Order of Electricity

[Felshampo]

Is there a correct order for switching on the electrical equipment?

At the moment I switch on the invertor first. Then when I want to use a bit more electricity I start the generator. I then turn a switch on the electric board from off to generator. This causes the invertor to switch itself off and then on. It is now in charge mode with the 240v light on showing it is passing the generator voltage through it. 

When I switch off I turn the generator switch to off and then turn the generator off. This sometimes trips the 240v. Then the invertor switches to invertor mode. 

Should I turn the invertor off before I turn on the generator? Should I turn the invertor off before I switch off the generator.

There is potential to do damage here or am I being too cautious. 

[Robbo]

The charger/inverter should provide power 24/7 and not switch off your electric.   This presumes it's wired up correctly which alot of boats aren't.    If you have a rotary switch saying "Off / Shore / Generator / Inverter" then my guess is it isn't wired up correctly.

[Felshampo]

The rotary switch is three way shore-off-generator. 

When I'm using the invertor it's in the off position. 

The invertor doesn't switch off the electric but switching off the generator sometimes trips it. 

You can see the switch in the bottom right of the panel. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Felshampo

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, Felshampo said:

Should I turn the invertor off before I turn on the generator? Should I turn the invertor off before I switch off the generator.

I would. Cheap Inverter Chargers fail for a pastime and the high quality ones are exorbitantly expensive to diagnose and repair, so why take the risk of it being killed by a self inflicted spike?

[Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Cheap Inverter Chargers

Looks like a MasterVolt, so it's not cheap and it's not shite.   OP also has decent panel make as well.  What is tripping when it happens?  

[mark99]

I have the same switch as that. It was wired up incorrectly and used to throw the shorepower breaker for everyone when moving to generator position. So its not unknown for them be badly wired up. I had to order a new one and there was a thread in here about it with images. Does not sound like same issue but thread did have a wiring diagram.

[mark99]

 

 

 

[Felshampo]

58 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Looks like a MasterVolt, so it's not cheap and it's not shite.   OP also has decent panel make as well.  What is tripping when it happens?  

The 240v trip which is the panel above the generator switch. I can't show a closer pic as I'm not on the boat at the moment. 

It is a MasterVolt. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Felshampo

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, Robbo said:

The charger/inverter should provide power 24/7 and not switch off your electric.   This presumes it's wired up correctly which alot of boats aren't.    If you have a rotary switch saying "Off / Shore / Generator / Inverter" then my guess is it isn't wired up correctly.

I have an all singing and dancing combi but thankfuly it goes through such a switch via a trip. As a non profesional leccy person if I lose power I can immediately see if shore power or if on gennie if they are working due to the lamp being lit. There is a boat moored next to mine at present and the other night the blokes missus whilst he was away ran out of leccy. I went round to check and its a victron combi. One yellow light was blinking and I eventualy deduced there was only 11 volts in the bank but was unsure wether the victron unit had gone down or wether the shore power was at fault. The shore power seemed ok so there was nowt I could do as it was pitch dark.  Next day I went round and found a second trip on the land based leccy supply and all was soon running. Thing is if there had been a simple changeover switch with power available light in the boat as with mine I would instantly have known it was the shoreline problem. All this so clever automatic stuff can cause way more problems for the lay person than its worth.

[Robbo]

19 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

The 240v trip which is the panel above the generator switch. I can't show a closer pic as I'm not on the boat at the moment. 

It is a MasterVolt. 

If you can get a detailed photo of the panel which trips, and/or which switch trips and what's written on it.    Actually as well whats written/photo on the above panel as well as it seems strange you have two panels the same.   What is the top one for?

Edited November 19, 2018 by Robbo

[Felshampo]

13 minutes ago, Robbo said:

If you can get a detailed photo of the panel which trips, and/or which switch trips and what's written on it.    Actually as well whats written/photo on the above panel as well as it seems strange you have two panels the same.   What is the top one for?

OK will do. I will be going to the boat tomorrow so I will take a few photos and the put them on here on Wednesday. 

[Sea Dog]

3 hours ago, Robbo said:

Looks like a MasterVolt, so it's not cheap and it's not shite.   

My sentence you selectively quoted from did continue "and the high quality ones are exorbitantly expensive to diagnose and repair, ", so that's Mastervolt covered!  Was that photo always there?  It wasn't visible to me when I replied.  Incidentally, I have a dead one of those (well a 12-2500/100) sat in my garage which expired after an electrician testing the shore supply bollard disconnect it under load.  On restoration of power the transfer relay circuitry no longer worked.  Coincidence? 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Sea Dog

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, Felshampo said:

OK will do. I will be going to the boat tomorrow so I will take a few photos and the put them on here on Wednesday. 

And a very lovely boat she is too.  I recognised her from your internal photo in Post #3.  We took over her berth from her first owner when she was new.  I trust she's every bit as lovely as I have her in my mind?   If so, should you want to move her on, I'll be round like a shot! 

