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Pinkatpole

Rudder Stock on Mike Christian / Wilson Tyler

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Anyone know the make up of this rudder stock

 

Swan neck appears welded to the rudder shaft

 

There are no bolts on the top, just a circular casing

 

There is a grease point on the circular casing but it does not appear to make a lot of difference

 

Mine has always been a relatively heavy and has tightened up more as the boat has had little use over the last year or so

 

Moving the rudder has now become a built in gym

 

Boat is out of the water next week for blacking, so I have the opportunity to try and rectify the tightness

 

 

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Mines a Tyler Wilson and has a similar set up. I came back to the boat after the winter to find I had to use my hip as well as arm to turn the tiller. It was really stiff. Onboard gym just about sums it up.

 

Making a few enquiries I was told that at the top end there is just a bronze bush. No roller bearing or ball race involved. There's no grease nipple so I bought a can of three in one oil and carefully drizzled it down the crack between the rudder and the collar.

 

Within 24 hours steering effort was back to normal.

 

I am told that the rudder blade and stock is all one piece, welded together after fitting to the boat. It avoids any slop in the tiller but sounds like a maintenance nightmare.

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Mines a Tyler Wilson and has a similar set up. I came back to the boat after the winter to find I had to use my hip as well as arm to turn the tiller. It was really stiff. Onboard gym just about sums it up.

 

Making a few enquiries I was told that at the top end there is just a bronze bush. No roller bearing or ball race involved. There's no grease nipple so I bought a can of three in one oil and carefully drizzled it down the crack between the rudder and the collar.

 

Within 24 hours steering effort was back to normal.

 

I am told that the rudder blade and stock is all one piece, welded together after fitting to the boat. It avoids any slop in the tiller but sounds like a maintenance nightmare.

Thanks for this information. Our boat is a Jonathon Wilson hull and has the same arrangement. I too was puzzled about the presence of a bearing and what maintenance/lubrication might be required.

Thanks

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Dreadful practice if the swan neck cannot be removed. I'm underwhelmed!

 

Dave

 

It's current practice with Tim Tyler shells.

 

I'm not sure if Braidbar will have one at Crick this year.

 

Our boat was built in 1999 and previously had a two part shaft but it became so worn that the two half's separated after hitting something submerged and the bottom half sank to the canal bed.

 

The original owner wasn't impressed with this so asked Tylers to fit a one part shaft. It feels really solid. and the skeg end is quality too. I'm not planning on cilling the boat but don't think the rudder would come to much harm if I did. The only way to take it apart is with a welding torch but I think I would only have myself to blame if the need arose.

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Although it looks slightly different I think it is the same arrangment. I think this has happened in the past as well. If I remember correctly I placed a jack underneath the arm block and popped it slightly before soaking in oil. In my pictures and chesire cats theres a small hole in the collar. Any ideas. I have inserted a grease nipple in there and greased but had no effect. Assuming that must be to the outside of the bush

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Probably space there to cut the shaft and fit a sleeve/clamp/coupling of some sort if the need eventually arises. A couple of easily removable blobs of weld will prevent movement. Also if you have to get at the bottom bearing just hacksaw the skeg off then sandwich it together with two plates and bolt through, I've done it, keep the drill cool and sharp, easy.

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What looks like a hole in the collar is in fact an allen key socketed set screw. There are two of them 180 degrees apart. I tried loosening them in the expectation that they are holding the top bush in place and I would be able to prise the bronze bush upwards and give it some grease. Unfortunately the screw didn't want to move, and ultimately the socket holes started to round off despite using decent quality allen keys

 

Because the three in one oil worked I decided to leave it for now but I will drill and tap in the future and replace with stainless screws and possibly a grease nipple too.

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If there's no grease nipple to lubricate the bush Wilsons should have used Oilite bushes, bushes that are porous, usually phosphor bronze that have been marinated in hot oil or hot fluid grease for some time to absorb it before fitting. If they are Oilite bushes I'd run warm oil down in the hope that they'll absorb it.

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The grease would only get to the outside of the bush unless you drill through the bush aswell.

 

Neil

 

Doh! Thankyou. I'd overlooked that fact. I'm sure I would've realised eventually.

 

In light of what Bizzard said I think I'll use masking tape to build a dam wall and fill the pond with thin oil.

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I don't know why bearings are put in the collar and/or the skeg. Everything needs to be nice and worn and loose, so when the inevitable day comes that the rudder jumps out of the skeg either through bouncing on something on the bottom or catching on a sill, you can get it back into the cup in the skeg, even if it has got slightly bent! I would suggest that if a surveyor tells you otherwise, he's not had first-hand experience of dealing with such a problem! (That's opened a can of worms..........!)

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I think I will try the same. Circular dam but with blue tac. Should be able to contain quite a reservoir.

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I don't know why bearings are put in the collar and/or the skeg. Everything needs to be nice and worn and loose, so when the inevitable day comes that the rudder jumps out of the skeg either through bouncing on something on the bottom or catching on a sill, you can get it back into the cup in the skeg, even if it has got slightly bent! I would suggest that if a surveyor tells you otherwise, he's not had first-hand experience of dealing with such a problem! (That's opened a can of worms..........!)

Hmmm yes, but, its so nice to steer a boat that doesn't have a huge amount of slop and chatter at the tiller, drove an old Bedford TK for a while, 20 degrees of play port and starboard, sawing away at the wheel trying to keep it in a straight line, absolutely exhausting.

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No bearing as such on ours, a " top hat" arrangement held by Allen screws central to the rudder tube. There is a spiral groove in the rudder stock which follows a track from a grease nipple situated in the bolt securing the swan neck to the rudder stock. No chatter, easy to lubricate with s few strokes of the grease gun, though for much of the time a brass finial is screwed into the grease nipple thread. Archie will understand! Quality engineering from Norton Canes.

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