Narrowboat handymen

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Clodi said:

I really don't understand why people who obviously love the canals are so anti anyone who actively want to avoid nasty chemicals and conserve water.

As has been said a number of times you are correct - the problem is not 'those that love and want to cherish the canals', but those to whom a boat is just a cheap way of getting somewhere to live, they don't give a toss (in many instances) about the history, heritage or future of the canals, all they want is a house 'in the city', it doesn't even have to move, just be a 'watertight' roof over their heads - these are the sort of people (in ever increasing numbers) that will not wait 6 months, 12 months or 3 years with a bucket of poo under their bed and will dispose of it at the earliest opportunity into whatever receptacle they come across.

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

the problem is not 'those that love and want to cherish the canals', but those to whom a boat is just a cheap way of getting somewhere to live, they don't give a toss (in many instances) about the history, heritage or future of the canals, all they want is a house 'in the city', it doesn't even have to move, just be a 'watertight' roof over their heads - these are the sort of people (in ever increasing numbers) that will not wait 6 months, 12 months or 3 years with a bucket of poo under their bed and will dispose of it at the earliest opportunity into whatever receptacle they come across.

But surely that type of person - if the type exists - would not choose a composting toilet anyway.

[George and Dragon]

49 minutes ago, Clodi said:

I really don't understand why people who obviously love the canals are so anti anyone who actively want to avoid nasty chemicals and conserve water.

Neither do I and I'm sorry if I came over that way

[Robbo]

1 hour ago, Clodi said:

I really don't understand why people who obviously love the canals are so anti anyone who actively want to avoid nasty chemicals and conserve water.

 

Unless you have the land to do the composting and use the compost it's actually worse for the environment (bag it / bin it approach) and only few boaters will have this.

 

A. You don't have too use chemicals in either a pump out or cassette toilet system.  Bar Dihydrogen monoxide of course.

B. Water and gravity is used for the transport system in most cases to transport your waste to where it gets processed, with a sh*t in a bucket and bag (sorry "composting" toilet you are using lorries to basically transport the waste to landfill.

C. Using a pump out/cassette (without chemicals) is not unenvironmentally friendly in the first place.

D. If your concerned about the consumption of fresh water then you can use grey/rain/canal water, but marine toilets use very little in the first place anyhow.

E. "Composting" toilets encourage to just chuck pee in the cut in most cases.   This is not good for the canal or the fishes.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Robbo

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Robbo said:

D. If your concerned about the consumption of fresh water then you can use grey/rain/canal water, but marine toilets use very little in the first place anyhow.

Both of our boats use 'external' water to flush, on the Cat, it is Sea Water, on the Cruiser it is River or Sea water.

They are called 'Sea-toilets' and therefore use zero precious 'clean' water.

 

Commonly fitted on GRP boats but I have never seen on fitted to a NB - maybe that would be a good environmentally friendly step forward ?

[Clodi]

E. "Composting" toilets encourage to just chuck pee in the cut in most cases.   This is not good for the canal or the fishes

 

Where does it say that ? FFS

I'm not saying anything against anyones choice of disposal. In fact I have a boat with a sea-toilet fitted you open the sea cock and flush it straight-out into the sea or river in my case.

Composting systems may not be for you but no-one is saying to empty cassettes full of piss into the cut. 

[Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Clodi said:

E. "Composting" toilets encourage to just chuck pee in the cut in most cases.   This is not good for the canal or the fishes

 

Where does it say that ? FFS

I'm not saying anything against anyones choice of disposal. In fact I have a boat with a sea-toilet fitted you open the sea cock and flush it straight-out into the sea or river in my case.

Composting systems may not be for you but no-one is saying to empty cassettes full of piss into the cut. 

You may not chuck it in the cut, but a good majority will.

A “compost” toilet reduces emptying and finding a elsan, so as most of us are lazy they will be used like the following....

a. Chuck the pee in a bush every day/other day

b. Bag and chuck the solids every month or so in a bin.

c. The real naughty people may just chuck the half composted waste in the bush as well.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Robbo

[Clodi]

A sea toilet

 

I'ts sad that you expect the worst in everyone. I've grown up with boats and around 'boat-type' people both here and abroad and yes , at sea ,everything gets chucked into the ocean but I like to think that we, as humans are starting to see the error of our ways and that if everyone just makes a bit of effort we can start to lead by example and clean up our act.

People have been pissing in the hedges and emptying cassettes into the cut long before the hysteria around composting toilets.

I believe that even if some people do bag and bin their waste that will help relieve the pressure on some elsan points and believe me if you have seen some of the totally disgusting state some of the overused, over busy, blocked points in and around London you would have to agree that anything is better than morons tipping their waste onto an obviously blocked disposal point.

You may not like the idea of composting your waste but there are people out there who think differently, it doesn't mean they are wrong any more than it means you are wrong. As boaters on the cut we should applaud anyone trying to make things better just as we should chastise those who do the opposite but be honest most men at least think nothing of a quick pee in the hedge (privacy permitting) on the way back from the pub rather than fill whatever tank we have on board.

•  

Edited August 21, 2018 by Clodi

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Clodi said:

A sea toilet

 

They don't have to be plumbed directly to exit into the sea - infact, if they do its a BSS failure - they can be diverted into a holding tank.

