Can this happen easily?

[Supermalc]

I've counted 21 rungs down to roof level

 

Definately need some glue on the fingers

 

I climbed down to mine twice in Antons a few weeks ago........I was holding on tight. Remember this lock is much larger than your standard 'wide' lock.

 

 

[Machpoint005]

My answer to original question: yes, it can, but only if a potential problem is allowed to develop (usually, but not always, because of inexperience). Malcolm's comment about familiarity breeding contempt is well put. I've only been boating for about ten years, but I was glad I knew what to do recently...

 

Scenario: wide lock, Grand Union going north and descending. Over-full top pound raising the 'full' water level in lock. Control boat with centre line around bollard back onto boat, self on tiller, wife on paddles. One paddle part open, herself crosses over the bottom gates ready to raise the paddle on the other side. Edge of plate under boat's counter gets stuck in (unpointed) brickwork because yours truly pulling boat in too hard (to avoid moving about in lock). We reached an angle of no more than ten degrees (front sloping down and listing to the right).

 

A quick shout of 'drop the paddle' had the desired effect after what seemed an interminable 2 second wait. Boat thumped down onto water with no damage except one pan lid (glass). If crocks or glasses are broken, it counts as a bump!

 

I learned a lesson that day (as Stan might say).

 

(1) Make sure the lock operator knows how to drop a paddle in a hurry (she did!) and don't faff about winding them down in an emergency.

 

(2) The baseplate at the back of my boat sticks out half an inch further than you think.

 

(3) Line to control boat ==> good. Pulling it too hard ==> bad.

 

(4) Don't try to empty the lock in record time (she wasn't doing, honest!).

 

(5) In wide locks I'm not convinced that opening both bottom gate paddles makes much difference to the overall transit time, although it seems to help when getting rid of the last few hundred gallons. All a matter of hydraulics, I'm sure.

 

(6) Mantra: 'What we have here is 200-year old technology. Life was cheap, then'.

 

Not preaching, just call it an act of contrition.

 

Ian

[Nige]

Can't see how you'd not notice the rudder in the gates, the stern would have had to have been rammed up against them (also isn't the top gate also usually single - except on wide beam locks where you'd expect the boat to be on one side or another?)

 

 

L & L is a widebeam canal and the locks are double gates.

Cheers

Nige

[MartinClark]

I've just seen this news item Woman rescue from capsized canal boat :

The rudder had got caught in the lock doors which caused the boat to capsize as the water emptied from the locks

 

There is another newspaper report which gives a more plausible description of what happened:

 

"Jim Swindells, British Waterways' maintenance supervisor for the Leeds and Liverpool Canal, said the woman's husband, John, had gone to the next lock to open it at the time of the incident.

 

"He said: 'The boat drifted across and became wedged on the stone work. It had started to sink and because of the delay in her husband coming back it had taken on a lot of water.'

 

"Mr Swindells added: 'She was at the back of the boat where she was standing in the water.' "

 

Without wanting to sound preachy, I think there is a warning to us in this story. I'm sure many of us have walked ahead to get the next lock ready while a slow lock is filling or emptying, before returning to open the gates. But, however experienced the steerer is, the unexpected can happen. If something occurs, such as the boat getting hooked up on a protruding stone, there is often little the steerer can do and swift action is required from the person on the ground.

[Adam]

Hi,

Just out of intrest how deep is bath deep lock and is it deeper than tuel lane on the rochdale

 

Regards Adam

[bottle]

Do not know actual depth but have a look here (photo)

 

Edit: A rise of twenty feet originally two locks according to Mike Stevens here

Edited May 6, 2007 by bottle

[Theo]

Seriously? As in perpendicular to the gates hanging in mid-air? (Or did you mean as in 'not rolling over')

 

 

Tehe!

 

N

[MartinClark]

Do not know actual depth but have a look here (photo)

 

Edit: A rise of twenty feet originally two locks according to Mike Stevens here

I think the link to Mike Stevens should have been this one. Mike was obviously giving 20' as a round figure!

 

The depth of Bath Deep Lock is 19' 5", which puts it just behind Tuel Lane, which is 19' 8.5".

