Opinions plea

[Hogwash]

Hello boat people,

 

I would like some advice please about G R P boats. Basically things are going pretty bad for me at the moment as I have been unemployed for nearly 2 years now, and the prospect of getting a job are low because I'm ashamed to admit that I have criminal record which will not be spent for another 2 years. So I have had loads of interviews but no offers.

 

I thought I would give you a bit of background so u wouldn't think that I was losing the plot.

 

As it stands the debt collectors are a pain, and my mortgage company are threatening to kick me out of my home. I have to getting things moving more for my own sanity than anything else. The problem is I want to sell my house by Auction, but my home will have to be empty and I only have about £5500 in borrowed cash from my dad. The only boats I have seen in this price range are the fiberglass GRP type. As I don't have much cash I cannot really afford a survey. I know I know, stupidity. But I don't have the cash right now until house sold and debts settled. Are GRP boats a safer option because they are not metal and will not rot? So will stay afloat with less upkeep. I'm only looking at living on the boat until house sells, if I like the boat life I can then by a narrow boat later on.

 

Thanks for reading

 

Hogwash

[hounddog]

Buy a GRP, buy wisely, when you're ready for another boat you will be able to sell it for more-or-less what you paid for it. Buy a tired one and put some value in it you'll get more than you paid for it.

[Hogwash]

Thanks hounddog.

[rusty69]

If I was buying without a survey, I would much prefer to chance it on GRP (in fact I have), although they can suffer from osmosis.

Edited November 11, 2016 by rusty69

[Hogwash]

Thanks Rusty.

[Naughty Cal]

Just bear in mind that in your price range you are buying someone elses to do list.

 

As the value of the boat goes down then the cost of servicing and maintainence becomes more percentage wise against the value of the boat which can lead some owners to skimp a little. Make sure the seller can provide receipts for maintenance carried out in recent years.

 

Most of the value in a £5k boat is in the engine and drive gear. Make sure it has been well looked after.

[Hogwash]

Thank you for the advice cal

[Murflynn]

If I was buying without a survey, I would much prefer to chance it on GRP (in fact I have), although they can suffer from osmosis.

which is not necessarily a serious problem for a static boat or a boat restricted to use on inland waterways; in fact if you see evidence of osmosis when buying, you can use it to bargain with.

[Alan de Enfield]

I 'hear' your plight and desire to 'start again' - however, unless you have experience of boating then I would suggest that you may well be jumping from the Fat into the fire.

 

You will need somewhere to moor the boat - that will be £1000s.

You are entering the 'worst time of the year' (weather wise) particularly trying to live in a £3000 GRP boat (all that's left after you have paid your mooring fees)

The boat will be uninsulated and you will struggle to heat it, it is unlikely that a £3000 boat will have much in the way of heating.

Do you realise that you will have to fill up the water tank, fetch gas bottles, empty the toilet system - there is no 'utilities connected' for a boat.

A £3000 boat will / maybe / possibly / probably have an outboard engine, this is no use for providing hot water or charging batteries.

 

We have two GRP boats and much work and cost has gone into insulating them and installing heating systems, you would be OK living aboard in Summer, but in Winter you are going to need heat, hot water and electricity.

 

Take your £5000 and rent a 'static caravan' (with heating, toilet connected to the 'mains', running water, hot water, shower,) for 6 or 12 months until your house sells - you may have 'lost your £5000' but you will be alive and kicking and ready to start again with your house sale proceeds.

[Hogwash]

Thank you Allen, I do have some experience with a narrow boat as an ex girlfriend had one as a pleasure boat and we would spend a lot of time aboard. I understand about the caravan, but I want to be able to move to a different area as and when I please until I find d were I want to stay put.

[Alan de Enfield]

Thank you Allen, I do have some experience with a narrow boat as an ex girlfriend had one as a pleasure boat and we would spend a lot of time aboard. I understand about the caravan, but I want to be able to move to a different area as and when I please until I find d were I want to stay put.

