central heating

[mizpah]

i have in the past installed gas central heating at home.but what do i use on our new boat gas or oil ? and why.i saw the alde gas/elec unit but do they use too much gas ?

[Tootles]

i have in the past installed gas central heating at home.but what do i use on our new boat gas or oil ? and why.i saw the alde gas/elec unit but do they use too much gas ?

 

Unless they have changed a lot, then Alde use a LOT of gas. My mate can get through a bottle in a weekend.. We have had an 'Old Dutch Oil fire, with heating coil, installed now for about twelve years, and it's never let us down once. Uses about a gallon of Red Derv every 24/32 hours, and throws out a lot of heat. Whatever system you choose is going to cost in fuel, unless you go the 'free logs' route!! Try and diversify if you have the room. Maybe a log/coal burner for the local heat and the effect, and maybe a tuck away oil boiler for your radiators/hot water. The best of both worlds.

[dor]

Alde gas consumption is significant, but it won't be much different in cost to diesel when you have to pay road prices for it next year. I know you can still use red for heating, but there are practicalities involved which might not make it so easy.

 

A bottle of gas in a weekend? Well I suppose you would if you ran it fairly flat out, but I have never used anywhere near as much as that in an Alde Comfort. I now have an Alde 3010 which is much more efficient. However, I would recommend a solid fuel stove with the central heating, whether gas or diesel.

 

Diesel heaters have their disadvantages as well: they can be noisy, can draw quite a bit from the batteries and some are notoriously unreliable and expensive to maintain. Aldes are extremely reliable.

[Machpoint005]

Alde gas consumption is significant, but it won't be much different in cost to diesel when you have to pay road prices for it next year. I know you can still use red for heating, but there are practicalities involved which might not make it so easy.

 

A bottle of gas in a weekend? Well I suppose you would if you ran it fairly flat out,

 

The amount of fuel you use is going to depend on how hot you want the boat (obviously), but also on how well insulated the hull is. Admittedly you have to have a certain amount of ventilation (both low-level and high-level) but to keep the fabric of the boat warm in winter it has to be properly insulated.

 

An extra jumper is also cheaper than gas or diesel...

 

Ian

[mizpah]

thanks guys. we are putting in a multifuel aswell as i like free wood and have not made toast on a fork since i was a kid.

[david and julie]

I'm with dor on this one. You need to consider all the costs, not just the fuel consumption. We have an Alde comfort model and a little Wenlock stove, we rarely use the boiler, gas is a non issue for us. We find the boiler is nothing more than a back up for chilly Spring/Autumm nights.

 

The toast aspect is the most important.

[Machpoint005]

I'm with dor on this one. You need to consider all the costs, not just the fuel consumption. We have an Alde comfort model and a little Wenlock stove, we rarely use the boiler, gas is a non issue for us. We find the boiler is nothing more than a back up for chilly Spring/Autumm nights.

 

The toast aspect is the most important.

What about keeping a kettle on top of the stove? Only takes a minute to boil it with gas if you start with the water hot!

Ian

[david and julie]

What about keeping a kettle on top of the stove? Only takes a minute to boil it with gas if you start with the water hot!

Ian

 

Would be the best, but at an outlandish £70 I want to watch the eco fan.

[Machpoint005]

What about keeping a kettle on top of the stove? Only takes a minute to boil it with gas if you start with the water hot!

Ian

 

 

Would be the best, but at an outlandish £70 I want to watch the eco fan.

 

 

Sorry, may have misled. Ordinary kettle on top of solid fuel stove, move it over to the gas hob when you want it boiled. Mostly free heat!

 

Ian

[blueprince]

for free heat, I frequently place a 45 gallon drum full of water under a pylon then throw a wire around the cables, instant 45 boiling gallons, asuming you've avoided being electocuted, this is now a good time to run.

 

Seriously, you could probably rig up some sort of induction rig to draw power from overhead lines, but i'm not sure this is legal, and you'd have to stay near wires.

[honey ryder]

if we leave a kettle on the top of our stove it will boil dry...

our stove was so hot last winter when we stoked it up we had to open a window in the bedroom to cool it down a bit.

I even had to move the dog bed to the kitchen because it was in danger of overheating in the living room.

 

just remember to pull the bed clothes back first otherwise the middle of the bed is ice cold and the air is roasting hot... a very strange combination when its minus summat outside.

[magnetman]

Technically speaking, tea should be made with water freshly drawn from tap and not from previously stewed water. If the sf stove gets hot enough to cook the dog then maybe you need 2 stoves or a circulation system?.

[honey ryder]

Technically speaking, tea should be made with water freshly drawn from tap and not from previously stewed water. If the sf stove gets hot enough to cook the dog then maybe you need 2 stoves or a circulation system?.

 

since neither of us drink tea or coffee the only time we use the kettle is to boil water to make gravy if theres not enough from the vegetables and to put excess water in from the shower when we run the cold off before the hot comes through.

we used the stove to heat food up in winter or keep food warm while i was cooking something else.

