Gardner Engine Forum

[Dartagnan]

From tomorrow I will be responsible for the care of a Gardner 3L2 engine in our NB.  I am about to join the Gardner engine forum but have seen  reference to a Gardner Owners Club.  I can find no trace of a Gardner Owners Club on the internet so am I right to assume they are one and the same?

The original engine was made in 1932 so is 2 years younger than my elderly father who remembers Gardner engines in busses and lorries around Manchester.  Any further suggestions for a bit of light reading (if there is such a thing lol) would be appreciated.

[Joe Bourke]

There's a Gardner Engine group on Facebook

[Dartagnan]

2 minutes ago, Joe Bourke said:

There's a Gardner Engine group on Facebook

Joe thank you for that information.  I have never had a Facebook account though I may now reconsider that decision for such matters.

[Athy]

Graham Edge's book 'L. Gardner & Sons: Legendary Engineering Excellence' gives a comprehensive illustrated history of the company and its products. As you might gather from the title, Mr. Edge is a wee bit partisan, so events such as the sometimes bitter relations between management and workforce at the Patricroft factory are glossed over, but there is plenty to enjoy.

[Joe Bourke]

4 minutes ago, Dartagnan said:

Joe thank you for that information.  I have never had a Facebook account though I may now reconsider that decision for such matters.

There are many interesting "boaty" groups on Facebook. The Gardner group has a lot of expertise on there, including some ex Gardner employees.

[Dartagnan]

3 minutes ago, Athy said:

Graham Edge's book 'L. Gardner & Sons: Legendary Engineering Excellence' gives a comprehensive illustrated history of the company and its products. As you might gather from the title, Mr. Edge is a wee bit partisan, so events such as the sometimes bitter relations between management and workforce at the Patricroft factory are glossed over, but there is plenty to enjoy.

Athy many thanks for that.  My father was in the textile business in Manchester before we moved to Ireland in the 60’s and when I mentioned the Gardner engine to him he said they were highly regarded engines back in the day.

[Athy]

37 minutes ago, Dartagnan said:

Athy many thanks for that.  My father was in the textile business in Manchester before we moved to Ireland in the 60’s and when I mentioned the Gardner engine to him he said they were highly regarded engines back in the day.

They had a reputation for reliability and longevity (I bet you're pleased to hear that) until the very end of the company's manufacturing life in the 1990s when they apparently panicked in the face of increasing competition and brought out some less than auspicious products.

Gardner Parts still exists but, as I understand it, no longer supports the L2 range .. Your first port of call if searching for parts could be Walsh's Engineering in Manchester, run by a couple of ex-Gardner employees. It was Walsh's who rebuilt my 2LW (and probably those of other forum members).

That book appears to be out of print, but a glance at the internet will reveal a number of copies for sale at prices ranging from reasonable to 'OW MOOCH?

Edited January 19, 2018 by Athy

[Joe Bourke]

Noddyboater on this forum has a 3L2 I think.

[Dartagnan]

26 minutes ago, Joe Bourke said:

There are many interesting "boaty" groups on Facebook. The Gardner group has a lot of expertise on there, including some ex Gardner employees.

I hope I don’t live to regret it but my daughter has just set up a Facebook account for me!  Once again thank you got the information.

[Split Pin]

Gardner Engine Forum was formed in 2001 by a group of enthusiasts all of whom were or still are narrowboat owners.
In its infancy it was supported by Gardner themselves and later Gardner Parts
Most of our members have narrowboats which by nature have the smaller engines fitted i.e 2-4Lw's and 2-4 L2's
The forum grew out of some Rallys organized by one of the founder members and has been holding rallies every two years since, normally in the Midland and Manchester Area.
We don't have many members in the South of the country.
On the website under publications can be found PDF copies of all the newsletters published.
We publish 2 newsletters per year so getting an answer to a query would take a long time.
If you want quick answers then this forum or the Gardner Diesel engine face book page (nothing to do with the forum) is the best place to ask.
We will be holding a rally this year to celebrate 150 years since the formation of L Gardner and Sons. It will take place on the 15th and 16th of September at Etruria.
If you can make it you would be most welcome, you don't have to be a member to attend, we are a friendly bunch who are happy to pass on our collective knowledge
Enjoy your engine, they are fine pieces of engineering.
Andrew no doubt had sourced an L2 manual and left it with boat, if not pm me.
As Athy commented , Graham Edges book is about as comprehensive a history of L Gardner and Sons, there is also "Gardner  A product History over 125 Years by James J Francis", copies available from the Anson Engine Museum. A much smaller book as as the title says it is about the different types of engine.

