Total Newbie (Not even got a boat yet)

[nicknorman]

 

Hi Nick

 

If you read my earlier post you can see I actualy tried to pay it over twenty years ago and was told I couldnt. Its not me who states my boat is not my home but you will find the government usualy classes boat dwellers as homeless..........quite a joke realy as my boat is comfier than many houses I have been in and mooooocho nicer to live in and why do you think ccers SHOULD pay council tax? I pay all taxes I am supposed to pay as do most other people why would I want to pay a tax I am not required to pay?

 

I think CCers SHOULD pay council tax because they use many of the services that are paid for by it. I suppose the most costly of those is probably schooling. Then there is the upkeep of the local roads and street lighting, libraries, and general amenities of a town. I think the CT also goes to the Social Services budget which is a pretty costly one.

 

You may or may not use any or all of these services a lot or a little, but you will use them to some extent. If I tried to argue that my house council tax should be reduced simply because I have never had any kids in school, don't use the library etc, I think I would get short shrift. The point is that they are available for you to use if you wish.

 

But I absolutely get the point that you can't pay council tax even if you wanted to.

[dmr]

Well said. I have no beef with CCers as there is no mechanism for them to pay CT. But people who liveaboard on leisure moorings with the connivance of their marinas are tax cheats and deserve to be called to account.

 

They are not cheats because they are obeying the law of the land that states you only pay council tax on a fixed residence with an address.

If they paid council tax by making a voluntary donation they might be criminals because they would be pretending to have an address. Lock em up I say.

 

I do agree with Nick that CCers morally should pay a reduced council tax but it cant be done because council tax is a bad tax. Should house dwellers pay a tax when they go on holiday and use local services?

 

Oh my god please can we talk about batteries again.

 

................Dave

[mrsmelly]

 

They are not cheats because they are obeying the law of the land that states you only pay council tax on a fixed residence with an address.

If they paid council tax by making a voluntary donation they might be criminals because they would be pretending to have an address. Lock em up I say.

 

I do agree with Nick that CCers morally should pay a reduced council tax but it cant be done because council tax is a bad tax. Should house dwellers pay a tax when they go on holiday and use local services?

 

Oh my god please can we talk about batteries again.

 

................Dave

 

Batteries.............BATTERIES .............I like Batteries..........How about Bogs

[dmr]

 

Batteries.............BATTERIES .............I like Batteries..........How about Bogs

 

My pump out tank is a bit full, I usually empty every 4 weeks, it can go 6 but I like to leave a nice safety margin.

In the winter I need to be extra careful in case of getting frozen in. Trouble is I am on a lovely lovely mooring (48 hours VM extended to 14 days in winter).

Out of one side hatch I can see the Wiltshire Hills with lovely convolutions that catch the morning sun, and there is even a white horse cut into the hill side.

From the other side its a view of the iconic Barge Inn built of stone and just 70 yards from the boat, a gentle stagger.

If I stay the full 14 days the tank will be almost full.

What shall I do?

 

.................Dave

[mross]

Poop in the pub?

[mrsmelly]

 

My pump out tank is a bit full, I usually empty every 4 weeks, it can go 6 but I like to leave a nice safety margin.

In the winter I need to be extra careful in case of getting frozen in. Trouble is I am on a lovely lovely mooring (48 hours VM extended to 14 days in winter).

Out of one side hatch I can see the Wiltshire Hills with lovely convolutions that catch the morning sun, and there is even a white horse cut into the hill side.

From the other side its a view of the iconic Barge Inn built of stone and just 70 yards from the boat, a gentle stagger.

If I stay the full 14 days the tank will be almost full.

What shall I do?

 

.................Dave

 

14 days..................I think you should find who the local council is and offer to pay council tax..........

[Wookiee]

Hi folks........Nope I've not buggered off shaking my head :-) Amongst all the posts there have been points raised which I need to clarify, so thanks to all that have contributed to my post. I plan on visiting the local marina where the 33ft'er is moored and listed for sale and find out from them directly with regards to obtaining the mooring, whether I need to move off after a period of time and so on & will also check the council tax status as this may be something else I need to consider. Again the posts that people have put up have highlighted things which I hadn't thought about and I will need to know where I stand before moving much further with this.

