RCD cable requirements

[WotEver]

I'm pretty sure that someone (NMEA?) quoted one of the RCD ISOs as requiring tinned copper wire in the engine 'ole. I repeated this little nugget in another thread but no amount of Googling is helping me to find that guidance without trawling through every related reg, which isn't something I can do from home. 

So, can anyone confirm or deny the requirement? If confirmed, which ISO?

Thanks,

Tony

[Tony Brooks]

Well, its best practice for all marine work. I can well imagine Lloyds would have it as a requirement for salty water stuff.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Well, its best practice for all marine work. I can well imagine Lloyds would have it as a requirement for salty water stuff.

Yup, but is it proscribed as an RCD requirement? That's my question. 

[Murflynn]

no mention of tinning in the 2000 and 2001 editions of the respective ISOs for DC and AC wiring.   just 'stranded copper'.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

no mention of tinning in the 2000 and 2001 editions of the respective ISOs for DC and AC wiring.   just 'stranded copper'.

Then maybe I'm imagining it. Wouldn't be the first time...

Nothing specific about tri-rated either?

How about labelling?

[andyb116]

Best practice, not a requirement for inland waterways though, to use tri rated 2,5 cable.

hope this helps, Andy B  (BMEET).

[WotEver]

34 minutes ago, andyb116 said:

Best practice, not a requirement for inland waterways though, to use tri rated 2,5 cable.

hope this helps, Andy B  (BMEET).

Cheers Andy

[andyb116]

WotEver, if your bored and got a lot of spare time the ISO'S you need to look at is ISO 13297:2014 for AC & ISO 10133:2012 for DC

Andy B

Edited March 29, 2017 by andyb116

[WotEver]

20 minutes ago, andyb116 said:

WotEver, if your bored and got a lot of spare time the ISO'S you need to look at is ISO 13297:2014 for AC & ISO 10133:2012 for DC

Andy B

Cheers Andy. I'll do my Google best to find a way of peeking at them. I did once find a Russian site that had quite a few ISOs available. 

Tony

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I did once find a Russian site that had quite a few ISOs available

Is that the Russian 'acronym' for "Female looking for male" ?

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is that the Russian 'acronym' for "Female looking for male" ?

And her bff is a Nigerian prince. 

[Tony Brooks]

When I got the BMEA standards/codes around 2005 they definitely stated tinned cables should be used and I guess they were derived from a BS or ISO when they were written so maybe the ISO has changed.

[nicknorman]

11 hours ago, WotEver said:

Yup, but is it proscribed as an RCD requirement? That's my question. 

Proscribed means prohibited. Prescribed means mandated. Just sayin!

Anyway as far as I know tinned cable isn't prescribed. Have a look for the current version of the two standards at Manchester library online: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/162241/british_standards_online/category/1216/business_and_careers click the PDF icon at the right, not the "view details" link

Edited March 29, 2017 by nicknorman

[WotEver]

Just now, nicknorman said:

Proscribed means prohibited. Prescribed means mandated. Just sayin!

Oh yeah

[nicknorman]

So I had a look at the ac one, no mention of tri-rated or in fact any specific standard, just some requirements for insulation temperature rating, voltage rating and oil resistance in engine bay. Stranded of course, but doesn't mention tinning.

Edited March 29, 2017 by nicknorman

[NMEA]

Multi stranded cable (of the correct spec) is mandatory under NMEA, BMEA, RCD and ISOs for low voltage AC and extra low voltage DC, tinned is not mandatory but certainly best practise, the time I spend chasing green copper back to bright on both salt water and inland boats is enough to convince me of that, my stores contain miles of cable and its all tinned, the price premium is not so great when compared to good quality plain stranded copper. The major difficulty is sourcing European insulation colour three core for low voltage AC, but again none of the ISOs or RCD make it mandatory to use those colours, much better if you do though for obvious reasons, US colour is easily available but could confuse. An important point to remember is that these ISO docs are not stand alone, for instance in the extra low voltage ISO there are a further four Normative references to other ISO docs and a further fifteen in the bibliography, costs me a bloody fortune.