 

Is a closeable valve fitted in the discharge line of any toilet appliance or toilet holding tank with overboard discharge?

Check all toilets and toilet holding tanks for the presence of an overboard discharge line.
If present, check for the presence and condition of a closeable valve installed in the discharge line.

 

Examiner action – if toilet waste is determined to be escaping into the watercourse contact the BSS Office and
take the relevant actions described in Appendix B. If the arrangements inevitably result in toilet waste
discharging overboard contact the BSS Office

[rusty69]

29 minutes ago, Clodi said:

A sea toilet

AC toilet. Shocking idea! 

[Clodi]

They don't have to be plumbed directly to exit into the sea - infact, if they do its a BSS failure

Depends what system you're on

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Clodi said:

They don't have to be plumbed directly to exit into the sea - infact, if they do its a BSS failure

Depends what system you're on

 

If by 'system' you mean Navigation Authority, then my statement stands.

 

The BSS is a failure if the toilet discharges directly overboard.

What you maybe mean, is that not all Navigation Authorities require a BSS (and obviously it is not required on the Sea) - however several Mediterranean  countries have now introduced VERY severe financial penalties for any boat discharging both Grey and Black water within their territorial waters - that is why our boat is fitted with both Grey and Black water holding tanks

 

As stated below - In Turkey they have estimated (calculated) the daily production per person of black & grey water, if you stay x days in Turkish waters then you are expected to have your 'blue-card' stamped proving that you have 'landed' Y amount of black and Z amount of Grey water via their pump-out.

(Money making or what !!!!)

 

Three examples :

Spain

Spain has holding tank requirements which together with their pollution legislation, essentially mean that vessels cannot discharge untreated sewage within Spanish territorial waters (12 nautical miles). The Spanish legislation is ORDEN FOM/1144/2003, 28 April which for anyone who speaks Spanish can be found at www.fomento.es and an unofficial translation of the legislation is also available.

Greece

In Greece the regulations relating to discharges and pollution make a holding tank a practical necessity although we are not aware of them being a legal requirement as yet. Caution should also be exerted with grey water in Greece.

Turkey

Discharge of any kind may be considered illegal. A black water tank has therefore been a practical necessity in Turkey for many years. New rules have been coming into force in some areas of Turkey (such as the Mugla District) over the last few years which require vessels to carry a Blue Card. If the rules are enforced to the full all black and grey water will need to be collected and pumped out ashore; the Blue Card will be used to monitor the amount of waste water deposited ashore to ensure holding tanks are pumped out rather than emptied into the sea.  

Edited August 21, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Robbo]

1 hour ago, Clodi said:

A sea toilet

 

I'ts sad that you expect the worst in everyone. I've grown up with boats and around 'boat-type' people both here and abroad and yes , at sea ,everything gets chucked into the ocean but I like to think that we, as humans are starting to see the error of our ways and that if everyone just makes a bit of effort we can start to lead by example and clean up our act.

People have been pissing in the hedges and emptying cassettes into the cut long before the hysteria around composting toilets.

I believe that even if some people do bag and bin their waste that will help relieve the pressure on some elsan points and believe me if you have seen some of the totally disgusting state some of the overused, over busy, blocked points in and around London you would have to agree that anything is better than morons tipping their waste onto an obviously blocked disposal point.

You may not like the idea of composting your waste but there are people out there who think differently, it doesn't mean they are wrong any more than it means you are wrong. As boaters on the cut we should applaud anyone trying to make things better just as we should chastise those who do the opposite but be honest most men at least think nothing of a quick pee in the hedge (privacy permitting) on the way back from the pub rather than fill whatever tank we have on board.

•  

I don’t see the worst, it’s just what will happen.  As a boater my current system is already environmentally friendly and I don’t have to mess with buckets full of half composted sh*t or containers full of pee every other day to be “environmentally friendly”.

[Clodi]

I totally agree with you. However boats on the Great Ouse, Cam etc still have sea-toilets with no holding tanks & at sea of course anything goes. Have you ever followed a cruise-liner?.

In some ports and of course in marinas discharge overboard  is discouraged. I guess you know that many 'yotties' are also starting to use water-less toilet systems as, on many existing yachts there is no room for a dirty fluid tank. It's hard enough carrying fresh water for an extended journey. In the USA there are quite a few companies promoting 'Compost' toilets.

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, Athy said:

A different interpretation of the phrase "Widebeam owners".

Can't give you smiles so have these ?

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Both of our boats use 'external' water to flush, on the Cat, it is Sea Water, on the Cruiser it is River or Sea water.

They are called 'Sea-toilets' and therefore use zero precious 'clean' water.

 

Commonly fitted on GRP boats but I have never seen on fitted to a NB - maybe that would be a good environmentally friendly step forward ?

I know of one narrowboat that uses river water to flush with a holding tank so save pottable water.

[Clodi]

23 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Can't give you smiles so have these ?

I know of one narrowboat that uses river water to flush with a holding tank so save pottable water.

Nooooo, we run out of water the moment the sun comes out as it is ?

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, Clodi said:

Nooooo, we run out of water the moment the sun comes out as it is ?

We've run out of water. Hi and dry now the tides gone out. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by rusty69