 

[Felshampo]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

And a very lovely boat she is too.  I recognised her from your internal photo in Post #3.  We took over her berth from her first owner when she was new.  I trust she's every bit as lovely as I have her in my mind?   If so, should you want to move her on, I'll be round like a shot! 

 

I have to agree she is lovely.

We have only had her for a few months so I am still finding my way around her. The original owners certainly did a good job of designing her and kitting her out. We fell in love with her when we first saw her and have no plans to let her go just yet..... Sorry! 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Felshampo

[Drayke]

6 hours ago, Felshampo said:

In this picture there is a gauge at the top , I think it’s to do with solar panels ,would you by any chance have a manual for it, if so would it be possible to PM me a copy as I know someone that has recently purchased a narrow boat and is need of a copy.  

Thanks Fred.

[Mike55]

On 19/11/2018 at 18:47, Sea Dog said:

 Incidentally, I have a dead one of those (well a 12-2500/100) sat in my garage which expired after an electrician testing the shore supply bollard disconnect it under load.  On restoration of power the transfer relay circuitry no longer worked.  Coincidence? 

I have a Mastervolt unit. A few months ago the shore supply tripped (due to water in the 16A trailing socket) when it was in charger only mode. On re-establishing the supply the charger wouldn't work. Turned out all it needed was a reset, which involves switching to inverter mode and then returning to charger position. It's been fine since.

[Felshampo]

On 19/11/2018 at 16:50, Robbo said:

If you can get a detailed photo of the panel which trips, and/or which switch trips and what's written on it.    Actually as well whats written/photo on the above panel as well as it seems strange you have two panels the same.   What is the top one for?

Here is the panel photo. I would appreciate it if you could explain the function of the two lefthand ones. 

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

Here is the panel photo. I would appreciate it if you could explain the function of the two lefthand ones. 

 

 Should that be "right hand"? If so how many shoreline sockets do you have - thinking possible one at each end of the boat or is one for inverter power and one for shorepower. If so then I thought you only needed one consumer unit with RCD that will do both if correctly wired.

 

Is one for a generator input? But again I think one correctly wired will suffice.

 

The mains chaps will be along soon with chapter and verse.

[Robbo]

8 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

Here is the panel photo. I would appreciate it if you could explain the function of the two lefthand ones. 

From the LED's lit it looks like the panel above the rotary is fed after the Inverter?  Is it the 16A dual breaker that trips?  As breakers work from downstream it doesn't make sense why it should trip.   What is the AC top panel for and is the reverse polarity LED on?

[WotEver]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

The mains chaps will be along soon with chapter and verse.

Not this one. I’m confused by it. 

 

I’d guess (but it’s only a guess) that the top one is for shore power and the bottom one is for genny (raw water cooled by the looks of the ‘seawater temp’ light). However, the top one is showing reverse polarity, the bottom one is showing mains present, yet the selector switch isn’t showing ‘mains available’ on either side. 

 

But the above is all guesswork so hopefully someone will be along that’s seen a similar installation before. 

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Not this one. I’m confused by it. 

Glad I'm not the only one  

[Felshampo]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 Should that be "right hand"?

YES! can't tell my right from my left. 

I have one shore power socket at the front. I think there are two rcd consumer units behind the board but I couldn't swear. 

Is the middle one for the generator and the top one for shore power? 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Felshampo said:

YES! can't tell my right from my left. 

I have one shore power socket at the front. I think there are two rcd consumer units behind the board but I couldn't swear. 

Is the middle one for the generator and the top one for shore power? 

That's the $64000 question. From the info I doubt anyone knows apart from the person who fitted it all unless you carefully tale the panels out and see if you can trace the input cables back to source.

[Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

YES! can't tell my right from my left. 

I have one shore power socket at the front. I think there are two rcd consumer units behind the board but I couldn't swear. 

Is the middle one for the generator and the top one for shore power? 

Put a red armband around your left arm, and a green on the other

 

The middle one looks to fed after the inverter, I presume if you flip the dual 16amp breaker all the electric goes off.   What the top is for is anyone's guess, does it do anything if you flip the breakers to off?   Does it light when on shore or running the gen?   This things can be re-wired from standard and usually only one of those panels would be used so to really figure it out you should ask the previous owner or get someone who's comfortable with electrics to figure it out to really have a look.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Robbo

[Felshampo]

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Not this one. I’m confused by it. 

 

I’d guess (but it’s only a guess) that the top one is for shore power and the bottom one is for genny (raw water cooled by the looks of the ‘seawater temp’ light). However, the top one is showing reverse polarity, the bottom one is showing mains present, yet the selector switch isn’t showing ‘mains available’ on either side. 

 

But the above is all guesswork so hopefully someone will be along that’s seen a similar installation before. 

I took the photo when the genny was not on only the invertor.