On a side note I visited my big sister who lives local and she mentioned that a chap in her team lived on a canal boat not far from where I live so she's going to ask if I can pay him a visit on his boat and ask some questions, get a feel of being on a boat and so on.

Someone has mentioned about maintenance, valid point for sure. I spent many years repairing old VW Beetles (flat 4 aircooled type), along with Mini's and old Fords. I have done plumbing jobs at home, recently re-wired a caravan from scratch and done my own maintenance on the motorcycles I've owned over the last few years. I wouldn't say I'm an expert mechanic but I know my way around different engines and happy to get the tools out when required. I'm also doing a City & Guilds in Welding (up to level 2 in MIG, TIG, MMA, I've just done my level 1 in Oxy Gas & MIG). Maybe this will come in handy with any future repairs to my boat :-)

Thanks again to everyone that has posted, there seems to be some areas that are unclear so I guess the bets thing to do is to visit the local Marina's and see what their rules & regs are.

[dmr]

Poop in the pub?

 

No lunch time opening in winter (except Sundays) and I usually get the urge first thing in the morning. If I was lucky enough to have a cassette bog I could take it to the pub with me to empty.

 

ooooh 8 o'clock, better go and turn engine off, hope the BATTERIES are charged.

 

..................Dave

[mrsmelly]

 

No lunch time opening in winter (except Sundays) and I usually get the urge first thing in the morning. If I was lucky enough to have a cassette bog I could take it to the pub with me to empty.

 

ooooh 8 o'clock, better go and turn engine off, hope the BATTERIES are charged.

 

..................Dave

 

STOP SAYIN BATTERIES............................

[mross]

Hi folks........Nope I've not buggered off shaking my head :-) Amongst all the posts there have been points raised which I need to clarify, so thanks to all that have contributed to my post. I plan on visiting the local marina where the 33ft'er is moored and listed for sale and find out from them directly with regards to obtaining the mooring, whether I need to move off after a period of time and so on & will also check the council tax status as this may be something else I need to consider. Again the posts that people have put up have highlighted things which I hadn't thought about and I will need to know where I stand before moving much further with this.

 

On a side note I visited my big sister who lives local and she mentioned that a chap in her team lived on a canal boat not far from where I live so she's going to ask if I can pay him a visit on his boat and ask some questions, get a feel of being on a boat and so on.

 

Someone has mentioned about maintenance, valid point for sure. I spent many years repairing old VW Beetles (flat 4 aircooled type), along with Mini's and old Fords. I have done plumbing jobs at home, recently re-wired a caravan from scratch and done my own maintenance on the motorcycles I've owned over the last few years. I wouldn't say I'm an expert mechanic but I know my way around different engines and happy to get the tools out when required. I'm also doing a City & Guilds in Welding (up to level 2 in MIG, TIG, MMA, I've just done my level 1 in Oxy Gas & MIG). Maybe this will come in handy with any future repairs to my boat :-)

 

Thanks again to everyone that has posted, there seems to be some areas that are unclear so I guess the bets thing to do is to visit the local Marina's and see what their rules & regs are.

Yes, and please come here every day if you can, to answer our questions and to post new ones. We love it when posters actually engage. Some people post and never return which can be a bit frustrating!

[mrsmelly]

Yes, and please come here every day if you can, to answer our questions and to post new ones. We love it when posters actually engage. Some people post and never return which can be a bit frustrating!

 

Seconded.

[Wookiee]

Yes, and please come here every day if you can, to answer our questions and to post new ones. We love it when posters actually engage. Some people post and never return which can be a bit frustrating!

No worries, happy to post where I'm at with this. Took a walk along the towpath of the Grand Union today looking at boats, it was a miserable afternoon with the weather but not put off by the elements. Always had admiration for people that live on the water, was hoping to talk to someone but everyone was rightly inside their boats in the warm and dry :-)

[dmr]

Hi folks........Nope I've not buggered off shaking my head :-) Amongst all the posts there have been points raised which I need to clarify, so thanks to all that have contributed to my post. I plan on visiting the local marina where the 33ft'er is moored and listed for sale and find out from them directly with regards to obtaining the mooring, whether I need to move off after a period of time and so on & will also check the council tax status as this may be something else I need to consider. Again the posts that people have put up have highlighted things which I hadn't thought about and I will need to know where I stand before moving much further with this.