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by NMEA

[WotEver]

16 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Anyway as far as I know tinned cable isn't prescribed. Have a look for the current version of the two standards at Manchester library online: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/162241/british_standards_online/category/1216/business_and_careers

Great link, thanks

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, NMEA said:

The major difficulty is sourcing European insulation colour three core for low voltage AC

I presume you must mean tinned European insulation colour three core? Must admit I've never seen any. 

[WotEver]

10 minutes ago, NMEA said:

... the time I spend chasing green copper back to bright...

I recall an old motorbike I refurbed which appeared to have nothing but green copper. Eventually I gave up and created a new loom from scratch. Quite a satisfying project. 

[NMEA]

Just now, WotEver said:

I presume you must mean tinned European insulation colour three core? Must admit I've never seen any. 

Indeed I do, I have some left but it is not easily available, the simplest way to buy it is direct from Oceanflex (made in UK) but that is in considerable bulk, some heat resistant cable intended for immersion element supply is tinned but thats a lottery.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, NMEA said:

Indeed I do, I have some left but it is not easily available, the simplest way to buy it is direct from Oceanflex (made in UK) but that is in considerable bulk, some heat resistant cable intended for immersion element supply is tinned but thats a lottery.

Found some here but it ain't cheap: http://www.iem-services.co.uk/showdetails.asp?id=1336

D'oh! Wrong colours. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by WotEver
I'm a dummy

[WotEver]

 

8 minutes ago, NMEA said:

the simplest way to buy it is direct from Oceanflex (made in UK)

It appears that Cleveland supply it too, but silicone insulated as opposed to PVC or rubber  

http://www.clevelandcable.com/products/silicon-flexible-cable-vde-0250-pt816-075mm-25mm-p/

[rjasmith]

Really good to see a few more folks using the Manchester City Library link to access BSOL to read ISO and BS standards!!

I'm pretty sure it was me that was the first Canalworlder to find that MCL were one of the last remaining libraries that still subsidised this arrangement, and better still, allowed free access for all ALL UK residents! Since finding them 2 or 3 years ago I've mentioned it on here as much as I can. The more of us that use their facility (which presumably their website managers will be recording somewhere) must help to try to prevent MCL dropping the facility to save costs.

Over time I've been a member of Surrey Libraries, West Sussex Libraries, Hampshire libraries and finally Cambridgeshire Libraries (don't ask how I swung that one as I don't live close enough to Cambridgeshire really, however a certain Moomin of this parish was able to help me!).

One by one the above County libraries responded to austerity cuts by dropping their BSOL link licence which caused me to have to move to the next. In the end I tried nearly every other UK County but the problem of non county residence  (I live in W Sussex) always got in the way until I found that MCL didn't require it!

Another advantage of looking at Stds via BSOL is that you can see ALL issues of them until they are withdrawn. Also you can peruse new draft issues so that a new change being considered may not come as such a surprise! This is rather better than just Googling for the Std number, finding it on a Far East etc website but not knowing whether it has become out of date. 

Don't forget that another (cheap but not free) way to read an individual Std on paper is to order a loan copy using an Inter Library loan from the British Library. This will cost a few quid per item when arranged via your local library. While you have this copy you must be careful not to infringe copyright law.

Richard

 

    

[NMEA]

On 29/03/2017 at 08:54, WotEver said:

 

It appears that Cleveland supply it too, but silicone insulated as opposed to PVC or rubber  

http://www.clevelandcable.com/products/silicon-flexible-cable-vde-0250-pt816-075mm-25mm-p/

Here you go, available in retail quantity here https://www.edwardes.co.uk/en/categories/2-5mm-3183tq-butyl-rubber-heat-resistant--24-amps-maximum- Low voltage AC is obviously less affected by voltage drop caused by corrosion resistance than extra low voltage DC but I still think it is the right stuff to use on a boat.

[Eeyore]

Interesting that there has been no mention low smoke zero halogen LSZH (sometimes called low smoke halogen free LSHF) cable types. Thought the boat safety scheme would have something on the subject; or have I missed it (again).