Webasto\Eberspacher 4 or 5 KW?

[Johny London]

Yes - just thinking, that will be the condensation drain. I didn't notice one on mine so I will have to check. And while I'm at it answer a couple of other questions re the install.

I have got exhaust lagging but not put it on yet!

[Motters79]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Different application - but - My old motorcycle exhaust had a hole in the bottom to allow condensation etc to drain out and minimise the exhaust 'rusting thru'.

You're probably answered the question there. Maybe this type should be installed with the hole facing down so gravity will do its thing. However if it is lagged and used inside I wouldn't have thought there'd be much in the way of condensation forming inside and any that does would surely evaporate and exit which the gases once its up to temperature. Its obviously designed to be used in well ventilated settings as in a car engine bay.

 

I'm tempted to seal the hole with fire gum and lagging as I mentioned earlier. I will just need some extra pipe as the pipe supplied is a bit short for my install.

 

I'm assuming all the boaters who have this silencer type have had no BSS issues relating to it? Johnny? 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Motters79 said:

You're probably answered the question there. Maybe this type should be installed with the hole facing down so gravity will do its thing. However if it is lagged and used inside I wouldn't have thought there'd be much in the way of condensation forming inside and any that does would surely evaporate and exit which the gases once its up to temperature. Its obviously designed to be used in well ventilated settings as in a car engine bay.

 

I'm tempted to seal the hole with fire gum and lagging as I mentioned earlier. I will just need some extra pipe as the pipe supplied is a bit short for my install.

 

I'm assuming all the boaters who have this silencer type have had no BSS issues relating to it? Johnny? 

Once it is wrapped up in lagging no-one can tell what 'lurks below the surface'.

 

Acidic condensation can occur after the engine is switched off, the boat is sat overnight / a few days before it is bought back up to temperature, the condensation sits festering away.

[Motters79]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Once it is wrapped up in lagging no-one can tell what 'lurks below the surface'.

 

Acidic condensation can occur after the engine is switched off, the boat is sat overnight / a few days before it is bought back up to temperature, the condensation sits festering away.

I see what your saying. In that case, if you did have a 'gas tight' silencer, wouldn't this be subject to the same potential problem?

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Motters79 said:

I see what your saying. In that case, if you did have a 'gas tight' silencer, wouldn't this be subject to the same potential problem?

Probably.

I'm always reluctant to 'modify' a safety critical part, as I work on the basis that 'its done for a reason'.

You could just 'plug the hole' but …………………..

[Johny London]

Come to think of it, I think there may have been mention of a "condensation drain" previously - I had assumed there would be a sort of mechanism - perhaps a screw hole with a rudimentary valve or screw in stopper, to facilitate occasional draining. Mine definitely doesn't have anything like that - would never have thought of anything so rudimentary as a simple hole.

[RichM]

I just had my 15+ year old Eberspacher D5WSC replaced with a brand new D4. It heated up a 60 litre calorifier, one full sized radiator and 2 fin rads in about 15 minutes (55ft semi trad) and it's quieter too. So far I'm impressed. Fingers crossed it will pass the test of time! I find Eber's too fiddly to work with so rather than do it myself I had it replaced by Dale at AC Automotive for £650 part exchange, including a 3 year warranty. parts and labour. Can't complain. 

 

 

Source: https://www.butlertechnik.com/downloads/Eberspacher_heater_Narrowboat_infomation_leaflet.pdf

[Motters79]

I'm now trying to decide what radiators to fit, bearing in mind I've gone for the Thermo Top C 5.2KW (against advice admittedly but there were no recon Es available and couldn't afford new).

 

Id prefer singles as they are slimmer. Was considering 3 600 x1000 singles but there kW rating is only 1.1 so that'd be 3.3 kW plus my 50ish litre calorifier. Would that be enough to keep the Wee Bastard (webasto) happy?

 

If I go for doubles I'm worried I'll bake in my 55 foot trad. What size rads do others run off their Thermo Top Cs? 

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Motters79 said:

I'm now trying to decide what radiators to fit, bearing in mind I've gone for the Thermo Top C 5.2KW (against advice admittedly but there were no recon Es available and couldn't afford new).

 

Id prefer singles as they are slimmer. Was considering 3 600 x1000 singles but there kW rating is only 1.1 so that'd be 3.3 kW plus my 50ish litre calorifier. Would that be enough to keep the Wee Bastard (webasto) happy?

 

If I go for doubles I'm worried I'll bake in my 55 foot trad. What size rads do others run off their Thermo Top Cs? 

I have two of 16 inch deep by 40 inch long doubles and two two feet by 16 inch doubles and at least a dozen or more fin rads and a large calorifier. 22 mil pipe running both sides of my 68 foot boat in a continuous loop from webasto unit in rear engine whole. It all gets too hot to touch and gets boat toasty. We have doors and windows to regulate heat but generally it's only back up heat as the stove is the main source. I suggest you need more than what you quote or it will cycle pretty quickly.

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, Motters79 said:

If I go for doubles I'm worried I'll bake in my 55 foot trad. What size rads do others run off their Thermo Top Cs? 

My Eber 4kW heats my 57 footer with ease, and even then I use it in bursts and shut it down when cycling starts.  Fortunately for me, that about coincides with the 1 hour button, a tank of hot water and a toasty boat. In the winter the stove is up to speed by then too.  You need bigger (or more) radiators but, if Roy Schieder posted on here, he'd be telling you "you're gonna need a bigger boat!"