 

I was thinking of compiling a web page listing the UK's deepest canal locks, to go with my existing pages listing the longest canal tunnels and highest canal summits.

 

I am finding the information a little harder to find, however.

Does anyone have an official (not a rough) figure for the depth of:

- Somerton Deep Lock, Oxford Canal (around 12' ?)

- Holme Lock, River Trent (around 12' ?)

- Denham Deep Lock, Grand Union (11' 1" ?)

- Clayton Lock 11, Ashton Canal

- Anthony Lock 77, Rochdale Canal (figure in Nicholsons is wrong*)

- any other locks that might be contenders for such a list?

 

* Nicholsons presumably gives the pre-restoration depth. Lock 77 was extended vertically to compensate for mining subsidence in the area. See photo:

[Adam]

I think the link to Mike Stevens should have been this one. Mike was obviously giving 20' as a round figure!

 

The depth of Bath Deep Lock is 19' 5", which puts it just behind Tuel Lane, which is 19' 8.5".

 

I was thinking of compiling a web page listing the UK's deepest canal locks, to go with my existing pages listing the longest canal tunnels and highest canal summits.

 

I am finding the information a little harder to find, however.

Does anyone have an official (not a rough) figure for the depth of:

- Somerton Deep Lock, Oxford Canal (around 12' ?)

- Holme Lock, River Trent (around 12' ?)

- Denham Deep Lock, Grand Union (11' 1" ?)

- Clayton Lock 11, Ashton Canal

- Anthony Lock 77, Rochdale Canal (figure in Nicholsons is wrong*)

- any other locks that might be contenders for such a list?

 

* Nicholsons presumably gives the pre-restoration depth. Lock 77 was extended vertically to compensate for mining subsidence in the area. See photo:

 

 

Lemonroyd lock on the aire and calder towards leeds is about 14ft i think its really long aswell it takes those RIX oil tankers

 

Regards Adam

[AJLintern]

I seem to remember the deepest narrow lock is Tardebigge top lock on the Worcester & Birmingham at 14ft.

[mykaskin]

Scenario: wide lock, Grand Union going north and descending. Over-full top pound raising the 'full' water level in lock. Control boat with centre line around bollard back onto boat, self on tiller, wife on paddles. One paddle part open, herself crosses over the bottom gates ready to raise the paddle on the other side. Edge of plate under boat's counter gets stuck in (unpointed) brickwork because yours truly pulling boat in too hard (to avoid moving about in lock). We reached an angle of no more than ten degrees (front sloping down and listing to the right).

 

Ian

 

The newly restored Snakeholme lock on the Driffield Navigation can be tricky. The lock walls slope quite well, but the biggest problem are old bolts that used to hold wooden rubbing strakes. We have a flat sided boat (Birmingham Square), and so is partuculary prone to catching. If you are on board, and at the tiller, use the engine in reverse to move yourself off - but be quick about it. It happened once while I was on the roof, and pushing it away from the wall eventually freed it. It lent quite a way before it fell off the offending obstruction, but they will normally fall off eventually.

 

The morale of this story is to avoid using ropes while in locks going down. Use the engine to hold the boat somewhere away from the walls, and there wont be these problems, but always be ready for problems!

 

(6) Mantra: 'What we have here is 200-year old technology. Life was cheap, then'.

 

But the boats and cargo weren't - so time and money was spent on ensuring they were safe.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[NB Phoenix]

Scenario: wide lock, Grand Union going north and descending. Over-full top pound raising the 'full' water level in lock. Control boat with centre line around bollard back onto boat, self on tiller, wife on paddles. One paddle part open, herself crosses over the bottom gates ready to raise the paddle on the other side. Edge of plate under boat's counter gets stuck in (unpointed) brickwork because yours truly pulling boat in too hard (to avoid moving about in lock). We reached an angle of no more than ten degrees (front sloping down and listing to the right).

 

Can I get further advice please. If someone is on the tiller, and the throttle, do you need a line around a bollard to control the boat?

