay etc do need a lot of modification to be safe and BSS compliant though. Bin the fuel filter, all the fuel line apart from the thin nylon stuff from pump to heater, fuel tank, exhaust hose and exhaust silencer. You'll need to buy a metal fuel filter, ISO7840 rubber or copper fuel lines to your main tank, stainless Webasto exhaust hose, a sealed marine silencer with condensate trap and a mounting bracket. All of that cost me around £150. Depending on the boat it's either straightforward or not very straightforward to fit yourself...

A diesel CH system costs the same to run as a drip stove, but doesn't give you a stove inside the boat -- which some would consider an advantage but others would not 😉 The standard ones used in boats (Webasto and Eberspacher) have a bit of a reputation for being unreliable and expensive to maintain, they're really adapted truck cab heaters not intended for 24/7 heating duty, and not keen on being cycled on and off all the time -- thought the newer ones are supposedly better for this and can throttle down instead. They can be noisy. Pressure-jet boilers like the Hurricane (and others which may be better) are more akin to domestic oil-fired boilers and are designed for continuous duty, but they're considerably more expensive and usually a bit big for narrowboats (7kW or above) -- but then they just cycle on and off as required, like in a house. Few boaters have these because of the cost.

Have they? We had our home heating oil delivery this morning and it cost 3p per litre less than last time, when in turn the oil cost 10p a litre less than the time before. So, 82p per litre now, compared with 95p in spring. Petrol and diesel prices have also steadily fallen over the past months. It's not all doom and gloom.