 

Fair point - but there is a bit of difficulty in moving around during the Winter due to closures on the canals, as Winter is the time that C&RT does its maintenance.

 

I was (obviously incorrectly) working on the assumption that as you are unemployed you would be 'signing on' on a regular basis and would be required to go for interviews etc.

This would obviously be difficult if you are moving about.

 

Good luck which ever way you 'go'

[Hogwash]

Oh, I never thought of that Allen. Thank you for your input, I will need to think more deeply about my next move in life will be.

[magictime]

Just wondering what the DWP's requirements are in terms of a home address if you are claiming benefits? If you need a proper residential address, you might need a proper residential mooring, which are expensive and hard to find in many areas. Otherwise you could think about continuously cruising, depending on how tied you are to a particular area (and what range of cruising is possible in that area).

 

In any case, I think you'd be lucky to find a cheap GRP boat that was liveable-on in winter; they generally don't have that sort of heating and insulation in place. It'd be something to consider if you could hang on for a few months, I guess.

[Sea Dog]

Hogwash, I appreciate you're looking for good news right now and I hesitate to bring you anything which might not cheer you up when you most need it. However, if you have problems at the moment, just wait until you buy a cheap boat!

 

Alan has provided some wise counsel above re GRP boats in winter and some other issues. Whilst winter on a well set up Narrowboat is certainly not an unpleasant experience, you can read on here the trials and tribulations of those wintering in less well appointed vessels. A GRP boat is, imho, in a different league and, though some may manage just fine, they're pretty hard core in my book. You will, almost certainly, have mechanical or other issues to deal with, some of which have been highlighted above, and most will cost far more than you'll expect. On top of those, if you're hoping to be able to move around as much or as little as you want and ultimately stay put somewhere you like, you're quite likely to appear on the CRT enforcement radar which would, at best, mean hassle.

 

My advice would be not to get involved with boats until you're on more solid ground (no pun intended). If you really love boats and simply can't resist the pull of the waterways, however, at least you've found a good place for advice. You might also try the thunderboat forum to where many of our wise owls have flown for the winter.

 

I hope that's helpful and I wish you well.

[waterwitch]

What a great thread. CWF at it's very best.

[Hogwash]

Thank you all for your friendly advice and information.

 

I see now that it is not straight forward and could be loads of hassle. The DWP would still pay JSA to me but I would be classed as no fixed abode. I foolishly thought that I could move the boat as CCer, say every 11 days to another parish. Here in Yorkshire one does not need to go too far to be in another area classed as a different county, for example...Midfield comes under Kirklees, Halifax under calderdale and Skipton under Bradford. After that one enters Lancashire.I would only be about 15 miles from the job centre I use at the most, Rochdale in Lancashire is only 15 miles from where I live. So I was thinking area-A 11 days stay, area-B 10 days stay, area-C 12 days, area-D 5 days and then back to area A.

 

I was thinking that if I got the boat and pay license keep moving the river trust would leave me alone. For heating I could use one of those heaters that take the gas bottle in the back, I am hardy I don't have heating on in my house because I can not afford it.

 

I can do loads of jobs myself on the boat including engine service and repairs.

 

When I said about staying put, I meant if I found a job say in Lancashire, I would then look for a residential mooring.

[Alan de Enfield]

. For heating I could use one of those heaters that take the gas bottle in the back, I am hardy I don't have heating on in my house because I can not afford it.

 

 

 

That would be a HUGE mistake.

Burning gas produces 1kg of water vapour for every kg of gas burnt (sounds impossible - check on google).

 

For every gas bottle used you would be putting 15kg of water into your boat - it would not take long to have green, mouldy clothes and bedding.

 

The second and more serious reason is the possibilty of Carbon Monoxide being produced, and with no external vent it would just escape straight into your living area.

Read the thread on "Carbon Monoxide Emergency"

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=88416&hl=

 

You can also research recent boat deaths due to CO poisoning ( 2 recent examples :Lake district and Norfolk Broads)

 

Thirdly - having a portable heating appliance in your boat is not allowed under the BSS (Boat Safety Scheme) rules - it would also probably invalidate your insurance.

