Converting a gas fridge to paraffin

[Chertsey]

OK, I'm not really a hands on technical type person, but I like to tussle with a problem and see if I can come up with a solution. Gas fridges work on the evaporation principle; the gas flame provides a heat source which powers this process. A fridge on Chertsey would be quite useful, but installing gas would be far too complex (even if you could instal a gas fridge within the regs) and 12v would seriously over-tax the single battery and dynamo.

 

Paraffin (kerosene) fridges are made, but all the ones I've seen in my brief search are monster domestic type models, and not sold in the UK anyway.

 

So how hard would it be to take an old(ish), retired gas fridge and convert it to run on paraffin? The simplest way would seem to be to raise it up a bit and but a burner with a wick under it in the appropriate place. Someone suggested elsewhere though that this might soot up too quickly. The next simplest option would seem to be some sort of drip feed burner - could this be made small enough? Would soot still be an issue? Would it need to retain the flue as it would for gas? (Bearing in mind that it would be in the vast well ventilated space of the hold.)How crucial is the getting the hotness of the flame within certain margins? What other hitches and pitfalls am I missing?

[cereal tiller]

hi

the gas/12 volt/240 volt fridges have an electric element which is approx 100 watts,and as you probably know,when running on gas ,the flame is very small.

the paraffin flame could cause some sooting if it is close proximity to the fridge pipe work,a gauze suspended above the flame would facilitate cleaner combustion.

 

what an interesting idea!

[blackrose]

A fridge on Chertsey would be quite useful, but installing gas would be far too complex (even if you could instal a gas fridge within the regs) and 12v would seriously over-tax the single battery and dynamo.

 

Why can't you install a gas fridge within the regs exactly?

 

Perhaps I've misunderstood your post? I installed a gas fridge and my BSS inspector seemed quite happy with it.

Edited May 17, 2011 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

Why can't you install a gas fridge with the regs exactly?

 

Perhaps I've misunderstood your post? I installed a gas fridge and my BSS inspector seemed quite happy with it.

I'll answer from my perspective, having also just acquired an unconverted ex working boat, with no gas installed, (and only minimal electrics).

 

Installation of gas would involve finding some way of creating a compliant gas locker, to house LPG cylinders with all the standard requirements of the BSS being met.

 

Whilst this could theoretically be achieved by converting part of the forward locker area to a gas locker, this would entail a lot of damage to the original structure of the boat, including cutting holes through the hull itself to provide the required vents.

 

I know Sarah wishes to leave Chertsey as original as possible, and we feel the same about Sickle.

 

Installing gas for at least cooking in a modern boat is a no brainer to me, (although as you know the BSS strongly try and persuade you out of gas fridges, whilst no longer banning them), but if you have a historic boat, then compromises have to be made on domestic arrangements, if you are not to destroy some of the history.

 

I for one am interested if this is possible, in the same way as I'm investigating meths powered stoves, or similar.

[rjasmith]

In the "gas free" thread, following your post about making a "paraffin fridge" I suggested it might be an idea to try making some sort of small pot burner to replace the gas jet.

 

That was prompted by a thought that a simple wick burner might cause sooting problems very quickly in the regenerator part of the fridge where the heat is needed.

 

However I'm not so sure about this now because of the work involved in making a scaled down burner based on the type used in Kabola boilers etc. There would also be the need for a suitably set up oil regulator.

 

So back to the wick idea! Maybe if a relatively "high tech" wick burner was used that burns with as blue a flame as possible it could be made to work.

 

We have one of those splendid Aladdin lamps that use a mantle rather than a luminous flame to provide light. To heat the mantle, the wick burner produces a very hot blue flame underneath it and relies on the fairly tall glass chimney to draw enough air in for a blue flame. The Aladdin burner also has a very carefully designed air venting arrangement around the circular wick.

 

Perhaps an old Aladdin lamp burner, less its mantle mount, could be used as the heater and the fridge's existing flue set up to replace the action of the glass chimney.

 

Can I have some of the royalty money when you patent it!

 

Richard

 

Oops - must remember - one "l" and two "d's" in Aladdin

Edited May 17, 2011 by rjasmith

[Gibbo]

I find this this an intriguing idea but know nowt about the subject. Do pots and pans used on parrafin burners "soot up" underneath?

[nb Innisfree]

I find this this an intriguing idea but know nowt about the subject. Do pots and pans used on parrafin burners "soot up" underneath?