 

On a side note I visited my big sister who lives local and she mentioned that a chap in her team lived on a canal boat not far from where I live so she's going to ask if I can pay him a visit on his boat and ask some questions, get a feel of being on a boat and so on.

 

Someone has mentioned about maintenance, valid point for sure. I spent many years repairing old VW Beetles (flat 4 aircooled type), along with Mini's and old Fords. I have done plumbing jobs at home, recently re-wired a caravan from scratch and done my own maintenance on the motorcycles I've owned over the last few years. I wouldn't say I'm an expert mechanic but I know my way around different engines and happy to get the tools out when required. I'm also doing a City & Guilds in Welding (up to level 2 in MIG, TIG, MMA, I've just done my level 1 in Oxy Gas & MIG). Maybe this will come in handy with any future repairs to my boat :-)

 

Thanks again to everyone that has posted, there seems to be some areas that are unclear so I guess the bets thing to do is to visit the local Marina's and see what their rules & regs are.

 

That flat 4 is a lovely engine (I was a camper rather than beetle nut) but you are going to have to learn to love in-line diesels, though you can choose between 2 3 or 4 cylinders.

 

Lots of older boats still have the BMC diesel which is essential a B series which itself is just a big A series. but we really don't do transverse in boats.

 

33 foot is a bit short for living on, especially as there will likely be new partners in the future, and once you have tasted boat life you probably won't want to go back to the land.

 

50 plus is a better choice though I prefer 70.

 

visit marinas in person rather than phoning, don't say residential, just say you would like to spend a lot of time on the boat.

 

...............Dave

[Wookiee]

 

That flat 4 is a lovely engine (I was a camper rather than beetle nut) but you are going to have to learn to love in-line diesels, though you can choose between 2 3 or 4 cylinders.

 

Lots of older boats still have the BMC diesel which is essential a B series which itself is just a big A series. but we really don't do transverse in boats.

 

33 foot is a bit short for living on, especially as there will likely be new partners in the future, and once you have tasted boat life you probably won't want to go back to the land.

 

50 plus is a better choice though I prefer 70.

 

visit marinas in person rather than phoning, don't say residential, just say you would like to spend a lot of time on the boat.

 

...............Dave

Cheers Dave :-)

[Tacet]

 

I think CCers SHOULD pay council tax because they use many of the services that are paid for by it. I suppose the most costly of those is probably schooling. Then there is the upkeep of the local roads and street lighting, libraries, and general amenities of a town. I think the CT also goes to the Social Services budget which is a pretty costly one.

 

You may or may not use any or all of these services a lot or a little, but you will use them to some extent. If I tried to argue that my house council tax should be reduced simply because I have never had any kids in school, don't use the library etc, I think I would get short shrift. The point is that they are available for you to use if you wish.

 

 

 

So, should everyone be paying Capital Gains Tax (even if there is no capital gain), Inheritance Tax (with no inheritance), Business Rates (although no interest in business premises), National Insurance, Corporation Tax, Income Tax and all the others to? The income from these pays for services that are generally available.

 

Council tax is a liability on the occupation (and sometimes ownership) of a dwelling hereditament. And a floating boat is not a hereditament. That may or may not be fair, but few of us offer to pay taxes for which we are not liable

[nicknorman]

So, should everyone be paying Capital Gains Tax (even if there is no capital gain), Inheritance Tax (with no inheritance), Business Rates (although no interest in business premises), National Insurance, Corporation Tax, Income Tax and all the others to? The income from these pays for services that are generally available.

 

Council tax is a liability on the occupation (and sometimes ownership) of a dwelling hereditament. And a floating boat is not a hereditament. That may or may not be fair, but few of us offer to pay taxes for which we are not liable

Well firstly your logic is flawed. You should pay CGT, IHT, business rates where there are gains, inheritance, a business in profit. Obviously. By your use of "to"(sic, aka "too"!) your first para resembles the "when did you stop beating your wife" kind of question. The income from those sources does pay for services generally available but that is the nature of our tax system, those with greater gains / income pay a larger proportion even though their usage of said services may well be the same as someone paying a lot less. I think it might be called "socialism".

