Masthead light

[Ray T]

Is there a history of working narrowboats using a ships masthead light as a tunnel light, or is this a recent phenominon(a)?

 

I have trawled through my entire collection of "Narrowboat" and am unable to find one picture.

 

If anyone has any photo's they would like to share I would be grateful.

 

Thank you.

[David Schweizer]

Is there a history of working narrowboats using a ships masthead light as a tunnel light, or is this a recent phenominon(a)?

 

I have trawled through my entire collection of "Narrowboat" and am unable to find one picture.

 

If anyone has any photo's they would like to share I would be grateful.

 

Thank you.

My memories only go back to the 1960's by which time all the working boats I recall used a stadard Vehicle 6" round fog light or spotlight. Having said that, we used a paraffin Tilley searchlight on Pisces, until the electrics were brought up to a standartd where a 12v foglight could be used.

[carlt]

Is there a history of working narrowboats using a ships masthead light as a tunnel light, or is this a recent phenominon(a)?

 

I have trawled through my entire collection of "Narrowboat" and am unable to find one picture.

 

If anyone has any photo's they would like to share I would be grateful.

 

Thank you.

I think it comes under the "If it is brass or has enough surface area to fit a rose painting on, then it is appropriate" category.

 

I cannot find an old photo of a narrow boat with a watering can or plastic cauldron, festooned with roses and castles, but they seem plentiful on today's clonecraft.

Edited March 29, 2011 by carlt

[Timleech]

Is there a history of working narrowboats using a ships masthead light as a tunnel light, or is this a recent phenominon(a)?

 

I have trawled through my entire collection of "Narrowboat" and am unable to find one picture.

 

If anyone has any photo's they would like to share I would be grateful.

 

Thank you.

 

They must have used oil lamps before the days of electrics, & I've certainly seen old masthead lights with old traditional painting. Coincidentally I was watching 'Painted Boats' last night, and there were a couple of shots with a masthead light on the top plank, I don't think this was only for the legging sequence where that would be a good place out of the way.

 

Tim

[Paul H]

The GUCCC pioneered electrics but FMC and others only used oil lamps (no dynamo on a Bolinder!)

 

There is the occasional photograph of an oil lamp fitted but these are rare because it seems the lamps were only hung on the cratch or placed on the foredeck in tunnels or after dark - at other time they were put safely away.

 

More common are pictures of them in boatyard paint shops. So yes they were used but I don't think the ship's masthead type were universal - often a large hurricane lamp would probably have sufficed. There is a picture in Flowers Afloat of masthead lamps in the paint shop at Bulls Bridge in British Waterways days so even after electrics were widely fitted they may still have been issued as backup lighting.

 

I've navigated Blisworth by the light of a Tilley lamp - which was actually superior to a headlight in terms of spread of light. Probaby against the rules now (if it wasn't then!)

 

Paul

[Derek R.]

If you have a copy of 'Victorian & Edwardian Canals from Old Photographs' by D.D. Gladwin, you will see pictures 34 & 36 of the tugs BUFFALO & one other with Mast Head lights. Tony Lewery's 'Flowers Afloat' also shows 'Tunnel' lights of the same type, along with a couple of other box like styles which seem to have a lens such as railway headlights used to have - but not railway lamps themselves. There are few images of these lamps in situ, and I fancy it might have been the norm to keep them safe and away from harm when not in use, hence the lack of pictures.

 

Lewery's book has on P.59 a tunnel lamp painted by Percy Foster in 1945, and the close up of the decoration also shows clearly enough the soldered on scroll 'Mast H...' - on the curved section above the glass.

 

As Ships Chandlers would carry such items as regular stock, it seems most likely it would be that which was widely available as being used, though some ingenuity and salvaging may also have thrown up some interesting alternatives.

 

Paul mentions a Tilley, we used one on YARMOUTH from '86 to '92, and they are perfectly adequate. Takes bit more effort than flicking a switch though!

Edited March 29, 2011 by Derek R.

[mykaskin]

I've navigated Blisworth by the light of a Tilley lamp - which was actually superior to a headlight in terms of spread of light. Probaby against the rules now (if it wasn't then!)

Some friends navigated that tunnel by a candle on the top plank at the fore-end. It was all going so well until a drop from the roof put it out!

 

Mike

[Ray T]

Thanks guys, that's very helpful.

 

I have a copy of Flowers Afloat but it is on the boat!

Edited March 29, 2011 by Ray T

[charles123]

They must have used oil lamps before the days of electrics, & I've certainly seen old masthead lights with old traditional painting. Coincidentally I was watching 'Painted Boats' last night, and there were a couple of shots with a masthead light on the top plank, I don't think this was only for the legging sequence where that would be a good place out of the way.