 

Thanks

[Adam]

Can I get further advice please. If someone is on the tiller, and the throttle, do you need a line around a bollard to control the boat?

 

Thanks

 

I dont bother it is easier to though up here (aire and calder) the locks are enourmous anyway so i just float about in the middle but even when i hop onto the calder and hebble i rarely bother narrowboats dont move mutch compared to cruisers but there harder to stop when they do

 

Regards Adam

[Machpoint005]

I still tend to use a line round when going up a wide lock, and (just to start with) when going down a wide lock. It helps prevent the boat from banging about too much: every lock is different and some have more violent water flows than others. It doesn't matter if the boat gets slewed across the lock at an artistic angle, but it's as well to have it restrained somewhat.

 

In narrow locks I never use a line, just engine (the tiller doesn't do much when you only have a couple of inches either side). Best advice of all - take it steady. The memsahib has a very gentle touch with a windlass.

 

Ian

[mykaskin]

Can I get further advice please. If someone is on the tiller, and the throttle, do you need a line around a bollard to control the boat?

 

Going down hill in most wide locks is quite safe to do so without ropes. Only if there is a very strong side wind do you need to watch what is happening - as at the top it will push you one way, and then when your roof drops below the coping stones it will be pushed the other way. If you need to get off to assist with the lock, then taking a rope ashore may be useful to get back on again. The person operating the lock may need to check with you which gate to open as sometimes it's easier to get to one side than the other. Of course, use the engine/tiller to hold the boat away from dangerous/messy/wet bits.

 

It is also possible to go up locks without ropes in well mannered wide locks. Opening the ground paddle on the boat side will hold it alongside that wall, you can open the other side, but do the last bit to the top slowly, or leave it half up. Open the gate paddle on the none boat side.

 

 

I've been boating for awhile, so if I'm the only boat in the lock, normally I do this with GU/Regents locks (with two people, my Dad, and I):

 

WARNING: Do not try this at home (or anywhere else), it is here as an example of how it can be done!!! :-)

 

Enter the lock (towpath side), the other side top gate will normally swing open, engage reverse, and push the stern of the boat accross to the other side

 

Dad closes the towpath gate

 

I stop the boat such that the bows are near the far end of the lock on the towpath side of the lock (so that the boat is across the lock), and step off with the back rope. WARNING: If you have a bow fender, ensure it is not going to snare on anything as the water level drops.

 

Put a SINGLE turn around any convient bollard, or leave the rope lose on the ground - its just there to get back on the boat. Ensure there is good length between the boat and bollard so if it does get trapped you will have time to shut the paddles, or fix the problem. NEVER tie a boat up going down hill.

 

Close the top gate, and any paddles.

 

Open the bottom paddle - hopefully by this time the boat has just come to rest on the bottom gates, if not then lift the paddle slowly until it does - Dad will usually beat me to the bottom gates, so the water flow will help keep the bow at the towpath side - it's a pain when it goes the wrong side, hence the rope.

 

Run back to the rope, pull the stern in if nessesary (usually not needed, as when it nessles upto the bottom gates it pushes the back towards my side again

 

Jump onboard (with the rope) before it goes down to far

 

Normally I pull the boat back a little to stop it getting trapped in the corner, but keep the bow behind the mitre until I know which gate Dad is going to open. This way it holds the bow on the towpath side of the lock.

 

Dad closes the other side paddle just before level (timing this right is an art), and goes back across to open the towpath side bottom gate, by this time I am alongside that wall pallellel, or at least my bow is the right side of the lock - pulling back a little more may be needed to get the gate open.

 

I trundle out slowly so as not to move the other gate (easier with the heavier bottom gates), and pick my Dad up after he's closed the gate.

 

 

Going up:

 

GU and some other locks are designed to allow someone to step off with a rope upon entering the bottom of a lock. When single handing or when trying to share the work more, I step off with the centre rope, allow the boat to drift into the lock (getting the speed right, timing, and handling of the rope is tricky - ensure the rope is not going to get trapped on any part of the gate). I strap the boat to a stop on the bollard near the bottom gate (sometimes there isn't one, improvise quickly!). Take the line forwards to a centre bollard (if there is one), and using a tugmans/lightermans hitch tie it off. Then operate the lock normally.