 

Yeah Gibbo, you're not in the simple predictable world of electrics now so eat dirt...

[pieter]

Have a look here, it mentions : "Kereosene powered refrigerators need their wicks adjusted weekly and their exhaust flues cleaned regularly because of soot build-up from the relatively dirty fuel. Kerosene refrigerator manufacturers do not make their own wick-type burners. Aladdin® supplies all of their kerosene burners, so replacement parts are readily available. Model number is on the side of the burner or on the knob. Replacement parts are available directly from AladdinLamps.com ". So you might be able to source a burner there.

 

The question then remains is whether the flue of a gas fridge (made for a clean fuel) will be suitable for paraffin.

 

Pieter

[Gibbo]

Yeah Gibbo, you're not in the simple predictable world of electrics now so eat dirt...

 

 

Didn't cave men work out fire?

[RLWP]

I hesitate to mention this, but perhaps you should discuss this with the BSS people to see what requirements they need. As this will be a unique fridge, your probably going to have to hold a file of information to satisfy your BSS inspector every time

 

Richard

[Chertsey]

Why can't you install a gas fridge within the regs exactly?

 

Perhaps I've misunderstood your post? I installed a gas fridge and my BSS inspector seemed quite happy with it.

I was under the impression that they were a no-no, but even if this isn't the case, as Alan points out, installing gas at all on Chertsey would be completely impractical.

 

I hesitate to mention this, but perhaps you should discuss this with the BSS people to see what requirements they need. As this will be a unique fridge, your probably going to have to hold a file of information to satisfy your BSS inspector every time

 

Richard

I'm not sure they even conceive of paraffin. In any case, it would be cargo

 

Have a look here, it mentions : "Kereosene powered refrigerators need their wicks adjusted weekly and their exhaust flues cleaned regularly because of soot build-up from the relatively dirty fuel. Kerosene refrigerator manufacturers do not make their own wick-type burners. Aladdin® supplies all of their kerosene burners, so replacement parts are readily available. Model number is on the side of the burner or on the knob. Replacement parts are available directly from AladdinLamps.com ". So you might be able to source a burner there.

 

The question then remains is whether the flue of a gas fridge (made for a clean fuel) will be suitable for paraffin.

 

Pieter

OK, so the burner parts are available; the flue might need replacing or modifying - it sounds do-able. So, has anyone got an old gas fridge they don't want? A small old fashioned one would be ideal.

[cereal tiller]

on the subject of alternative fridges,a method i would like to research would be a" water assisted"fridge.

 

if a gas or 12volt unit had a metal coil fitted in the ice box,and a small skin tank fitted which would be at canal /river temperature,some thing like an alde pump (2 watts),could circulate coolant and reduce the overall power requirement ?

[Chalky]

Can I have some of the royalty money when you patent it!

 

Too late. The invention has been publicly disclosed and prior art can be claimed. Something that is frequently drumed into us.

[Guest]

So, has anyone got an old gas fridge they don't want? A small old fashioned one would be ideal.

 

There was a couple knocking about in FS & wanted a couple of weeks back.

[Speedwheel]

So, has anyone got an old gas fridge they don't want? A small old fashioned one would be ideal.

 

I'll keep an eye out for you. Sometimes get them in to dispose of.

[larkshall]

Rather than try and convert gas-kerosene refridgerator why not buy one?. If you keep your eyes open you might even find an old Aladdin one (spares still available). As the OP pointed out they are readily available in Africa (and elsewhere), not all are the size of domestic, smaller and much larger are available.

[Guest]

I hesitate to mention this, but perhaps you should discuss this with the BSS people to see what requirements they need. As this will be a unique fridge, your probably going to have to hold a file of information to satisfy your BSS inspector every time

 

Richard

 

Interestingly the BSS do seem at least to recognise the existence of paraffin fuelled fridges on boats.

 

Section 8.2 here

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/BSS_Guide_chap8.pdf

 

I haven't read this through in detail and the biggest issue on skim reading it seems to relate to them being used on petrol powered boats, which of course here does not apply here.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

 

I'm not sure they even conceive of paraffin. In any case, it would be cargo

 

<snip>

 

Oh, I'm sure they understand Kerosene and it's storage. It's the spillage, venting and flame shielding of the fridge I would want to know about

 

Richard

[andywatson]

on the subject of alternative fridges,a method i would like to research would be a" water assisted"fridge.