 

Tim

 

I noticed that as the butty entered the tunnel the lamp was switched on so there must have been a battery somewhere, I wonder where, and I also I wonder how it got charged and whether it was used for a cabin light until flat then recharged

 

Charles

[Derek R.]

I noticed that as the butty entered the tunnel the lamp was switched on so there must have been a battery somewhere, I wonder where, and I also I wonder how it got charged and whether it was used for a cabin light until flat then recharged

 

Charles

 

For the Butty headlight, mostly under the side bed I believe, and largely charged off the Motor's engine dynamo, so it was swopped on a regular basis - though I have no personal experience of that. There was another thread on batteries which in the main were those used for radio sets HERE.

[alan_fincher]

I've navigated Blisworth by the light of a Tilley lamp - which was actually superior to a headlight in terms of spread of light. Probaby against the rules now (if it wasn't then!)

I doubt it.

 

IIRC the requirement is only to show a "visible white light", if the tunnel is over a certain length. A Tilley is surely a "visible while light", (but then so s a singled LED torch! )

 

I think the bye-laws don't actually require a light for tunnels under about a quarter of a mile, so if nobody is coming the other way, I try practising without in tunnels like Shrewley.

 

I have regularly used a Tilley light in the past, but the problem is that the outer glass on a Tilley really doesn't react well to a sudden shower of near freezing cold water.

 

What we regularly did, was to use a not very powerful headlight, (foglight, actually), but supplement it with a Tilley hung under a top-plank just behind a deck board. In that way the Tilley is protected from the worst water down a ventilation shaft, but does a superb job of illuminating tunnel walls at the fore end, allowing you to judge your "latereal" position perfectly. (These days we just turn some key cabin lights on! ).

 

For the Butty headlight, mostly under the side bed I believe, and largely charged off the Motor's engine dynamo, so it was swopped on a regular basis - though I have no personal experience of that.

I find often archive footage of buttys in tunnels shown no headlight in use, even on the GUCCCo boats in the longer tunnels.

 

Often there is, of course, but almost equally often they seem not to bother.

[Keeping Up]

I doubt it.

 

IIRC the requirement is only to show a "visible white light", if the tunnel is over a certain length. A Tilley is surely a "visible while light", (but then so s a singled LED torch! )

 

I think the bye-laws don't actually require a light for tunnels under about a quarter of a mile, so if nobody is coming the other way, I try practising without in tunnels like Shrewley.

 

 

The bye-laws state:

 

 

"Any vessel passing by day or by night through a tunnel exceeding four hundred and forty yards in length shall display in the forepart of the vessel a visible white light."

 

So a torch or a Tilley lamp would be perfectly satisfactory.

 

The Licence T's & C's used to state that the beam of a tunnel light must have a flat cut-off such as a fog-lamp, but this requirement seems (unfortunately) to have disappeared).

.

.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Keeping Up

[Paul H]

The reason I mentioned it is I thought there was something inthe byelaws banning "naked flames" in tunnels. I remember it being feared that steamboats would be stopped from using tunnels at one stage.

 

Paul

 

PS but a naked old flame in a tunnel might be even more dangerous!

Edited March 29, 2011 by Paul H

[mykaskin]

The nice thing about Victoria (now I have a headlight) is that I can have both the hold light (a bright spot light on top of the pigeon box), and headlight on giving full illumination of both boat and tunnel!

 

Not a very good picture from my phone camera, but this inside view of Harecastle gives some idea:

 

 

Only downside is that the switch for the hold light is still in the engine room so was fun before I got the other light. You would often see me leave the 'ellum while I ran inside to switch the light just before or after a tunnel!

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[alan_fincher]

The reason I mentioned it is I thought there was something inthe byelaws banning "naked flames" in tunnels. I remember it being feared that steamboats would be stopped from using tunnels at one stage.

 

Paul

 

I know these days a lot of the tunnels have amongst the (excess!) signage outside instructions to extinguish naked lights.

 

I have never understood why if BW believe they are full of marsh gas, (or whatever!), they think a hob is likely to ignite it, but not a solid fuel stove or cabin range, (which you can hardly turn off for the duration!).

 

Or if it's not explosive gasses, what is the reason for asking for no "naked lights" ?

[mykaskin]

Or if it's not explosive gasses, what is the reason for asking for no "naked lights" ?

 

I think it's to reduce the risk of fire (mostly within the boat). My Mum has quite happily done a cooked tea while passing through tunnels before now!