 

[Johny London]

Yes, you will need more than 3kw of rads. I used the rather stylish column rads on my boat - and funny enough going for deeper ones doesn't seem to impede on space - though going for wider ones looses you a lot of useful wall, so I have some two column and some three.

Doing the pipe all the way round is a good idea as it would be useful to have a few rads each side. Have you thought of trying the skirting board rad? It looks pricey compared to cheapo flat panels but when you consider how much you would save on pipe, t's, valves etc, it works out ok, and you would have very even distribution of heat. I was tempted to go this rout but in the end I just liked the look of the column rads.

[system 4-50]

On 19/09/2018 at 13:12, mrsmelly said:

I have two of 16 inch deep by 40 inch long doubles and two two feet by 16 inch doubles and at least a dozen or more fin rads and a large calorifier. 22 mil pipe running both sides of my 68 foot boat in a continuous loop from webasto unit in rear engine whole. It all gets too hot to touch and gets boat toasty. We have doors and windows to regulate heat but generally it's only back up heat as the stove is the main source. I suggest you need more than what you quote or it will cycle pretty quickly.

Slightly aside, is this a one-pipe system or a two-pipe system?

[mrsmelly]

20 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Slightly aside, is this a one-pipe system or a two-pipe system?

Two pipes. A continuous run from engine hole down port side across front under entrance steps and down starboard side to the laundry room or in fact just before it in the bathroom at the rear, the two pipes are then joined to make a continuous loop. Along much of its length are the fin rads and then the four rads are teed off at their various locations. A superb system which I wonder why not many boats have fitted. This boat also has full mains wiring full length both sides of cabin and hot and cold water supply to both port and starboard.

[Johny London]

Should the two pipes be joined at the end though? I would have thought it would "short circuit" the flow of water into the rads, to a certain extent.

[mrsmelly]

12 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Should the two pipes be joined at the end though? I would have thought it would "short circuit" the flow of water into the rads, to a certain extent.

Quite the opposite. The water flows continuously in a loop.

[Motters79]

I think Johnny means that it will be more inclined to go round and round the spine and rather through each rad. Obviously not, or we're misunderstanding something, because you say it heats the boat effectively! 

[Johny London]

Yes that's exactly what I mean. The fact that it happens to double back around the boat has no bearing on how the spine ends are or are not connected. Normally, they are not joined up to each other at the end of a run. Merely terminated.

[mrsmelly]

15 hours ago, Motters79 said:

I think Johnny means that it will be more inclined to go round and round the spine and rather through each rad. Obviously not, or we're misunderstanding something, because you say it heats the boat effectively! 

Ok so the top pipe from the heating unit is where the radiators is teed off and the other end of the rad is teed in to the return flow and the fin rads are all on the outbound bit. The entire system is very hot.

[NMEA]

On 04/09/2018 at 23:47, blackrose said:

What's the difference between the Thermotop E 4.2kW narrowboat kit and the standard kit? 

The ECU is different to allow lower voltage operation, the kit also has a proper marine exhaust system, correct length loom and many other bits to ensure BSS compliance, but most importantly if you fit a standard heater to a boat you will not get the three year warranty and may not even have any warranty at all.

[Motters79]

On 11/09/2018 at 10:58, Johny London said:

 

leebob (ebay) FAG filter for Webasto £25.00

Hi Johnny, was filter the metal body type with a shut off tap? Can't seem to find anything called an FAG filter.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Motters79 said:

Hi Johnny, was filter the metal body type with a shut off tap? Can't seem to find anything called an FAG filter.

Plenty on Google - all sorts

 

 

 

http://www.fagonline.com/web_eng/1 filtro gasolio.htm

[Motters79]

I knew someone would try to be humourous (if thats how you spell it) ? Thanks though. For some reason I didn't Google it. 

[Johny London]

Yes the filter is as pictured above, but with a shut off valve. 

[blackrose]

Well it certainly has been an epic installation but I'm glad you got there in the end. I've just bought a refurbed Thermotop C from that guy on ebay so I may well be picking your brains Johnny. I'm sure NMEA is sick of us all! 

 

I might have a slightly easier job as I used to have an eberspacher which I got rid of nearly 10 years ago. So I still have the fuel feed pipe, exhaust and ch system in place. 

 

The fuel to my eberspacher was never filtered. I have a CAV/Delphi water trap for the engine but it's too far from where the webasto is going. The location's more or less fixed by the exhaust position. So am I advised to fit a dedicated CAV water trap? My fuel line is only about 4 or 5 mm I think. How do I get that to go through the CAV? Perhaps this has already been discussed in the thread but at the moment I'm on a bus going across Tanzania so haven't read every post in detail. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by blackrose

[Motters79]

Me again! I've almost got all the bits to do the install! Just need to order the fuel pipe. I was looking at how I'm gonna mount the unit itself today and the best location would require me to straddle the battery to consumer unit cable run (fat cables zip tied to angle iron) with the bracket. It won't be touching the cable as the bracket plus anti vibration noggins will stand it clear by a good 5mm. Would this violate any regs? I'm not worried that heat would affect the cables. They're kind of shielded by the angle iron they're clipped to. I'll try and post a picture later.