Steve (GEF Vice Chair and general goffer)

[Dartagnan]

1 hour ago, Split Pin said:

Gardner Engine Forum was formed in 2001 by a group of enthusiasts all of whom were or still are narrowboat owners.
In its infancy it was supported by Gardner themselves and later Gardner Parts
Most of our members have narrowboats which by nature have the smaller engines fitted i.e 2-4Lw's

Steve (GEF Vice Chair and general goffer)

Thank you for the comprehensive reply.  I have previously read some of the newsletters which I found both enjoyable and informative.  As soon as I get access to a printer the cheque for membership will be in the post.

Whilst I am no engineer I would have to agree and say they are a fine bit of craftsmanship.

[noddyboater]

4 hours ago, Joe Bourke said:

Noddyboater on this forum has a 3L2 I think.

Well remembered Joe, I do have a 3L2 and it is indeed a fine piece of engineering. In the 19 years I've owned it the only maintenance has been oil changes and a nip up on the timing chain. If I'm feeling energetic it'll start by hand on all but the really cold days, never misses a beat and is very frugal. A long day at canal speed uses around 2 gallons. 

As you've probably heard the 3 and 4 cylinder engines do get smokey after days of slow running and idling at locks etc. Been based on the Chesterfield mine gets a regular clear out on the Trent, the amount of crap left on the roof from the exhaust is quite impressive pushing a tide for an hour or two! 

[Dartagnan]

16 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

Well remembered Joe, I do have a 3L2 and it is indeed a fine piece of engineering. In the 19 years I've owned it the only maintenance has been oil changes and a nip up on the timing chain. If I'm feeling energetic it'll start by hand on all but the really cold days, never misses a beat and is very frugal. A long day at canal speed uses around 2 gallons. 

As you've probably heard the 3 and 4 cylinder engines do get smokey after days of slow running and idling at locks etc. Been based on the Chesterfield mine gets a regular clear out on the Trent, the amount of crap left on the roof from the exhaust is quite impressive pushing a tide for an hour or two! 

That sounds impressive and I am really looking forward to using mine.  I will only be about a days cruising or so away from the Thames at Brentford so would like to take on there.  The width of the Thames may be a good opportunity for some practice with a good flow of water over the rudder.

[Markinaboat]

Martin,

All of the paperwork I gave you at handover includes info on all of the above including copies of the Gardner Engine Forum magazine (or whatever it's called). I think the book they are referring to may well be the book I gave you as a pressie. You have the original workshop manual and parts catalogues including copies to keep the originals clean. Also, all of the original hand-written factory sign-off paperwork laminated (1931!) as well as the first refurb at Gardner in the 40's.

For the benefit of other posters here, Charles Mills has looked after this (Danny Williamson) 3L2 and the new owner has 3 x large boxes of spares incl. cylinder head, valves etc etc. Engine has done 1450 hours since it was rebuilt by Danny in 1999. Fuel pump/governor reworked last year by Walshes via Charles. There is a very comprehensive photo history of Danny's refurb which Charles used for his engine survey when we bought the boat in 2015 at 1150 hours on the clock.

 

Am missing Nellie already but practicalities (the feminine type) dictated our semi-trad Betarised replacement! I must admit, in the 135 miles and 200 lock trip back over xmas and the new year, I didn't miss breathing the smoke although I did of course miss the oh so sweet exhaust note 'du du dah, du du dah'. The Beta is quiet though so I have less of an excuse for not hearing my better half now ;-) 

[Joe Bourke]

Martin,

Danny Williamson is one of the regular contributors on the Facebook Gardner Group. He's just done a 4LK for Jonathan Wilson. 

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Joe Bourke said:

 

Danny Williamson is one of the regular contributors on the Facebook Gardner Group. He's just done a 4LK for Jonathan Wilson. 

It must be ten years since I first heard the words "Danny Williamson has retired now". Can he just not keep away from old engines?

[Dartagnan]

1 hour ago, Markinaboat said:

Martin,

All of the paperwork I gave you at handover includes info on all of the above including copies of the Gardner Engine Forum magazine (or whatever it's called). I think the book they are referring to may well be the book I gave you as a pressie. You have the original workshop manual and parts catalogues including copies to keep the originals clean. Also, all of the original hand-written factory sign-off paperwork laminated (1931!) as well as the first refurb at Gardner in the 40's.

For the benefit of other posters here, Charles Mills has looked after this (Danny Williamson) 3L2 and the new owner has 3 x large boxes of spares incl. cylinder head, valves etc etc. Engine has done 1450 hours since it was rebuilt by Danny in 1999. Fuel pump/governor reworked last year by Walshes via Charles. There is a very comprehensive photo history of Danny's refurb which Charles used for his engine survey when we bought the boat in 2015 at 1150 hours on the clock.