 

if a gas or 12volt unit had a metal coil fitted in the ice box,and a small skin tank fitted which would be at canal /river temperature,some thing like an alde pump (2 watts),could circulate coolant and reduce the overall power requirement ?

 

It's easier to fit a box under your floor aginst the base plate. The box should be insulated on the sides and top but be or have good thermal contact with the base plate.

This will acheive the same effect - a box at close to ambient water temperature without any pumps or power use.

 

Some time ago I measured the canal temperature at about 500mm depth on a warm day though and it wasn't as low as I expected or as a fridge would get. About 10 C IIRC

If you have a (proper) boat with a back cabin, you can access the base plate and store beer wine and veggies in pretty cool conditions.

 

 

WRT burning paraffin. It can be made to burn cleanly if the combustion conditions are right ie at high temperatures (jet engines run clean as a whistle).

Wicks are not very efficient but are cheap and allow the low fuel flow rates that a fridge needs.

I suspect that a drip feed burner (as on a Kabola etc )would be OK on a large fridge but not a small one as metering the very low fuel flow would be very difficult.

 

If you do decide to have a go I'd be inclined to try a recovered wick burner of well proven design (see rjas above) and use the longest flue you can.

Edited May 17, 2011 by andywatson

[Gibbo]

if a gas or 12volt unit had a metal coil fitted in the ice box,and a small skin tank fitted which would be at canal /river temperature,some thing like an alde pump (2 watts),could circulate coolant and reduce the overall power requirement ?

 

You'd then be using your ice box (which is colder than the canal) to cool the canal down and thus increase your power consumption.

 

What can be done is to cool the heat exchanger pipes at the back by using the water. Some fridges designed for the offshore world do just that.

[Chertsey]

It's easier to fit a box under your floor aginst the base plate. The box should be insulated on the sides and top but be or have good thermal contact with the base plate.

This will acheive the same effect - a box at close to ambient water temperature without any pumps or power use.

 

Some time ago I measured the canal temperature at about 500mm depth on a warm day though and it wasn't as low as I expected or as a fridge would get. About 10 C IIRC

If you have a (proper) boat with a back cabin, you can access the base plate and store beer wine and veggies in pretty cool conditions.

 

At the moment I'm keeping stuff in the side bed, and am planning to further insulate it from the cabin. It's not quite on the baseplate as there's a wooden floor in there, but it's adjacent to the swim. The temperature in there so far this year has been around 11 - 12 c. Perfect for beer; OK for milk for a couple of days; wouldn't want to try and keep sausages in there. I would expect that to rise though over the course of the summer.

[Speedwheel]

Interestingly the BSS do seem at least to recognise the existence of paraffin fuelled fridges on boats.

 

Section 8.2 here

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/BSS_Guide_chap8.pdf

 

I haven't read this through in detail and the biggest issue on skim reading it seems to relate to them being used on petrol powered boats, which of course here does not apply here.

 

8.7.1 is more likely to cause an issue.

Are flame supervision devices fitted to all LPG and liquid-fuelled

appliances that require them?

 

Check all LPG and liquid-fuelled appliances for the presence of flame

supervision devices.

For any LPG appliance not fitted with flame supervision device(s) seek

to determine from the owner, or from available documentary evidence,

the date the appliance was installed.

For any liquid-fuelled appliance not fitted with flame supervision

device(s), seek to determine from the owner, or from available

documentary evidence, whether the appliance manufacturer requires

such a device to be fitted

[Chertsey]

Oh, I'm sure they understand Kerosene and it's storage. It's the spillage, venting and flame shielding of the fridge I would want to know about

 

Richard

What do they have to say about oil lamps?

 

 

cross posted with Speedwheel.

 

Bear in mind though that this would not be an installation in the standard sense and in the short term would be an experiment conducted at home.

 

Anyway, can you let me worry about the BSS

Edited May 17, 2011 by Chertsey

[RLWP]

For any liquid-fuelled appliance not fitted with flame supervision

device(s), seek to determine from the owner, or from available

documentary evidence, whether the appliance manufacturer requires

such a device to be fitted

 

The more I look at it, the more it looks like you'll be OK

 

Richard

[Chertsey]

Rather than try and convert gas-kerosene refridgerator why not buy one?. If you keep your eyes open you might even find an old Aladdin one (spares still available). As the OP pointed out they are readily available in Africa (and elsewhere), not all are the size of domestic, smaller and much larger are available.

Can you find a small, cheap one available in England/Wales? Cos I can't.