 

Mike

[Laurence Hogg]

Is there a history of working narrowboats using a ships masthead light as a tunnel light, or is this a recent phenominon(a)?

 

I have trawled through my entire collection of "Narrowboat" and am unable to find one picture.

 

If anyone has any photo's they would like to share I would be grateful.

 

Thank you.

 

Masthead lamps were produced for narrow boats to be used as tunnel lights or when moving at night. The main difference was that they were almost all made from Galvanised steel and always had a plain lense not the fresnel ribbed one common to sea going lamps. They were produced in Birmingham principally by W T George, Bococks and last of all by J C Newey. J C Newey had a works opposite the entrance to Sherbourne wharf and were finally taken over by Davey & Co in the late 1980's. Davey continued to make navigation lights for a while, however the large masthead ones were never produced as the Nazing glassworks could no longer supply the plain lense. I was running Boatmans Cabin Co then and we had an order in for 24 full size mastheads, it was never delivered. In the intervening years several attempts were made to produce the glass, even cutting down goldfish bowls!! No lamps to my knowledge have been made since then with plain glass.

W T George had one main customer who they supplied in volume and that was Fellows, Morton & Clayton who never used electric lamps.

The lamps wre all paraffin lamps employing either large circular wicks or in some cases the Alladin style mantel burner, the latter was very bright. Many examples survive and the Canal Museums have a number on show.

The reason you dont see too many on photos as they were bulky items and were stored out of the way when not in use, the average height for a lamp was around 2ft.

 

 

Here is a picture of an early FMC motor fitted with a Masthead at Stoke Bruerne.

 

Edited March 29, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[Paul H]

Yes i've seen other pictures like this with the masthead light positioned higher than we would expect nowadays. But as they were actually used rather than just for decoration they needed to be set higher so as not to risk setting fire to the cloths. It is clear that a lamp rigged like this would be a nuisance in terms of walking along the top plank to the deck or in handling ropes so that's why they were demounted and put away as soon as they could be.

 

I wonder how often they were used at night. By all accounts working boatsfound it easier to navigate by the light of the moon so I suspect that lamps were mainly used for tunnels which is why so few pictures of them in use exist - except at places like Stoke Bruerne!

 

Paul

[pete harrison]

 

I think the bye-laws don't actually require a light for tunnels under about a quarter of a mile, so if nobody is coming the other way, I try practising without in tunnels like Shrewley.

 

 

The shorter tunnels like Shrewley / Tardebigge e.t.c. are easiest when on a working boat as if you keep the top mast / looby centre lined with the daylight at the far end of the tunnel you go straight through, flat out (tunnels are usually deep) without touching the walls.

Edited March 29, 2011 by pete harrison

[pete harrison]

The bye-laws state:

 

 

"Any vessel passing by day or by night through a tunnel exceeding four hundred and forty yards in length shall display in the forepart of the vessel a visible white light."

 

 

Hmmm !!! So this must mean that when I last passed south through Blisworth tunnel (15 June 2007) and my Large Northwich motor headlight did not work I should have tied up instead of following closely behind another boat ! I must admit I did feel a little sorry for boats coming the other way (north) who were not expecting to see a high fore end directly behind the boat I was following, let alone the un-illuminated butty I was towing !

 

I did repair the headlight for the journey north a couple of days later, although as I left Stoke Bruerne at 4am there were no other boats about anyway.

[Derek R.]

One roof light. Straight down the middle. Blisworth in two minutes.

 

 

[David Schweizer]

Not a masthead lamp, but this is the type of kamp we used on Pisces :- http://www.classicpressurelamps.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/459/post/last/

We had two, bought from an Army Surplus store in the early 1960's. At night we used them to illuminate the boat interior, it was surprising how much heat they emmitted.

[Ray T]

" almost all made from Galvanised steel and always had a plain lense not the fresnel ribbed one common to sea going lamps. "

 

Thanks Laurence.

 

Interesting observation above.

 

I have just purchased this off eBay:

 

 

It is made of galvanised steel, as a plain lens but does not have any indication of a maker.

 

It still has a working parafin burner inside it.

 

At some time in its history it has been painted gold, which is now a bit drab.

 

The lamp is 12.5 inches high excluding the handle.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Ray T

[Derek R.]

Very nice Ray. I don't think we want to know how much it cost - but look after it, and if you need any advice on any repairs and parts, check out Be Back Later, and for parts (wicks etc.) Base Camp.

 

Nice little investment you made on the SL1's David! Well done.

[Ray T]

Derek, thanks for the links.

 

I think I struck lucky, only 2 bidders and cost me £35.