Off The Cut - CRT and evictions

[Robbo]

The problem I see it is that we (as boaters) don't want to encourage non boaters on to the waterways who see boats as just a home and a cheaper way to live in a certain area (like London and other major cities). To discourage these non boaters who bring nothing to the waterways you need to discourage them and enforcement of not staying in an place for 14 days and making a continuous journey is a very good way of doing so.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Robbo

[Sir Nibble]

A boat is licensed either with or without a home mooring. It is important to remember that an unlicensed boat by definition falls into neither category.

[FadeToScarlet]

A boat is licensed either with or without a home mooring. It is important to remember that an unlicensed boat by definition falls into neither category.

I don't think it can be that clear cut, because your home mooring could be off CRT waters or be one of those few offline basins that do not require a licence.

[BMC problems]

You write a clear and logical argument which is difficult (but not impossible) to refute. Some who disagree with your logic, but are incapable (or unwilling) of a logical rebuttal, decide to employ argumentum ad hominem. Which is why you are labelled a bigot and jealous. But then you already knew that! :-)

He called himself bigoted and jealous : what does that make you?

The problem I see it is that we (as boaters) don't want to encourage non boaters on to the waterways who see boats as just a home and a cheaper way to live in a certain area (like London and other major cities). To discourage these non boaters who bring nothing to the waterways you need to discourage them and enforcement of not staying in an place for 14 days and making a continuous journey is a very good way of doing so.

Unfortunately for them one is a legal requirement and one isn't.

[Robbo]

He called himself bigoted and jealous : what does that make you?

 

Unfortunately for them one is a legal requirement and one isn't.

You mean unfortunately for true boaters one is a legal requirement and one isn't.

[BMC problems]

You mean unfortunately for true boaters one is a legal requirement and one isn't.

I think it's unfortunate for all boaters if the body with authority starts enforcing something it has no legal right to enforce.

 

Feel free to disagree.

[Robbo]

I think it's unfortunate for all boaters if the body with authority starts enforcing something it has no legal right to enforce.

Feel free to disagree.

I think it's unfortunate that non boaters use boats as cheap homes and start stamping you have no legal right to enforce and spoiling it for the rest of the boaters that had and have no issues. I also think it's unfortunate that true boaters who have historically been under the radar now think that the enforcement now is a bad thing for the boaters as a whole, I see these boaters as short sighted to what could happen in the years to come if CRT didnt enforce. Edited April 30, 2016 by Robbo

[BMC problems]

I think it's unfortunate that non boaters use boats as cheap homes and start stamping you have no legal right to enforce and spoiling it for the rest of the boaters that had and have no issues.

non-boaters? you were talking sense until that point. All the people in this film are boaters. That you don't agree with them doesn't make that untrue.

[costalot]

He called himself bigoted and jealous : what does that make you?

 

 

I think you missed post 219. I'm interested in the logic of the argument rather than the involved personalities.

[Witchword]

I think it's unfortunate that non boaters use boats as cheap homes and start stamping you have no legal right to enforce and spoiling it for the rest of the boaters that had and have no issues. I also think it's unfortunate that true boaters who have historically been under the radar now think that the enforcement now is a bad thing for the boaters as a whole, I see these boaters as short sighted to what could happen in the years to come if CRT didnt enforce.

What makes someone a "boater" or a "non-boater"? I have to say your post sounds like prejudice; just substitute in "black" or "gypsy" for "non-boater" and "proper" or "white" for "boater" and it reads like an argument for vetting people to see if they're worthy or not in your opinion of living on a boat.

 

ETA I am not throwing around charges of racism. Perhaps I should have said that the post sounded like one of those "not OUR sort of people" forms of prejudice, rather than using the examples I did.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Witchword

[Robbo]

non-boaters? you were talking sense until that point. All the people in this film are boaters. That you don't agree with them doesn't make that untrue.

Thats one example of the short sightness. How would you if CRT discourage the non-boaters from seeing the canals as cheap housing whilst still making it affordable?

[dogless]

For 20 years we wanted to live on a boat.

Work and family commitments made this impracticable, coupled with being unable to afford to.

Eventually we reached a point where we could achieve our dream.

We now cruise 9 months a year, and take a mooring for three months.

 

I'm sure this is a similar story to most of you.

It's very sad that young children, work and family ties get in the way of our dreams, but that's life.

 

It is no ones responsibility but ones own to create a life style that is compatible with ones own circumstances.

 

The circular arguments seem pointless. One has to accept realities or become very bitter and dispirited.

 

I always wanted to be a billionaire, but I've had to accept it's unlikely.....unless anyone out there would care to help out

 

Rog

[Robbo]

What makes someone a "boater" or a "non-boater"? I have to say your post sounds like prejudice; just substitute in "black" or "gypsy" for "non-boater" and "proper" or "white" for "boater" and it reads like an argument for vetting people to see if they're worthy or not in your opinion of living on a boat.

A non-boater is someone who just lives on a boat only for its cheapness. I want boaters on the canals, not people just living on boats because it's cheap.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Robbo

[Witchword]

A non-boater is someone who just lives on a boat only for its cheapness. I want boaters on the canals, not people just living on boats because it's cheap.