Without insurance or a valid BSS, your boat is no longer licenced & C&RT could demand you leave the waterways.

 

This boating 'game' is not just a 'cheap & easy' way of living, or 'escaping the bricks & mortar' rat race. It needs comprehensive planning and knowledge to be able 'do it' safely and properly.

 

Edit for adnvanced spooling erurs

Edited November 12, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Hogwash]

Thanks again Allen.

 

I did not know that about the portable heaters. Scrap that idea, what about a esperpacher type heating systems.

[Alan de Enfield]

Thanks again Allen.

 

I did not know that about the portable heaters. Scrap that idea, what about a esperpacher type heating systems.

 

Yes - no problem if the marine version, properly installed and maintained (not the 'cheap' ex vehicle units sold on ebay)

Cost £1000+ depending on installation.

 

Ebers (and similar) do need both diesel (don't buy a petrol powered boat) and electricity to run, one of my boat has an 8Kw Eberspacher 'blown hot air'; system, this uses a continuous 10 amps so would flatten your 100Ah battery in 5 hours. You need a reliable source / supply of electricity to keep the batteries charged up.

 

The alternative type of Eber is the 'hot-water' system, this will heat radiators, however, on a small GRP boat it is highly unlikely that you will have any 'wall-space'; to fit radiators.

The hot water system is that generally used by steel narrowboats with plenty of 'walls'. on a 20 foot (and a bit ?) boat the cabin will probably be not much more than or 10 feet long in which you will need to fit a bed, a kitchen, a toilet/shower and a 'lounge'.

[hounddog]

Hogwash, I appreciate you're looking for good news right now and I hesitate to bring you anything which might not cheer you up when you most need it. However, if you have problems at the moment, just wait until you buy a cheap boat!

 

Alan has provided some wise counsel above re GRP boats in winter and some other issues. Whilst winter on a well set up Narrowboat is certainly not an unpleasant experience, you can read on here the trials and tribulations of those wintering in less well appointed vessels. A GRP boat is, imho, in a different league and, though some may manage just fine, they're pretty hard core in my book. You will, almost certainly, have mechanical or other issues to deal with, some of which have been highlighted above, and most will cost far more than you'll expect. On top of those, if you're hoping to be able to move around as much or as little as you want and ultimately stay put somewhere you like, you're quite likely to appear on the CRT enforcement radar which would, at best, mean hassle.

 

I hope that's helpful and I wish you well.

That's interesting, I have yet to read on this forum about people struggling on GRP boats in the winter, perhaps you could provide a link?

 

on the other hand I know people who do, successfully, live on GRP all the year round, a small space is easy to heat, relatively easy to improve the insulation. The lack of space and mechanical issues? well they are not unique to GRP. A can-do attitude goes a long way.

[Graham Davis]

Thank you all for your friendly advice and information.

 

I see now that it is not straight forward and could be loads of hassle. The DWP would still pay JSA to me but I would be classed as no fixed abode. I foolishly thought that I could move the boat as CCer, say every 11 days to another parish. Here in Yorkshire one does not need to go too far to be in another area classed as a different county, for example...Midfield comes under Kirklees, Halifax under calderdale and Skipton under Bradford. After that one enters Lancashire.I would only be about 15 miles from the job centre I use at the most, Rochdale in Lancashire is only 15 miles from where I live. So I was thinking area-A 11 days stay, area-B 10 days stay, area-C 12 days, area-D 5 days and then back to area A.

 

I was thinking that if I got the boat and pay license keep moving the river trust would leave me alone. For heating I could use one of those heaters that take the gas bottle in the back, I am hardy I don't have heating on in my house because I can not afford it.

 

I can do loads of jobs myself on the boat including engine service and repairs.

 

When I said about staying put, I meant if I found a job say in Lancashire, I would then look for a residential mooring.

 

It is possible that as an NFA the DWP could make you attend as often as every day! That would not suit cruising over a wide area.

