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Tesla Powerwall Battery

Québec

By Québec
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Paul's Nulife4-2 Influencer

Paul's Nulife4-2

Posted
Posted (edited)

I LOVE ideas like this, I think it's like most things, Trial and learning from errors, with a bit of Natural development thrown in to the mix,

One thing that comes to my mind is, a battery capacity is only as good if you have sufficient Matched Solar / Wind / Engine Hrs to recharge it on a daily basis. And as with most systems, Cost is often the deciding factor.

So,,,Chicken and Egg comes to mind,

Edited by Paul's Nulife4-2
Dave Clinton Community Regular

Dave Clinton

Posted
Posted

Might struggle to find space for it on your average narrowboat.

 

I didn't see the size - how big?

Link here: http://mashable.com/2015/05/01/tesla-powerwall/

 

So if it's 7kwh that's around 580ah. According to the link it will cost around $3500. If I bought 5 of these http://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/27TMH/is would cost around £700 and give me the same amount of energy surely? Or am I missing something?

 

Maybe I won't be interested.

 

I would imagine it's a question of real-world lifetime before the cost benefit is known. In a few years time you could probably knock 30% of that price, suddenly making circa £1500 competitive with 2V cells.

Jambo Proficient

Jambo

Posted
Posted

Link here: http://mashable.com/2015/05/01/tesla-powerwall/

 

So if it's 7kwh that's around 580ah. According to the link it will cost around $3500. If I bought 5 of these http://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/27TMH/is would cost around £700 and give me the same amount of energy surely? Or am I missing something?

 

Maybe I won't be interested.

 

It's 7kWh usable capacity. You'd need 10 of those lead acids to get 7kWh assuming you deplete to 50% SoC. And you can get up to a 20 year warranty with the Powerwall but depleting lead acids to 50% would see them lasting a lot less than that.

 

The price point is $350 per kWh which is £227 so it's almost exactly the same capital cost per kWh as Trojans but it'll last a lot longer and I assume it also includes the inverter/charger.

 

That is pretty extraordinary. Game changing I would say, in the long run at least. I don't expect there to be much uptake of home battery packs like this for a long time to come because the economics aren't there yet but electric vehicles are now basically close to a financial tipping point.

  • Greenie 1
Bacchus Proficient

Bacchus

Posted
Posted

 

It's 7kWh usable capacity. You'd need 10 of those lead acids to get 7kWh assuming you deplete to 50% SoC. And you can get up to a 20 year warranty with the Powerwall but depleting lead acids to 50% would see them lasting a lot less than that.

 

The price point is $350 per kWh which is £227 so it's almost exactly the same capital cost per kWh as Trojans but it'll last a lot longer and I assume it also includes the inverter/charger.

 

That is pretty extraordinary. Game changing I would say, in the long run at least. I don't expect there to be much uptake of home battery packs like this for a long time to come because the economics aren't there yet but electric vehicles are now basically close to a financial tipping point.

 

Much better partial charge and cycling characteristics too.

 

The bigger battery would provide 13hp for an hour as well, giving you at 2-3 hours cruising on a canal. A couple of those and a little heavily silenced diesel genset running at optimum efficiency 24 hours a day (I did say heavily silenced...) would give you propulsion and domestics.

 

I think it's a great step forward, funnily enough I had considered buying a crash damaged g-wiz for this very reason.

BlueStringPudding Veteran II

BlueStringPudding

Posted
Posted

Been reading about this via Facebook. It'd fit perfectly under the gunnels on my boat. I want one! Better value than posh batteries plus a posh inverter - which I assume it doesn't need.

 

Cool.

Paul G2 Rising Star

Paul G2

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

The price point is $350 per kWh which is £227 so it's almost exactly the same capital cost per kWh as Trojans but it'll last a lot longer and I assume it also includes the inverter/charger.

 

 

 

From the link:

 

  • InstallationRequires installation by a trained electrician. AC-DC inverter not included.
ditchcrawler Veteran II

ditchcrawler

Posted
Posted

Just seen the chap on the news with the setup in his house in the UK, the battery box was smaller than I have on the boat and that runs a cooker, dishwasher, washing machine etc. It looks good to me.

Detling Rising Star

Detling

Posted
Posted

"Tesla cites 92 percent round-trip DC efficiency with voltage between 350 and 450 volts and a 5 amp nominal output that peaks at 8.5 amps."

 

That's good conversion efficiency but 400v DC is highly lethal, I doubt if you will get a second chance to test it with your fingers, at least with AC mains it allows you to let go 100 times a second before you are fried.

cuthound Veteran II

cuthound

Posted
Posted

The 400 volts DC is industry standard for three phase UPS systems. Notecthry don't include the inverter in the costs. Industry standard UPS's (typically used in dara centres) cost about £1000 per kW, and have a life expectancy of 10 years. I expect the batteries to cost around the same and have a simi!at life expectancy.

 

Best wait until competition sets in and development costs have been amortised before buying one!

Arthur Brown Influencer

Arthur Brown

Posted
Posted

Has anyone ever done a battery life test over both cyclic and float uses, for these Lithium batteries, will they last for ten years? My laptop batteries certainly don't last that long.

Jambo Proficient

Jambo

Posted
Posted

They're offering a 10 year warranty, extendable to 20 years so I would say yes they will last that long.

ditchcrawler Veteran II

ditchcrawler

Posted
Posted

They're offering a 10 year warranty, extendable to 20 years so I would say yes they will last that long.

I bet the small print says not on boats and against manufacturer faults. Just like a well known lead acid battery manufacturer

Jambo Proficient

Jambo

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm sure it does ditchcrawler. This designed for domestic installations with big PV arrays delivering hundreds of volts. You'd need 10 domestic panels to get the voltage up to the level this battery needs.

 

More generally (and more importantly) this announcement is essentially showing that lithium ion batteries are ready to replace lead acid in all applications. I hope and expect the current Trojans I have installed at the moment to be the last I need to buy.

Edited by Jambo

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