I would say our stove is probably a bit big for the space its in. I think I would be happy with one half the size, although then im not sure it would give off enough heat to warm the bedroom up as well. I think a 12v fan blowing the hot air from the living room to the bedroom might be a good idea this winter. It was literally so hot in the living room that i couldnt breath and the dog was panting. it was minus 5 or so outside. but because we used "shit" wood, it was all gone by morning and the bedroom temperature was around +5.... ive got a good duvet thankfully. still, it makes you feel more alive and more at one with the world around you when getting out of bed involves getting dressed before you take the duvet off.

[anhar]

I never understood this desire for solid fuel stoves on modern narrowboats even though I do see that it comes from tradition because that's all there was on the old cargo boats. I have a Morsø on my new boat merely because it came as standard but I can't see myself using it much because I have a diesel ch system as well which I intend as my primary source of heat. I'm not a liveaboard though. I want to try the stove out for fun, and in that regard I spent a lot of time last year cutting wood for it, or if the ch breaks down, but otherwise it's stone age technology. Filthy, work creating, space consuming, difficult to control, goes out, doesn't heat the boat uniformly, and so on as we've seen in this thread alone. Solid fuel died out decades ago in most housing as the sole means of heat and good riddance too.

 

The interesting thing is that in housing most people want cleanliness, labour saving and convenience hence gas ch. Few want the dirt and chores associated with sf. Yet on narrowboats it's almost the opposite in many cases. Boaters actively seek out that which will create work. Most odd.

 

regards

Steve

Edited August 9, 2007 by anhar

[saltysplash]

I never understood this desire for solid fuel stoves on modern narrowboats even though I do see that it comes from tradition because that's all there was on the old cargo boats. I have a Morsø on my new boat merely because it came as standard but I can't see myself using it much because I have a diesel ch system as well which I intend as my primary source of heat. I'm not a liveaboard though. I want to try the stove out for fun, and in that regard I spent a lot of time last year cutting wood for it, or if the ch breaks down, but otherwise it's stone age technology. Filthy, work creating, space consuming, difficult to control, goes out, doesn't heat the boat uniformly, and so on as we've seen in this thread alone. Solid fuel died out decades ago in most housing as the sole means of heat and good riddance too.

 

The interesting thing is that in housing most people want cleanliness, labour saving and convenience hence gas ch. Few want the dirt and chores associated with sf. Yet on narrowboats it's almost the opposite in many cases. Boaters actively seek out that which will create work. Most odd.

 

regards

Steve

 

Ah yes but theres lots of free wood out there just waiting to be snaffled up and burnt....free FREE i tell you, also it can double up as a cremation oven for those smaller pets that have shuffled off this mortal coil and you cant be arsed to dig a pit. Obviously larger pets would have to be cut into burnable sections but its still free heat

[carlt]

The interesting thing is that in housing most people want cleanliness, labour saving and convenience hence gas ch. Few want the dirt and chores associated with sf. Yet on narrowboats it's almost the opposite in many cases. Boaters actively seek out that which will create work. Most odd.

 

regards

Steve

I've just ripped out two modern gas fires and replaced them with victorian cast iron fire places. Then again I get fed up with the double glazing salesfolk telling me I should replace my perfectly sound 140 year old oak sash windows with upvc double glazing (they've got a 20 year guarantee, you know).

[anhar]

I've just ripped out two modern gas fires and replaced them with victorian cast iron fire places. Then again I get fed up with the double glazing salesfolk telling me I should replace my perfectly sound 140 year old oak sash windows with upvc double glazing (they've got a 20 year guarantee, you know).

I said most people Carl. That means there are exceptions. Why is that every time an accurate generalisation is made someone says that well, they don't do that, implying therefore that the generalisation must be wrong just because they personally don't follow it.

 

Anyway it remains contradictory that in property homes people in general go for labour saving and efficiency. On narrowboats a large number do the opposite, seeking out that which is the most labour creating and inefficient. I guess it says something about those boaters though I'm not sure exactly what.

 

regards

Steve

[cugsey]

whilst i also have central heating on my boat

i must confess that i do use the wood burner as the main souce of heat

i find it sort of ,well you know,kinda like nicer

oh and a lot cheaper

[saltysplash]

I said most people Carl. That means there are exceptions. Why is that every time an accurate generalisation is made someone says that well, they don't do that, implying therefore that the generalisation must be wrong just because they personally don't follow it.

 

Thats the problem with making generalisations

Youll find that solid fuel is much more popular in houses than you might think, lookat all the fireplace shops now selling solid fuel stoves and fireplaces, and a couple of years ago you couldnt buy one from B&Q. You can now

 

Anyway it remains contradictory that in property homes people in general go for labour saving and efficiency. On narrowboats a large number do the opposite, seeking out that which is the most labour creating and inefficient. I guess it says something about those boaters though I'm not sure exactly what.