 

Am missing Nellie already but practicalities (the feminine type) dictated our semi-trad Betarised replacement! I must admit, in the 135 miles and 200 lock trip back over xmas and the new year, I didn't miss breathing the smoke although I did of course miss the oh so sweet exhaust note 'du du dah, du du dah'. The Beta is quiet though so I have less of an excuse for not hearing my better half now ;-) 

Hi Mark

When I saw all that material my eyes lit up and yes the pressie you gave me is indeed the one referred to by Athy.  I can’t wait to start looking at it all.  

How does one go from ‘having no real interest’ in vintage engines to not being able to get enough information?  The photos of both the boat build and engine build will be perused with real pleasure.

Thank you very much for the comprehensive handover on Saturday and for everything that you and Chrissy did on my behalf due to my health issues.  I’m truly grateful.  I will treasure the boat and try to maintain her to the very high standards that you have set.

Kind regards - Martin

 

15 minutes ago, Joe Bourke said:

Martin,

Danny Williamson is one of the regular contributors on the Facebook Gardner Group. He's just done a 4LK for Jonathan Wilson. 

Hi Joe

I did see that engine on Facebook.  As you can tell I did join the FB group

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, Dartagnan said:

 

How does one go from ‘having no real interest’ in vintage engines to not being able to get enough information?  

Oh, it's easy - I managed it years ago (when we bought our first n/b, which had a Petter PH2), though I am far from technically-minded, so I suppose I have more of a train-spotting sort of interest.

[Dartagnan]

3 minutes ago, Athy said:

Oh, it's easy - I managed it years ago (when we bought our first n/b, which had a Petter PH2), though I am far from technically-minded, so I suppose I have more of a train-spotting sort of interest.

I am most definitely not technically minded and my wife refers to my DIY as Destroy it yourself however that doesn’t stop me being able to appreciate quality and fine craftsmanship

[Markinaboat]

14 minutes ago, Dartagnan said:

I am most definitely not technically minded and my wife refers to my DIY as Destroy it yourself however that doesn’t stop me being able to appreciate quality and fine craftsmanship

LOL!!

32 minutes ago, Dartagnan said:

Hi Mark

When I saw all that material my eyes lit up and yes the pressie you gave me is indeed the one referred to by Athy.  I can’t wait to start looking at it all.  

How does one go from ‘having no real interest’ in vintage engines to not being able to get enough information?  The photos of both the boat build and engine build will be perused with real pleasure.

Thank you very much for the comprehensive handover on Saturday and for everything that you and Chrissy did on my behalf due to my health issues.  I’m truly grateful.  I will treasure the boat and try to maintain her to the very high standards that you have set.

Kind regards - Martin

 

Hi Joe

I did see that engine on Facebook.  As you can tell I did join the FB group

Twas our pleasure Martin!

[Joe Bourke]

53 minutes ago, Athy said:

It must be ten years since I first heard the words "Danny Williamson has retired now". Can he just not keep away from old engines?

He does keep busy. His tug Brodsworth is moored opposite me in Goole and he's here most weekends.

[Cloudinspector]

There are several sources for parts. 

http://gardnerspares.com/

https://www.marinepowerservices.co.uk/

http://www.gardnerdiesel.co.uk/index.html

 

 

[Movin' on]

Having just inherited a 2LW in our "new" boat this has all been very useful - Walsh's are already booked in to sort our unit on the 5th Feb.

Previous was a DM2 which I loved and cruised for 4000 hrs with no issues, and sometime ago prior to that a Kelvin P3 (good in use for us but I know not a good unit for many) 

I loved my old Perkins D3 which was glammed up and in an engine room great power and felt good whilst I saved up for the real thing.

Steve Gray at the Gardner Forum is brilliant as are all those who I have spoken to in the past week.

[noddyboater]

On 23/01/2018 at 15:40, Joe Bourke said:

He does keep busy. His tug Brodsworth is moored opposite me in Goole and he's here most weekends.

Has he had the old 8LW (yes, I did say 8!) fired up lately and gone for a cruise?  He looked to be welded to the bank last time I was there. Some excuses about 6' draught... 

[Joe Bourke]

46 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

Has he had the old 8LW (yes, I did say 8!) fired up lately and gone for a cruise?  He looked to be welded to the bank last time I was there. Some excuses about 6' draught... 

Yes he does fire it up now and again, just to go for diesel.