garyslaw Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 Hey can anybody give me a wee bit of advice on my install i took some pics on the first pic. Can u tell me how i insulate where the cables are. Oh and do i need to cut for that mushroom vent second pic. Anybody know what these blocks on the roof are for? Can i take em off to make it easier to celotex? lastly is it safe to insulate around the 12v and 240 sockets. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W+T Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) 1 I would just cut the boards to fit to the wiring, then use expanding foam around the wires. Or fit he wires before hand in conduit then fill the cavity with foam. 2 just remove them 3 fine to celotex around the sockets. oh and cut the mushroom when the celotex is in place Edited March 24, 2017 by W+T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasputin Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 Firsty, I wouldn't use household wiring on a boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasputin Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 second, I wouldnt use expanding foam on a boat, conduit is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 That wiring looks like domestic twin and earth. Those blocks look to me as if they are there to give extra thickness for handrails to be screwed into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayke Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 27 minutes ago, David Mack said: That wiring looks like domestic twin and earth. It also looks like it could be single stranded so will not pass comply with the BSC, I’m sure one of the experts will be along soon to confirm or deny this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 5 hours ago, F DRAYKE said: It also looks like it could be single stranded so will not pass comply with the BSC, I’m sure one of the experts will be along soon to confirm or deny this. It's not a BSS requirement that all cable should be multi-strand but it should be. Using domestic twin & earth on a boat is a really bad idea. 6 hours ago, David Mack said: Those blocks look to me as if they are there to give extra thickness for handrails to be screwed into. Agreed. Check above the roof - is there anything where those blocks are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 6 hours ago, rasputin said: second, I wouldnt use expanding foam on a boat, conduit is your friend. Nothing wrong with expanding foam on a boat. Yes, the cables should really be in conduit, apart from anything else it conforms to the BSS requirement that cables must be fully supported throughout their length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stegra Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 2 hours ago, WotEver said: Nothing wrong with expanding foam on a boat. I agree but consider using the fire-rated stuff. Put a match to a bit of cured foam and you'll see why. Gun-grade is far better than hand-held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W+T Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 3 hours ago, stegra said: I agree but consider using the fire-rated stuff. Put a match to a bit of cured foam and you'll see why. Gun-grade is far better than hand-held. Thats easy solved then, dont put a match to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Polyurethane foams when burning give off toxic fumes including (I think) cyanide, so it's the fumes that kill you not the heat and flame. So I would always use the fire retarded foam inside a boat. The fire rated stuff from cans is normally a pink foam, unlike the cheaper stuff that is a pale yellow. So it would be very wise to use the fire rated stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterDHS Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 I've been told that it is bad practise to use foam anywhere near cables as it 'eats' the cable insulation and makes it brittle. iId also change that cable for multistrand while you still have access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Expanded Polystyrene insulation sheets will make PVC cable insulation crumble where they touch together. Best keep them apart. Polyurethane foam is - I think - safe to use with PVC cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 59 minutes ago, Chewbacka said: Expanded Polystyrene insulation sheets will make PVC cable insulation crumble where they touch together. Best keep them apart. Polyurethane foam is - I think - safe to use with PVC cables. That is my understanding, yes. OP will have bigger problems that losing plasticisers from that twin & earth though if he doesn't change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Agree that Twin & earth is a bad idea as it is solid strand and will crack but ALSO presumably the op is using it for both 12v AND 240v circuits which is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyslaw Posted March 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 19 hours ago, rasputin said: Firsty, I wouldn't use household wiring on a boat 19 hours ago, David Mack said: That wiring looks like domestic twin and earth. Those blocks look to me as if they are there to give extra thickness for handrails to be screwed into. 13 hours ago, WotEver said: It's not a BSS requirement that all cable should be multi-strand but it should be. Using domestic twin & earth on a boat is a really bad idea. Agreed. Check above the roof - is there anything where those blocks are? 3 hours ago, PeterDHS said: I've been told that it is bad practise to use foam anywhere near cables as it 'eats' the cable insulation and makes it brittle. iId also change that cable for multistrand while you still have access. 2 hours ago, WotEver said: That is my understanding, yes. OP will have bigger problems that losing plasticisers from that twin & earth though if he doesn't change it. 56 minutes ago, Chewbacka said: Agree that Twin & earth is a bad idea as it is solid strand and will crack but ALSO presumably the op is using it for both 12v AND 240v circuits which is a bad idea. Thanks everybody for the information. As always i am left in panic. Was just wanting to change the old wool insulation for celotex and find all the leaks and draughts and now i am worried about the electrics. Whats worst case scenareo as it passed the BSS almost 4 years ago. Is to be done again in September. I just bought the boat about 8 months ago. Maybe i put back the wool on the section with all the cables and put some conduet around whilst i am there? I am going to put more pics of the electrics to get a better idea of issues. from what i can see. Under the windows on port side runs 3 cables (black, red and a thin white) havr not ripped apart starboard side but there is at least 2 cables that i see which are thick grey ones tunning along the floor. Looks like they run to a 240v socket. as you can see i have no idea about this kind of thing. So if you could be specific with what i should do that would be great. Also, since we are here. In the pic of the ceiling there are some goldish thin cables that hook up to some speakers in the livingroom ceiling. They dont hook up to anything. Anybody know if it can be hooked up to a stereo, bluetooth system, maybe it needs an amp. Any info would be great Oh theres is nothing on the roof regarding those blocks. So i will probably take rm off. thanks again guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyslaw Posted March 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasputin Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 The major problem with that stuff is that the wires are solid copper under that insulation, it;s 0k in a house because a house dosnt move, but in a car or a boat it is prone to fracture. better to replace it while it is exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Is it a wooden roof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasputin Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) The best I can say is that wiring looks poor, i hope those chock blocks are in the 12v system Edited March 25, 2017 by rasputin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyslaw Posted March 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Is it a wooden roof? Is fibreglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 hour ago, garyslaw said: as you can see i have no idea about this kind of thing. So if you could be specific with what i should do that would be great. See the yellow, blue and red mains cables in shots 2 & 3? That is 2.5mm 3 core flex and is what should be used throughout. All those grey mains cables should be replaced with flex. That help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyslaw Posted March 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 57 minutes ago, rasputin said: The best I can say is that wiring looks poor, i hope those chock blocks are in the 12v system Yeah it does look poor.Infortunetly my finances are a bit poor too so will have to leave it for 8 weeks. I dont know what chock blocks are. 4 minutes ago, WotEver said: See the yellow, blue and red mains cables in shots 2 & 3? That is 2.5mm 3 core flex and is what should be used throughout. All those grey mains cables should be replaced with flex. That help? Thanks for that. Sounds like a big job. Will make sure that is done when i get the electrician in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 minute ago, garyslaw said: I dont know what chock blocks are. Those junction blocks with three wires in one side and three on the other side, secured by grub screws. They look a bit like blocks of chocolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jddevel Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 I will add my two pennyworth regarding insulation and ducting and electric cabling. A requisite of house building regulations is/was that electric cabling should be allowed for any heat they may produce to readily dissipate. Especially any cabling that may take heavy loads. In fact at one time it was advised a 50mm clearance around any cable although this seems to not be followed by many "qualified" electricians work I`ve seen so perhaps it is only now considered an advisory and I was mis-informed. The advantage of ducting is access for change and possible additions and that opportunity to potentially remain cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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