But what difference does it make? As long as no-one is causing harm to others or to their environment, what's the difference? And what if the lower cost of living on a boat, compared to a house or flat, makes it attractive enough to overcome its disadvantages enough to make it a tipping point- but the person also enjoys cruising and being on the boat for its own sake?

Edited April 30, 2016 by Witchword

[MtB]

But what difference does it make? As long as no-one is causing harm to others or to their environment, what's the difference? And what if the lower cost of living on a boat, compared to a house or flat, makes it attractive enough to overcome its disadvantages enough to make it a tipping point- but the person also enjoys cruising and being on the boat for its own sake?

 

 

The difference lies in the longer game. Agreed, one single boater CMing causes no harm.

 

But sooner or later, others see the advantage and pitch up too. Eventually a handy area is filled with static boaters each individually causing no harm, but collectively they have stuffed the canal. And all the time, the boaters nearby who play the game and pay for a home mooring feel faintly like idiots for paying for a mooring instead of claiming their own bit of free towpath too.

[Robbo]

But what difference does it make? As long as no-one is causing harm to others or to their environment, what's the difference? And what if the lower cost of living on a boat, compared to a house or flat, makes it attractive enough to overcome its disadvantages enough to make it a tipping point- but the person also enjoys cruising and being on the boat for its own sake?

 

The difference is it will cause harm to the person that does enjoy cruising and being on the boat for its own sake with the lack of mooring opportunities especially in busy areas. Edited April 30, 2016 by Robbo

[onionbargee]

If you don't like the rules don't join the club.

And which other club controls the vast majority of canals and rivers ?

[onionbargee]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I'll try again, as far as possible using words with only one syllable.

Some people live on their boats and continually cruise. They have a licence, don't need a home mooring, and so don't pay for one. This is a good thing.

Some people want to stay in the same place for one reason or another, and live on their boats. They rent a mooring. They have a licence and, if they need one, a mooring permit. This too is a good thing.

Some people want to stay in the same place, and do, and don't want to pay for a mooring, so they don't, though they could (though it might be a struggle or they might have to move somewhere slightly less convenient). But they have a licence. This is a con and therefore not a good thing.

Some people just want somewhere to live, because for one reason or another they are homeless. They can't afford either a licence or a mooring, but have got hold of a boat and live on it. This is a different problem, because people have to live somewhere. It is not the same problem as number three above, because if you put people on the street (or the towpath) ultimately they die. This then moves into a political matter, not a CRT one.

But the last case ones tend to cause less trouble than the third case, because it is entirely in their interests to stay under the radar, out of the way and out of trouble.

I'm very sorry if this makes me a bigot racked by jealousy, though I'm not sure who I'm supposed to be jealous of or who I'm bigoted against.

Major Misunderstanding.( see Viz)

[Alan de Enfield]

And which other club controls the vast majority of canals and rivers ?

 

C&RT 'control' some 2929Km of inland waterways (rivers & canals)

Total Inland waterways controlled by AINA members = 5658 km

 

Total boats registered with AINA member 88,000

Boats registered with C&RT (approximately) 30,000

[MtB]

And which other club controls the vast majority of canals and rivers ?

 

 

Nobody is forced to buy a boat at all if they don't intend to abide by the rules.

[Witchword]

No, but the problem isn't the rules, nobody I've seen or heard has argued against the rules or tried to protest their existence. The problem is the variable interpretation of the rules by the ref and changing the rules while the ball's in play, not to mention the sanctions being handed out which go beyond the powers granted in the original rule book.

[BMC problems]

 

 

The difference lies in the longer game. Agreed, one single boater CMing causes no harm.

 

But sooner or later, others see the advantage and pitch up too. Eventually a handy area is filled with static boaters each individually causing no harm, but collectively they have stuffed the canal. And all the time, the boaters nearby who play the game and pay for a home mooring feel faintly like idiots for paying for a mooring instead of claiming their own bit of free towpath too.

Easy argument but where's your data to back this up? for instance London, popular with boaters, where's the empty marinas?

[MtB]

Which rules are being changed by the ref then?

 

And what sanctions are being handed out beyond their powers? Given a court rubber stamps all evictions?

[Robbo]

No, but the problem isn't the rules, nobody I've seen or heard has argued against the rules or tried to protest their existence. The problem is the variable interpretation of the rules by the ref and changing the rules while the ball's in play, not to mention the sanctions being handed out which go beyond the powers granted in the original rule book.

That's what you get when you have vague rules. One person interpretates it different to another.

[BMC problems]

Thats one example of the short sightness. How would you if CRT discourage the non-boaters from seeing the canals as cheap housing whilst still making it affordable?

you're moving your goalposts ( do you work for CRT? oh, no I see you've got a boat ) although the new ground is no less firm.

 

1. this topic is about the film Off the Cut. Would you like to list all the non-boaters in it?

 

2. this group sorts itself out, one winter, cheap housing people leave, those who grow to love the canals stay.

 

3. interesting that I would have you as one of those who would argue boating is not cheaper than a house, am I wrong?