WotEver Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Spoilsport. We LURVE battery questions! (The answer is always a variation on 'you're not charging them enough' ) Always. But we always have to go through the excruciating process of finding out why, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Time to return to basics - How do you charge the batteries at present. You've mentioned a 90W solar panel - but that's small and will in effect be much smaller in the winter months. Sooo - What engine / alternator do you have? MRoss mentioned charger - are you marina based? The OP actually aid she had generated 90w yesterday - her Solar installation is : Yesterday we had 3 solar panels fitted, so we've got 'great expectations' despite the 'orrible' weather on the Coventry this morning. In just 4 hours of having them fitted, they managed to generate 90W into the batteries yesterday. Not much help (I grant you) they COULD be 3x 30w or they could be 3x 270w, guess we ill never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 The OP actually aid she had generated 90w yesterday - her Solar installation is : Yesterday we had 3 solar panels fitted, so we've got 'great expectations' despite the 'orrible' weather on the Coventry this morning. In just 4 hours of having them fitted, they managed to generate 90W into the batteries yesterday. Not much help (I grant you) they COULD be 3x 30w or they could be 3x 270w, guess we ill never know. No they couldn't. 3 x 30W panels would only generate 90W with the sun vertically overhead and that never happens in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bag 'o' bones Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Threads merged and thread tidied up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 You're about the third or fourth person to do so How do you know? I only see that OP has self reported, but that was over 2 hours ago. I posted so that others wouldn't need to flood the mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bag 'o' bones Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 How do you know? I only see that OP has self reported, but that was over 2 hours ago. I posted so that others wouldn't need to flood the mods All sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 If your looking to spend around £675 then look at what other options get you. First of is the recommended Trojan T105's and similar batteries. 6 T105's at around 675ah bank size Cycle # to 50% -1600 3 Victron AGM's - 390ah bank size Cycle # to 50% - 600 So the Trojans have more capacity and more than double the cycles! If they are correctly manage and looked after. If not either type could be gone in a year or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I'm guessing the solar panels were generating 90W when she looked at the meter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 All sorted How many reports did you have? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Always. But we always have to go through the excruciating process of finding out why, too. Could it be that the OP will find remarks like that off putting. To me it suggests she is being a nuisance because she cannot layout the information you think is required. I would suggest that patiences might bring the information or maybe the thread has given her all she needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Like everybody says, get more cheap "open" batteries. If you are a liveaboard they might last a year, if they last two years then you are doing well. Keep getting cheap replacements till you have learned how to look after them, then maybe get some good ones, probably Trojans. With the money you save now by not getting the AGM's you can buy a Smartgage which is by far the best battery monitor. Open batteries will need topping up once in a while. The only good reason for getting AGM's is if access is so bad that you really can't top them up. Sealed lead acid batteries are just like "open" batteries but you can't top them up, this is like the worst of both worlds. .................Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Could it be that the OP will find remarks like that off putting. To me it suggests she is being a nuisance because she cannot layout the information you think is required. I would suggest that patiences might bring the information or maybe the thread has given her all she needs. I think WotEver said that not to put off the OP, but to express the frustration involved in answering these threads. In most cases the OP starts from the premise that the batteries are at fault and seeks support for this position, when in reality mostly, after a long sequence of questions and answers, it becomes clear that their charging regime is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j04n Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I agree with the cheap as chips brigade. Pondered and researched this one myself for hours. Just replaced ALL mine, 4 domestic bank, starter, 2 bow thruster. All were 110Ah AGM's! Must have cost a fortune! Changed starter and bow thruster batteries back to wet standard starter batteries and increased domestic bank to 6 110 Ah wet for a fraction of the cost of AGM's. Have a good charger but didnt think it was worth the risk with AGM's as it is too easy for something to go wrong and as others have said no real benefit for the expense. You should also check the wiring. Mine were really badly wired up. Positives and negative leads taken off different batteries rather than just at opposite ends of the battery bank. Charging leads on different batteries to main feed! This is bad practice as leads to uneven loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 (And often involves a long and bad-tempered diversion around the "Amps per hour/don't be pedantic we all know what it actually means" circular argument!