 

regards

Steve

 

Labour creating yes, inefficient? no, not really. Light fire, fire is hot, warms up the stove which warms up the radiators if you use a gravity fed system and all for free if your prepared to collect that wood on your walks along the towpath while searching for lost wallets.

 

Diesel fired heating can be noisy and expensive depending how often you have it on.

I still use paraffin lamps on the old tub even though i have mains and 24v lighting available, why? coz i like the soft light they give off.

Each to their own i guess, and use whatever heating system you like for either economy or coz its turn on an offable

Edited August 9, 2007 by saltysplash

[anhar]

Thats the problem with making generalisations

Youll find that solid fuel is much more popular in houses than you might think, lookat all the fireplace shops now selling solid fuel stoves and fireplaces, and a couple of years ago you couldnt buy one from B&Q. You can now

 

Your reasoning is wrong there because those fireplaces are not used as the sole means of heat. Few people would rip out their ch and go back to open fires as the sole means of heating the house. They have become popular again as a fashion item in houses that I'm sure also have central heating as the primary source. The open fire is just for occasional cosy effect, not to heat the house. It is very much secondary to the primary source of gas ch. In my previous house I lit a fire occasionally, maybe two or three days a year just for that reason as we had the usual gas ch. I can understand that, it's nice and it is the way I intend to use the sf stove on my boat. Very occasionally and for effect, also as a backup if the ch breaks down.

 

Personally though, I fail to understand the desire for filthy sf stoves as the primary or often sole means of heat which means they have to run all the time with the consequent dirt, work, inefficiency, poor uniformity of heating and so on. As I said, this runs, oddly, contrary to the trend in property. Not to mention their failure to deliver hot water. And even if you have a boiler attached, you won't be using it in the summer so still no hot water then, you have to run the engine for that.

 

regards

Steve

[saltysplash]

Your reasoning is wrong there because those fireplaces are not used as the sole means of heat. Few people would rip out their ch and go back to open fires as the sole means of heating the house. They have become popular again as a fashion item in houses that I'm sure also have central heating as the primary source. The open fire is just for occasional cosy effect, not to heat the house. It is very much secondary to the primary source of gas ch. In my previous house I lit a fire occasionally, maybe two or three days a year just for that reason as we had the usual gas ch. I can understand that, it's nice and it is the way I intend to use the sf stove on my boat. Very occasionally and for effect, also as a backup if the ch breaks down.

 

Personally though, I fail to understand the desire for filthy sf stoves as the primary or often sole means of heat which means they have to run all the time with the consequent dirt, work, inefficiency, poor uniformity of heating and so on. As I said, this runs, oddly, contrary to the trend in property. Not to mention their failure to deliver hot water. And even if you have a boiler attached, you won't be using it in the summer so still no hot water then, you have to run the engine for that.

 

regards

Steve

 

Very true, but you may also find for some people the increasing cost of heating has influenced their descision, who knows, maybe we need a pol from house holders

 

As for filthy sf stoves not heating the water, well again i've found them more than adequate and in these long hot summers of ours the paloma water heater gives instant hot water

[mizpah]

i only asked , gas or oil ! and now people are cutting up pets and keeping lost wallets !

[smileypete]

i only asked , gas or oil ! and now people are cutting up pets and keeping lost wallets !

 

Hi,

 

Last time I looked bottled gas was quite a bit more pricy than read diesel/heating oil.

 

However red diesel might be harder to come by when it's no longer allowed for narrowboat engine fuel.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[chris w]

I intend to use the sf stove on my boat. Very occasionally and for effect, also as a backup if the ch breaks down.

 

regards

Steve

 

 

This was my original intention too. However, in reality the c/h gets the boat really warm rather than toasting hot depending on outside temperature of course. (I have a Webasto diesel heater which drives the hot water plus 3 rads - it is really very efficient in use of fuel - 0.25l/hr after the first 20 mins).

 

The stove I have (Becton Bunny) gets the boat really hot (over 30degC) and it's great to stoke up overnight and wake up to a really warm boat. One could of course set the c/h to come on (which I do) but the Becton gives heat all night silently. The Webasto acts as a kind of alarm clock as it can be heard when it starts up.

 

With regard to the mess, the Becton does need to be cleaned but it's not as messy as I had originally thought. One simply brushes any residual ash inside into the tray beneath, empties the tray and sets up the fire with new coal. After a few days of use, I will vacuum the bottom tray area to get rid of any surplus. So not exactly hassle-free but certainly nowhere near as much hassle as I had imagined.

 

Chris

[saltysplash]

i only asked , gas or oil ! and now people are cutting up pets and keeping lost wallets !

 

I was only suggesting a cheap and easy way to dispose of the remains of those deceased unwanted pets.

 

as for looking for lost wallets......what else are ya gonna do while waiting for fido to do its biz on the towpath

 

mmmmmmm...free fuel