 

Gas bottle heaters are a large no-no on a boat!! They cause vast amounts of condensation and are an explosion risk. Do NOT go there!!

[magictime]

I see now that it is not straight forward and could be loads of hassle. The DWP would still pay JSA to me but I would be classed as no fixed abode. I foolishly thought that I could move the boat as CCer, say every 11 days to another parish. Here in Yorkshire one does not need to go too far to be in another area classed as a different county, for example...Midfield comes under Kirklees, Halifax under calderdale and Skipton under Bradford. After that one enters Lancashire.I would only be about 15 miles from the job centre I use at the most, Rochdale in Lancashire is only 15 miles from where I live. So I was thinking area-A 11 days stay, area-B 10 days stay, area-C 12 days, area-D 5 days and then back to area A.

 

I'm not quite sure if you're suggesting that moving between different council areas would be a bad thing ("I can't be moving between different council areas all the time because that would affect my JSA claim") or a good thing ("I can easily move between different council areas all the time and so satisfy CRT that I'm genuinely CCing")?

 

If the latter, I don't think the council areas are relevant but I think you're basically right that it'd be relatively easy to 'properly' CC in the Yorkshire/Lancashire area while staying within a shortish commute of a home town. There are lots of miles of lots of different waterways that run through towns with good public transport links. We're in West Yorkshire ourselves and when we had our boat (for leisure use, not liveaboard) we used to leave it in all sorts of different places on the Leeds-Liverpool, Aire & Calder, Calder and Hebble, Rochdale etc. in between cruises and just get trains back and forth.

 

I'd be a bit wary of cruising in an A-B-C-D-A pattern; the wider and more varied a range you can cover, the better, and I'd have thought you could manage more variety than that by spending more time on different waterways. I don't know where you're based at the minute, but for instance, a cruising pattern of Todmorden - Mytholmroyd - Hebden Bridge - Sowerby Bridge - Dewsbury - Mirfield - Huddersfield - Wakefield - Castleford would take you a fair distance up and down several different waterways while staying within a smallish geographical area.

[OldGoat]

Most / many / if not all small GRP boats in the lower price range have petrol outboard engines - which do not /cannot charge batteries even a minimal lifestyle.

If it has a diesel engine it's going to be more expensive and may not have practicable battery charging capacity.

Some new folks on here - say 'I don't need much electric power' and come back later saying -

Laptop

mobile phone(s)

tv

and last

a small fridge.

 

Any or all of those need adequate charging arrangements.

[Hogwash]

Thanks for the advice and info Y`all.

 

I haveBeen looking at GRP boats in my price range and I have seen two. One has a built in wall gas heater with instant hot water boiler and out board engine. The other has no heater but a calorifier and a Volvo Penta on-board engine. Any advice please.

[Alan de Enfield]

Thanks for the advice and info Y`all.

 

I haveBeen looking at GRP boats in my price range and I have seen two. One has a built in wall gas heater with instant hot water boiler and out board engine. The other has no heater but a calorifier and a Volvo Penta on-board engine. Any advice please.

 

You are planning to CC (I believe) ?

 

1) An outboard engine will not charge your 'domestic' batteries, how will you power your lights, recharge your phone, tablet etc ?

2) An outboard is petrol powered. There are legal limits to the amount you can store.

3) Suppliers of petrol on the canals are very few and far between - you will b spending hours every couple of days searching for petrol stations and then carrying it back to the boat.

4) The requirements of the BSS for petrol powered boats are much stricter than diesel powered boats

 

The Inboard engine :

 

1) Is a Petrol ?

2) If so refer to items 2, 3 & 4 above.

3) Is this on a 'drive-leg' or on a shaft ? (Drive legs will tend to be 'too deep' for much of the canal system)

 

There is so much more to take into consideration but those are the most important question to start with.

 

There is a reason that identical boats, but one with a petrol engine and one with a diesel engine can be £5-£10000 different in price.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Alan de Enfield