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) I think WotEver said that not to put off the OP, but to express the frustration involved in answering these threads. In most cases the OP starts from the premise that the batteries are at fault and seeks support for this position, when in reality mostly, after a long sequence of questions and answers, it becomes clear that their charging regime is the problem. Maybe if we decide to answer posts like these we need to do so on the poster's terms and keep any frustrations to ourselves. Remember there is no requirement for members to answer any post so it is the member who is putting themselves in a frustrating position not the poster. (And often involves a long and bad-tempered diversion around the "Amps per hour/don't be pedantic we all know what it actually means" circular argument!) That can be important or it can be being just childish and if really needed maybe should be discussed elsewhere PM or another thread. Edited September 10, 2016 by Geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Maybe if we decide to answer posts like these we need to do so on the poster's terms and keep any frustrations to our selves. Remember there is no requirement for members to answer any post so it is the member who is putting themselves in a frustrating position not the poster. Yes fully agree. I wasn't supporting WotEver being shirty (if he was), just attempting to explain why he might have written it. I'm sure he'll be able to explain for himself next time he's on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 (And often involves a long and bad-tempered diversion around the "Amps per hour/don't be pedantic we all know what it actually means" circular argument!) I feel this forum has gone very "flat" over the last year, can we have the amps per hour debate again please, I used to like that one. or, we've jut had an overstay warning from cart, maybe we could have the continuous moorers thing too, that was always good. ..............Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Reviewing the original post (well, post #2 due to the way its been merged) there are two things which I find significant: 1) No mention has been made of how the batteries are charged (accepting that mention is made of solar later) 2) She has been poorly advised by a salesman trying to sell >£600 of batteries Taking 2 first, PLEASE either take the time to understand better, boat electrics; or take it on trust from those who have posted to not spend so much on batteries at this stage. Taking point 1, yes its important - vitally important - to have the charging regime in place. Without some kind of battery monitoring, all one can do is either guess (acknowledging that some member's guesses can be quite accurate, because they're educated guesses from real world experience in a similar situation), or err on the side of safety (and while this won't overcharge the batteries, it might waste eg diesel). Hence my advice to invest in some kind of battery monitoring. There just happens to be two competing camps here: Smartgauge and some kind of Ah counting device. The Smartgauge is clever and useful; the Ah counter needs a bit more background knowledge but has the advantage that it can do more stuff, specifically it can help a lot in getting the power audit done accurately. If you really do have £600 then by all means buy both types, it will give better/more accurate readings still, but there is an element of "the law of diminishing returns" there too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I feel this forum has gone very "flat" over the last year Dare I suggest you're charging regime is at fault, not the forum? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I feel this forum has gone very "flat" over the last year, can we have the amps per hour debate again please, I used to like that one. or, we've jut had an overstay warning from cart, maybe we could have the continuous moorers thing too, that was always good. ..............Dave Oh dear, I can't tell if you are being ironic or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Oh dear, I can't tell if you are being ironic or not! I think Dave set it up so I could deliver the punchline! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 We are wandering. No blame we always do it. Jennifer come back, answer a few questions and 'we' can and will help. Lets start with , Your usage (amp.hrs per day) How (alternator, amp rating..charger, amp rating) and for how long do you charge your batteries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I think WotEver said that not to put off the OP, but to express the frustration involved in answering these threads. In most cases the OP starts from the premise that the batteries are at fault and seeks support for this position, when in reality mostly, after a long sequence of questions and answers, it becomes clear that their charging regime is the problem. Indeed . No offense intended towards anyone. Yes fully agree. I wasn't supporting WotEver being shirty (if he was), just attempting to explain why he might have written it. I'm sure he'll be able to explain for himself next time he's on! I wasn't being in the slightest bit 'shirty'. Simply pointing out the fact that we will take a while to get to the root of the problem (insufficient charging) and why. It's just the way of these threads, that's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I suggest that we stop posing and wait for more input from Jennifer. Otherwise we just go around in circles. What we need answered:- Anything that lest us calculate how much electricity is used per day. This could be watts or amps for each individual item of equipment and the time in use. All non-solar methods of charging, their rated output and how long she has been running them. The solar is best ignored until such time as Jennifer fits suitable battery monitoring because its output is so variable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 I suggest that we stop posing and wait for more input from Jennifer. Otherwise we just go around in circles. What we need answered:- Anything that lest us calculate how much electricity is used per day. This could be watts or amps for each individual item of equipment and the time in use. All non-solar methods of charging, their rated output and how long she has been running them. The solar is best ignored until such time as Jennifer fits suitable battery monitoring because its output is so variable. Thanks Tony, it gave me a laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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