 

On leaving the lock, it is possible even single handing to close the gates - there is no excuse. Stop the boat, and take the back rope ashore with you, and shut the gate, easy to do going up or down.

 

 

Like I said earlier, be careful. If you want to try any of these ideas out, do them slowly, learn the pit falls for your boat and lock designs.

 

Above all, have fun!

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[MartinClark]

Lemonroyd lock on the aire and calder towards leeds is about 14ft i think its really long aswell it takes those RIX oil tankers

Yes, of course, thanks. It replaced two locks. Nicholsons puts it as 13' 6".

 

I seem to remember the deepest narrow lock is Tardebigge top lock on the Worcester & Birmingham at 14ft.

Thanks for reminding me of that one. Nicholsons claims it is 11ft. Can that be right?

 

Any more locks in the running?

Edited May 6, 2007 by MartinClark

[Adam]

Yes, of course, thanks. It replaced two locks. Nicholsons puts it as 13' 6".

Thanks for reminding me of that one. Nicholsons claims it is 11". Can that be right?

 

Any more locks in the running?

 

To be honest i wouldnt trust that at beal lock on the river aire (selby) it says that is 8foot but is only about 1ft

 

Oh ye and the weir looks about 4ft its all really strange.

 

Lemonroyd looks bigger than bath deep but its maybe just the length and width of it that makes it look bigger

 

Depends on river levels aswell of course

 

Regards Adam

[slowcoach]

lemonroyd is near enough 14 foot deep and over 100 foot long as rix tankers all go through with ease, and is more than 14 foot wide it replaced another lock they made both locks into one big one-lemonroyd when the open cast mine burst its banks and the river and canal merged , they removed the other lock and made this oen big one all the land is flat so there is only the canal now just loand at the other side where all thr mahcinery is still buried under after the construction before and after it burst its banks

[blackrose]

The morale of this story is to avoid using ropes while in locks going down. Use the engine to hold the boat somewhere away from the walls, and there wont be these problems, but always be ready for problems!

 

A lot of this sort of advice (and I've just chosen one at random), assumes that the boat has crew working the lock as well as someone at the helm. The majority of the time I'm moving a 30 tonne 57' x 12', boat single handed. When I'm working a lock there's nobody at the tiller or throttle and I'm certainly not going to do anything without a rope. Also in manned Thames locks you're generally not allowed to ascend or desend without ropes.

Edited May 7, 2007 by blackrose

[SteveE]

I think I would have said " OH PUCK " too

 

 

Were they going through the lock backwards?

SteveE

[Sir Nibble]

Bath deep lock draws a LOT of water and frequently dries out the top pound leaving boaters, (like Baldock) aground or unable to leave the lock. Fortunately, the next lock up is close by and you don't have to walk far to let some water down. Oddly, some folk, even when it is their boat aground seem to feel that it is dead naughty to let water down through the lock.

[grunders]

The one time that I remember something going wrong in a lock was descending a wide lock somewhere with the narrowboat daigonally across the lock. The top rubbing strake at the bow comes out about 1.5" from the hull and that caught on the top of the lock wall. Thankfully, paddles were dropped and boat 'fell off' the edge of the wall suffering no damage except for throwing things off surfaces in the galley if I remember correctly.

[WJM]

I'm certainly not going to do anything without a rope"

 

 

I have a narrow boat and in narrow locks i never bother with ropes - just leave it on tick over pushing against the gate, that way it cant move. I cant do that solo in a broad lock because of the lateral movement, I need a centre line to keep it against the wall - but I would have thought if I had a broad boat (or a butty!) I would not bother with a rope?

[Adam]

Think how much lemonroyd takes its 14ft deep by 200ft long by 25ft wide i know the width because my boat is 22ft and can easily spin round inside it

 

How much water would that take

Edited May 8, 2007 by Adam

[Moley]

14ft deep by 200ft long by 25ft wide. How much water would that take?

 

70,000 cubic feet = 436,030 gallons