 

I am not particularly familiar with the term "dwelling hereditament" and sometimes phrases have a specific meaning in law, but a dwelling - well I think we know what that is. And hereditament simply means something that can be inherited. A boat can be both a dwelling and can be inherited so I don't immediately see why your point should be valid. The fact that some residential moorers are liable to and do pay council tax rather suggests that your point is invalid.

[Graham Davis]

 

Is English your mother tongue?

 

One of them, yes.

[Trillian]

I would recommend finding a boat with a permanent bed. I share a 40 foot boat very happily with my husband and am glad it has a bed, the 'novelty' of making a bed up every night and unmaking it in the morning would very quickly wear off I think.

[Wookiee]

Paid a visit to the local marina where this little boat is for sale, very friendly chap who spoke with me that runs the place. He said I can be moored up all year and not leave the marina if I didn't want to, went through all the costs involved such as mooring fees, license, cost of diesel/gas etc so have a clearer idea now of what's involved. Had a good look around the little boat, which was nicely fitted out inside and seemed to have been well cared for (current owner had lived on it for a few years and has moved onto a bigger boat). On reflection I would prefer something a bit bigger as my daughter would be staying with me for between 2 - 5 nights/days a week so a little more space on board would be better, if it was just myself I'd probably go for it. The chap I spoke with said that 2 more boats were going to be available in the coming months, a 44ft and a 50ft. So he said I'm welcome to call back anytime if i have further questions or want to see if any other boats are available to buy.

Feeling a lot more certain now that I know I can stay all year round, the mooring fees, license, fuel, electric will still work out quite a bit less than the house I'm in and I should be in a position to buy outright and have some money to keep aside towards any future work that might be needed.
It was a miserable day, drizzle and cold but I couldn't help but grin whilst being on that little boat, enjoying the moment. Certainly feels like the way forward.

[dmr]

The 50 footer sounds better as long as its a good boat.

But do take care, you will have NO security, a wobble from the owner, a complaint from a miserable and jealous land based neighbour, or unwelcome attention from the local council, could result in eviction at very short notice. You need to have a plan B.

Daughters, even those that are 100% boat trained, do need a bit of space and privacy at times.

 

.............Dave

[haza]

helmits on .i have a reso mooring .i pay c/t .i also agree with lulufish .i have also stayed in marinas as a live aboard and i have never had a problem with staying on the boat .i am also aware there are marinas that do have little rules that must be upheld ...but i would think there is a commador with is hat on calling the odds , or a chairman who thinks he is running the imf ...instead of a marina ...i have no wish to fall out with anyone .on this subject .thats my thoughts on this for whats it worth ...and as for grammer dyslexia does not help

[mross]

helmits on .i have a reso mooring .i pay c/t .i also agree with lulufish .i have also stayed in marinas as a live aboard and i have never had a problem with staying on the boat .i am also aware there are marinas that do have little rules that must be upheld ...but i would think there is a commador with is hat on calling the odds , or a chairman who thinks he is running the imf ...instead of a marina ...i have no wish to fall out with anyone .on this subject .thats my thoughts on this for whats it worth ...and as for grammer dyslexia does not help

Your writing is very clear and to the point - above average, I would say!

[alan_fincher]

Er, Gardners don't go wrong, do they?

 

Have a chat with paddyr of this forum!

Edited January 31, 2017 by alan_fincher

[Athy]

 

Have a chat with paddyr of this forum!

My query was tongue-in-cheek, Alan! Though they do, to the best of my knowledge, have a good reputation for reliability, I do recall from stories on here that when they go "boing" they can do so an a thorough and expensive fashion.

[mrsmelly]

My query was tongue-in-cheek, Alan! Though they do, to the best of my knowledge, have a good reputation for reliability, I do recall from stories on here that when they go "boing" they can do so an a thorough and expensive fashion.

 

As with cars.........there is only one country that makes completely reliable engines and its called Japan.